Local Card shows and the Economy

[dksportz8]

gang, I did this show in Chantilly, VA this past weekend (Friday thru Sunday) and it SUCKED. I paid $225 for 3 days and I made $135.

Results, I lost inventory (personal as well as inventory) and didn't even make my money back from table fees. The shows I've done the last 6 months have been horrible!

I'm wasting my time making deals and trying to sell cards for even 3% profit but the economy is bad I think and will it ever get better. I'm quitting shows for awhile and will try to do eBay but I haven't sold anything in months.

The hobby really sucks and the products are getting cheaper and cheaper. The only dealers making money is selling Game-used and Autos for $2.00 each and rcs, singles, inserts for $0.25 each

Is the money only with small time cards now? What about the big cards and rookies and patches and all!

This hobby is hurting my pockets. I do it for fun cuz I'm a sports fan but the business side just isn't worth it anymore.

I should go to selling Yu-Gi-Oh! or Pokémon or something cuz sportscards just isn't like it used to be!!!

 

[chakhae1]

you need to spend money to make money. granted card shows aren't nearly as popular as they were 10 years ago, but here in toronto there is a monthly one and everyone does relatively well there. if you do your work, you will make money. plus the hobby shouldn't be about just making money and it needs to be more about what you said at the end. the joy and fun of the hobby..

 

[RLewisH]

I agree with chakhae1, it's all about having fun, although money is nice!

 

[snowrider]

So....what does that tell you?

That's the stuff I'm looking for at shows, I spend on it when I find it too. Give the people what they want and prosper.

The only dealers making money is selling Game-used and Autos for $2.00 each and rcs, singles, inserts for $0.25 each

 

[Amazing Heroes]

I hate to comment on posts like this because I always get ripped. I make my living selling cards and comics. Collectors just don't want to let anyone make a living. Packs are to high. Box's are to high. Supply's are to high. They want cheaper packs but then don't support the low end brands because there is no BANG for there buck. The sad fact is that there are not many collectors left. Everyone is a investor. They want to buy a box for under cost, pull a $1000 card they can flip for $400 on eBay. Collecting actually has nothing to do with value. I have plenty of set's and singles in my permanent collection that book very low but I just love the look of them. (Yes, I still have a personal collection) Sorry for the rant but I hear people talk some days and I just think to myself "What enjoyment are these people actually getting from there hobby?"
Steve
Amazing Heroes

 

[tiger tiger]

IMO, ebay has been both good and bad to the hobby, or at least changed the way that collectors/dealers do business.

For sellers, you can find more buyers for your cards and sell more quickly and for more money. But there's more competition.

For buyers, there's more selection and availability for cards you want, so you can get cards cheaper. But for hot cards, you'll have more competition.

IMO, the nature of the hobby is pretty much hype, impulse, and mob mentality. It's all about the latest and greatest releases, and which players are in high demand/popluar. Why else would a Crosby non-rookie auto card cost me just as much as a Gretzky or Orr auto?

it's turned into a speculator's market. For cards that I want, I wait for the hype to die down. I don't have to have the card right away, and I know sooner or later what I'm looking for will surface. Chances are other collectors have moved onto something else and the demand for that card is less, so I get it for less. Sometimes it sellers that flood the market and eventually drive the price down.

And yes, the majority of collectors are now in it for the money (if not only to feed their own PC's).

From an investment POV, sometimes I wonder if anybody really makes any money. Unless you get lucky and get the monster pull, I can't see how you re-coup your costs. Even if you make money on one card, you throw that money back in for another chance for some great pull. Eventually you get a dead box and the profit is gone.

That's why I just collect for my PC and for fun.

 

[snowrider]

Won't argue the numbers, because I agree that there is a lower "collector" ratio these days, but part of that is dealers at shows not showing up with any but their "case worthy" cards for so long.

It's turning around a bit, I have seen more singles boxes lately, guess time will tell...

The sad fact is that there are not many collectors left.

