Triple B
Verified Trader,
What will help is the eventual website that has cert numbers of graded cards submitted by known card doctors. That way, you can pull out your phone, type in a cert number and see if it’s one you might question.
PWCC served with FBI Subpoena at the 2019 National
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LMAO, I love it!
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
I’m sure someone from BODA can start something like this.
Triple B
Verified Trader,
Apparently they are working on it.
djsatu
Verified Trader ,
PWCC is still listing trimmed cards so this isn't stopping them. Sad.
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
Very sad. They just straight up don't care.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
I'd been thinking about refocusing my collection to graded Young Guns and researching which grading company I would collect moving forward.
It was looking like I was going to go with PSA but damn, after reading up on this scandle and seeing the sheer number of PSA 10 cards of guys like Matthews, McDavid, Pettersson etc being sold by PWCC and Probstein I've kind of been turned off by the whole thing. I started looking up the serial numbers of copies of cards I'd been considing making offers on from other sellers and almost all of them show an eBay auction history that starts with either PWCC or Probstein. It's almost like a factory has been pumping out these cards and they're still circulating heavily around eBay.
To the big rookie collectors around here who collect graded cards.. Do you still trust these companies at all? I don't know if I can bring myself to start investing the extra money into graded when I can just collect sharp looking raw cards and not have to worry about it.
Very disappointed in this whole development.
It was looking like I was going to go with PSA but damn, after reading up on this scandle and seeing the sheer number of PSA 10 cards of guys like Matthews, McDavid, Pettersson etc being sold by PWCC and Probstein I've kind of been turned off by the whole thing. I started looking up the serial numbers of copies of cards I'd been considing making offers on from other sellers and almost all of them show an eBay auction history that starts with either PWCC or Probstein. It's almost like a factory has been pumping out these cards and they're still circulating heavily around eBay.
To the big rookie collectors around here who collect graded cards.. Do you still trust these companies at all? I don't know if I can bring myself to start investing the extra money into graded when I can just collect sharp looking raw cards and not have to worry about it.
Very disappointed in this whole development.
tuukkatime
Verified Trader,
Not sure if I qualify for “big rookie collector” but I’ve definitely still got trust in the grading companies for making sure a card isn’t damaged visibly but have become somewhat less interested in paying significant premiums for BGS 10s +.
For example, I really like having my cup rookies in a BGS 9 slab just so I know nothing is the matter with it. I also really like 9.5s because generally it means the card is very clean with 8 (thicc cards) nice corners, nice edges, and good surface, which to me impacts visual appeal. Traditionally, I’ve found most 9s have at least one minor “issue” while 9.5s generally don’t.
Where things get a bit dicey for me is the big premium a “true gem” or a BGS 10. I think that if grade is the only factor in generating scarcity and therefore creating a value bump, it’s putting a bit too much collecting weight on the grading companies. I’d prefer to pick another reason to pay a premium like a nice patch or a very short printed card (or a great player).
Just my 2 cents!
Cardboardkid
Registered Trader,
Has there been any recent developments in this case? I see PWCC and Probstein are still very active selling still...
mortuus
New Member, Must Send First!
ebay should ban pwcc, they are crooks but they give tons of money to ebay due to their shilled auctions so they can continue their greedy business...
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
Not sure if this will happen in the immediate future (doubt it), but I hope a company like MNT Grading will pickup some steam and become heavier hitters in the graded card market. I don't expect this to happen overnight, but they seem to be very good from what I've heard. Still small, but growing.
CeddieB
Verified Trader,
My thoughts almost exactly (although substitute "YG" in for "Cup"). I'm happy picking up a BGS 9 for the same or slightly less than raw cards. It's still "Mint"
(used to be NrMt was the most we expected back in my 'early days' of 80's & 90's collecting), and it's nicely protected in the slab.
Obviously 9.5's are nice too, but won't pay the premium for 10's.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
I'm considering the option of grabbing PSA 9's and still getting slabbed MINT cards for a better price, but then I can't shake the feeling that I'd be "settling" for the 9's and regretting not spending a few bucks more for the 10's.
I've thought myself in circles over this for about the past week straight. I know whatever I decide to do it'll be all or nothing, so if I decide to go PSA 10 or PSA 9 or BGS 9.5 or stick to raw, all of the cards I get from then on would have to be the same because my OCD won't allow for a mish-mash of random slabs with no uniformity.
Trying to make that decision has been hard enough, and now throw all this scandal into the mix that makes you doubt the high graded cards and I have no friggin' idea what to do.
Someone talk me into which direction to take so I can start buying some cards LOL
spooner9ball
Verified Trader,
Buy RAW cards in person that look great to you, and put them in a one touch and team bag.
I don't think the subjective view of some stranger racing through a massive backlog of product should take precedent over your own.
Fritz
Nitwit in good standing,
If eventual resale is something you consider when you acquire cards, still buy graded. BGS or PSA. And I’m with you, keep’em all the same I love uniformity in my PC too.
As for the grading scandals, the scale of cards impacted is minute relative to overall populations. The best thing about graded cards is still the original reason the grading industry was created - to give some some comfort as to the condition of a card you are buying remotely and can’t examine in hand.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
Who's slabs do you prefer Jeremy? I see pros and cons to both. The PSA slabs seem sleeker and clearer, with IMO nicer labels, but it seems like the cards can move around more inside. BGS slabs have the sub grades and inner sleeve which seems nice as far as preventing movement but they are also bulkier and seem to be more cloudy than the PSA slabs.
junyab
Verified Trader ,
I like MNT and believe they will gain more traction in the industry very soon...but I can't say by buying MNT graded cards that you'll be able to avoid trimmed cards with absolute certainty.
japhi
New Member, Must Send First,
It MAY be minute - I say may because its only possible to audit a minute number of cards in slabs- relative to overall number of cards graded but dollar volume is significant and lots of sets are compromised. For hockey that includes 51 parkhurst and other early parkie issues. Likely thousands of early trimmed parkies with the large white borders, and some of the hack jobs are embarrassing.
And some of the largest dealers in the hobby have been implicated. Two of the largest COMC dealers were trimming everything - 2 dollar to 2k dollar cards.
I get that people will minimize this, lots of folks have significant investments in graded cards. But if you buy say a PSA 10 McDavid YG or SPA check its size cause there are hundreds of trimmed ones in slabs.
I had a pretty significant HOF RC registry set and have moved it all. PSA and BGS have demonstrated an inability to detect alterations, and are clearly giving large dealers favourable grades and access. The game imo is rigged and I hate being a mark so I am out.
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
Very true. I guess I just like rooting for "the little guy" in the grading card industry now due to what has gone on.
