Written by: Chad Soon (choppinbroccoli)

Chad Soon: Herb, you were one of the finest hockey players of your generation. Many have attested to this fact, including Hall-of-Famers such as Red Storey and Jean Beliveau. Why didn’t you play in the NHL?

Herb Carnegie: The simple answer is that I came along and they tell me I came too soon, because of my colour. There was this thing called the colour bar, and I would say that’s why, plain and simple.

Chad: How do you know you were good enough?

Herb: You know what you do on the ice. You know how you stand up against the other players when you’re in the game – how you can stickhandle, how you shoot, how you score. Your own body actions tell you whether you’re good enough or not.

Chad: What was the highlight of your hockey career?

Herb: Any time you’re on a championship team, I suppose that becomes the highlight because it’s a team accomplishment. That came very early to me. I was on the Junior B team of Northern Vocational School when we beat the Barrie Colts in the 1936-37 season and we won the Ontario Junior B Championship. I was seventeen and I don’t think you could have a more exhilarating feeling than at that particular time.

Chad: After being effectively barred from the NHL, how much pain and anger is left in you today?

Herb: I’ve tried to leave the pain and anger behind me, but when you can look back over the years, knowing that you were denied the opportunity to participate with the best players, the sadness within that story does not go away, particularly when you hear some of the fellows, like Jean Beliveau and Punch Imlach – these were my peers, shall I say, with the Quebec Aces, and lovely people to know – and they had their time in the big league and you’re wondering what it would be like for you to be there.

Chad: Would hockey be the best game you can name?

Herb: Without question I would say that hockey is by far the best game, because it involves teamwork and great competition and setting up plays….Teamwork is something that we need all through our lives, and to learn it at a young age…I recommend it to the girls and boys. And, of course, seeing the girls play now – I think that’s a real plus for hockey.

Chad: Many people don’t know that you were also an ace golfer. There was a time when you were barred from golf clubs because of your colour. Nevertheless, you went on to win back-to-back Canadian Senior Golf Championships. Would it be a tough call for you: Stanley Cup or Green Jacket?

Herb: I really don’t know. The difference between the two is having the Green Jacket is something you can say, “I did it.” You’re not necessarily a team, unless it’s your caddie and the individuals who helped you learn the game…but I like hockey because of the team aspect of it – it’s a ‘we’ game and every person is so important in hockey. Nevertheless, the thrill of having a Green Jacket would be ideal.

Chad: You’ve received the Order of Canada, among many other awards, for your social activism. What is your Future Aces program about? How successful do you feel it has been?

Herb: I point to attitude as our most important value, because I believe that attitude directs our behaviour. It’s up to each one of us to have a strong and positive attitude to accomplish what we feel is important to ourselves and to other people. I have a world vision that some day nations will try to communicate with one another to minimize our wars. The (Future Aces) Creed is saying: try to communicate with one another, listen to one another, consider what you’re doing to or what you’re doing for somebody else. Help one another. That’s what we need. I know it’s going to take probably millions of years to heal, but nevertheless we must plant the right seed now, so that it can grow.

Chad: Recently, at the 1967 Leafs Anniversary Show, you were reunited with your Quebec Aces teammate, Jean Beliveau. It was a touching moment. Could you share what words you exchanged? What do two hockey legends, ex-teammates, talk about when they get back together?

Herb: (Laughs) Well, it’s sort of: “You remember that night in Quebec when we met and hadn’t seen each other for twenty-some years – how nice it was to be in the same arena where we had so many wonderful games? And here we are back in the same place, not as spry as we used to be. We’re having a great time.”

Chad: Your first hockey card was in the 1951-52 Laval Dairy set. Was getting your first hockey card significant for you at all? When did you find out you had a card?

Herb: Two or three years later, I think. Someone wrote me a letter and was asking me something, but I don’t really recall the details.

Chad: How do you feel about the cards In The Game has made of you recently? (Scan of Card Here)

Herb: I think that it’s certainly nice to have a card out there and to be recognized as one of the coloured players that played the game of hockey with a respectable record. Every now and then you’ll get a note in the mail asking for a card or asking for some information about the card and feeling pleased that the holder of the card is speaking through the mail to “a legend of the game.” This is, shall we say…Would you call it an heirloom? (laughs) Now and then somebody will say, “Oh, I got one of your cards.” “Can I have one too? Do you got any more?” (laughs again)

Chad: Was Charlie Conacher was one of your idols growing up?

Herb: I could say yes, because when Charlie Conacher was playing great hockey for the Toronto Maple Leafs, my brother, Ossie, and I were playing hockey on our side driveway, and he was Charlie Conacher and I was Joe Primeau….If you can imagine these two little kids of colour being these big white guys and playing for the Maple Leafs.

Chad: What did you make of getting a Conacher glove card as a present? (Scan of Card Here)

Herb: You’re surprised, you’re saying: this is from the big man I know who played golf and hockey? It was fun. It’s sort of exciting having a little bit of history.

Chad: What memorabilia have you kept from your playing days? Did you keep any of your old jerseys, sticks, skates?

Herb: No, I don’t recall doing that.

Chad: How would you feel about your own memorabilia being put into cards, assuming you were compensated fairly?

Herb: I have such a love for the game that I think I would be pleased to know that there are bits and pieces of me still out there in the form of clothing or something from the game and this is what Carnegie used.

Chad: How would you feel about some of your memorabilia being displayed in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Herb: Oh, that would be an interesting development, if that ever came to pass.

Chad: Blindness is a challenge you now have to deal with. It took about five hours, spread over a few evenings, to sign three hundred stickers for In The Game. What was that experience like? Would you do it again?

Herb: Depending on what the organization or person wanted the information for would be a consideration now probably more so because of the blindness where it’s a difficult process to go through. I cannot see any area of definition at all. Everything has to be done by feel. It’s getting a little more tiring now to do in great numbers.

Chad: I remember pretty clearly the concentration that was required of you to do that. We were using a paperclip (to outline the sticker) and you had to feel the paperclip; we had to position you pen….

Herb: And try to make my writing understandable! (laughs) That was a tiring exercise.

Chad: When people meet you, they are invariably lifted by your extraordinary energy, purpose, and optimism. I’ve seen people moved to tears. You’re eighty-seven years old. What drives you still?

Herb: My concern is my helping someone to reach his or her goal….It’s nice to help somebody if you can. I think probably that’s why I do it.