 

[89chinook]

The only dealers making money is selling Game-used and Autos for $2.00 each and rcs, singles, inserts for $0.25 each

I hear you....

So....what does that tell you?

That's the stuff I'm looking for at shows, I spend on it when I find it too. Give the people what they want and prosper.

That's what I'm talking about...

I hate to comment on posts like this because I always get ripped. I make my living selling cards and comics. Collectors just don't want to let anyone make a living. Packs are to high. Box's are to high. Supply's are to high. They want cheaper packs but then don't support the low end brands because there is no BANG for there buck. The sad fact is that there are not many collectors left. Everyone is a investor. They want to buy a box for under cost, pull a $1000 card they can flip for $400 on eBay. Collecting actually has nothing to do with value. I have plenty of set's and singles in my permanent collection that book very low but I just love the look of them. (Yes, I still have a personal collection) Sorry for the rant but I hear people talk some days and I just think to myself "What enjoyment are these people actually getting from there hobby?"
Steve
Amazing Heroes

Well said Steve...

I was just talking about this with Darren at MLS the other day because I was whining about not being able to complete my sets because no one was bringing base or inserts to trader nights. Everyone is just bringing their high end stuff, which I have non of.
The last big card show I went to last year, I left disappointed because of the lack of base and inserts available. With all those tables set up I had my 4 page want list at the ready and found 1 seller that had base and inserts for me to look through and 1 other seller that had inserts for me. Damn near everyone elese only had jerseys/patches and autos. (Most over Priced.)
Yes I realize there are people who spend hundreds even thousands on cards, but I believe those are the investor types not the collectors. I for one collect a very hard guy to collect and refuse to pay the stupid prices some people ask for some of his cards.
I collect because it's fun to look at my collection as a whole and to be able to flip through it and admire some of the great individual cards I've aquired. I'm not in this as an investment nor am I planning my retirement around what I can get for my set.
As I said to a friend earlier to, "I have 3 years left until retirement and then maybe I'll get serious about collecting cards."
Until then...

"If you're not having fun and enjoying what you're doing. Then why are you doing it?"

A simple quote I like to live by.
:beer:
Dan V.

 

[parco10]

being a set collector i collect everything in the set both the high end and the low end but the sad thing is i have trouble finding the low end in card stores/dealers most don't even carry base anymore. i realise you don't get rich off of base but when i am in the store buying the base i need for my set i gaurantee i will leave with some wax, some supplies and if the price is reasonable, some singles. much to my wifes dismay lol.

 

[hawkeenut]

I must be one of the few, as I always take base to the shows. That being said you can only carry so much and display so much, so I only bring the present year's singles. If anyone is looking for older I usually give them my email address and they can send me their list and I can bring them to the next show. As a dealer you just can't bring everything, but I try LOL!!!

 

[snowrider]

I can see you might not be able to bring everything to a show, but I've never understood the guy who when I ask - "hey do you have any older hockey inserts?" - replies "I have a ton of that at home but don't bring it with me" - and then doesn't have anything the next time in that stuff either.

Geez - a potential customer just told you what they want - you have it - and basically you are taking the stance that you don't give a hoot and are going to continue standing there not selling anything, and griping you don't make any money. That's what I don't get these days...

I must be one of the few, as I always take base to the shows. That being said you can only carry so much and display so much, so I only bring the present year's singles.

 

[FrankToronto]

I see that the OP started this thread back in July. Curious to know if you've seen a change at shows in the US since?

As for our show here in Toronto, there doesn't seem to have been much of a negative effect due to the ecomony. Albeit, the impact hasn't been as negative in Canada as in the US and I do think that we've reaped a lot of benefit from the efforts we've put into the show over the past year.

As for the talk about what dealers bring to the show... you're right. Dealers need to anticipate what collectors are looking for instead of sitting on what they consider to be gold. Our show is large enough that some dealers have done well by differentiating themselves in what they carry or they carry similar stuff, but pay close attention to what collectors are looking for.

At the end of the day, we have a good show that attracts collectors of all kinds from serious to casual, a variety of budgets, and a variety of collecting interests. The dealers that don't meet their needs simply will find themselves not able to continue setting up at our show.

 

[truffleshuffle]

I hate to comment on posts like this because I always get ripped. I make my living selling cards and comics. Collectors just don't want to let anyone make a living. Packs are to high. Box's are to high. Supply's are to high. They want cheaper packs but then don't support the low end brands because there is no BANG for there buck. The sad fact is that there are not many collectors left. Everyone is a investor. They want to buy a box for under cost, pull a $1000 card they can flip for $400 on eBay. Collecting actually has nothing to do with value. I have plenty of set's and singles in my permanent collection that book very low but I just love the look of them. (Yes, I still have a personal collection) Sorry for the rant but I hear people talk some days and I just think to myself "What enjoyment are these people actually getting from there hobby?"
Steve
Amazing Heroes

How do collectors not want anyone to make a living because they don;t like the prices of what the boxes,packs and supply's have gotten? I mean as a collector I know that not every box is going to have a big card in it but I can;t beive they have boxes in the 500 range that are hand packed that people pull no name players out of. Its not that they don;t want sellers to make a living thay just don;t want to get ripped off in the prossess. Just look at what upper deck did. They took there high dollar hand packed boxes to be busted on beckett video and guess which cards they pull. The two big 1/1 chase cards where the collectors cant even have a chance at pulling. To me though they took the collecting away from the avarage collector when the started charging an arm and a leg for all of this stuff specialy in this econemy.

 

[mrmantlecollector]

ive never sold at card shows. but attend every time there in my area. still think this is the best way to buy. but your proably right thats it not good for dealers. you have 20 to 60 dealers all trying to sell the same cards. buyers are going to look for the best deal
shows always seem packed in my area.

 

[Stadium Sports]

Risk versus reward. Sometimes you win, sometimes you make $135.

As much as you are feeling down..., as a store owner - I don't really feel to bad for you. I can recite sad stories as well (rent, utilities, charities, advertising, wages, security and TAXES) but it's all part of being in business.

Suck it up buttercup. Better days are ahead. That is, if you enjoy it.

 

[hockeymiketalks]

I actually just went to a local card show in montreal and I have a few things to say

1. Cards are overpriced like I needed a Mason Young guns and they want 15$ for it
2. They value cards by BV which is dumb
3. They sell also base cards and everything which is good
4. There isnt to much variety like only cards from like 2009-10

I gotta say at the card show I went in today not a lot of people showed up so I feel like the sellers who bought a stand lost money for sure.

 

[Amazing Heroes]

I don't feel that way. The people that shop in my store are friends in my eyes. I would love to see them pull great stuff from packs. I feel bad if they get the "Dog" pack. I also stress to all of them that collecting has nothing to do with values. It has to do with enjoyment. If you like a set that had dropped in price over the last 5 years that's a great thing. If you buy a $100 pack of cards you know the risk. It's a lottery ticket. Everyone want's to pull the huge rookie or short printed insert but do you buy packs of sets you don't want to work on just because it has big hit's? Sounds like buying Milk when your lactose intolerant.


Steve
Amazing Heroes
Union NJ 07083

 

[snowrider]

Realize this was 10 months ago...but, I've been thinking about this a little...where is the show done? What I'm wondering is who is making the money from the table fees?

I understand everyone wants a piece of the action, and decent venues are going to attract buyers...but I've always felt that card shows bring in people to the mall here that otherwise wouldn't step foot inside...so maybe those fees are a bit too high for a 2-3 day event.

Got me to thinking about how I used to find cards at the flea market, but how there aren't any there any more, and those sites were pretty cheap to rent...granted you gotta bring your own tent and all, but there's lots of foot traffic.

gang, I did this show in Chantilly, VA this past weekend (Friday thru Sunday) and it SUCKED. I paid $225 for 3 days and I made $135.

 

[chakhae1]

To me collecting isn't really about investing and making money. Sure I am glad the SPX rookie sets I am working on and am near completed are worth some coin, but in the end I like the designs, the rookies in the sets and the entire process of completing these sets over the past year or so was a whole of fun and that's all that matters to me.

As far as making money at shows I noticed that the money is indeed in the bargain bins and I have seen high end cards in the show case of dealers for ages and ages. Personally, I only go to shows and look through the bargain bins and rarely do I buy high end cards from shows unless I know I can get a deal.

It really is sad how corrupt this hobby has become and how making money is the bottom line, but there really is nothing you can do about it.

 

[dabigyankeeman]

Its a tough thing. We only have one good show down here in south Florida, but at least its a once-a-month show. However, there is Ebay lurking there.

For instance, I had my eyes on two cards on Ebay, but it was time for the monthly show. Now i love to go to card shows, been doing it since 1980. However, i have limited funds. So, do i go to the show or spend my money on the two Ebay cards?

Well, i went to the show. I was hoping to find those two cards (old tobacco cards of Yankees, or NY American if you want to get technical), or at least find similar cards that i could get instead. Well, two dealers there had some tobacco cards, but neither had any i needed. What should i do, i kept trying to decide. Finally what i did was from one of them i made two small buys, and took the rest of my money home and just barely eeked out the two cards from Ebay. Had there been more dealers with tobacco cards there, perhaps i would have found what i wanted. This is the problem with shows nowadays, if you are into vintage, and when i say vintage, i am talking about 1960's and older, at most shows down here you find very few dealers with them, and the older you get, the less dealers have them. You need big shows with a lot of big dealers, and its a vast wasteland down here, no big shows down south ever.

But i know that tobacco cards are not super common, but also the selection of cards on Ebay is tough to match at a card show. For instance, i am starting to look for 1956 and 1957 cards in VG condition. Its hard to find at shows. I find a lot in better condition selling for a small fortune, but not many in lessor condition. I will even take a decent looking card in "G" condition at times, but again, its very hard to find at shows, but they pop up on Ebay all the time.

However, i love getting out of the house and going to shows. I guess i will probably continue to split my buying between the shows and Ebay. I would like to buy more at the shows as its fun and i want to support the show promoter and the dealers there, and i will do that when possible, but when i have specific wants at times it usually winds up with an Ebay buy.

I know at this show, the dealer i bought the 2 items off of is a major dealer with a lot of tables and tons of old stuff, and he told me that some shows he barely breaks even with his expenses, and he lives around here so he doesnt have any travel or hotel expenses when he does this show.

Sometimes dealers dont know what to bring, as they cant bring all their stuff if they are a big dealer. I actually wanted a really cheap card too, a 2010 Topps series 2 Lou Gehrig insert that looked like a 1958 card, and again i saw it on Ebay for a buck or two, but didnt want to add postage to that, its not worth it, and i figured i would pick one up at the show. Well, not a single dealer had any 2010 series 2 individual cards that i could find. I realize they probably didnt bring them since its too cheap, but they all have boxes of dollar and cheaper cards, they could have brought some of these in boxes maybe.

I have been buying since 1980, and we used to have a bunch of good card stores down here and a bunch of great shows and i loved them. Now though, most of what i buy is on Ebay, but i would prefer to support the local dealers if possible.

How about store hours? Its Sunday, and i would think that the weekend would be the hot time for a card store as people work during the week. Well, i feel like going to the one card store i really like down here, but its closed today, closed on Sundays. So he lost out, by next Saturday i may not be in the mood to buy cards, or i may have bought them on Ebay. Try closing on Mondays and keeping open the whole weekend.

By the way, i collect, i do NOT invest, i enjoy this hobby. I like base cards, i like to open packs and i do NOT look for rare insert cards in them. I wish they would have sets with no inserts and then sell the packs cheaper. This gambling mentality with inserts has ruined the hobby. It makes the packs and boxes too expensive, and this creates animosity between the buyers and sellers.

I think i have written way too much, there is so much that could be said about this subject.