If You Were President of Upper Deck....

...what steps would you take to grow the hockey card industry?


Jeremy's recent interview with Billy from Upper Deck got me thinking about this topic. I thought he gave an excellent interview and really spoke well on behalf of Upper Deck. Billy, a hobby enthusiast himself, spoke about licensing, printing and others costs associated with making a set. Evidently, they have some good folks at Upper Deck, but at the end of the day, they have a business to operate. As collectors, we all have wish lists, but what are some feasible, money making ideas that you think UD could do?
Its easy to criticize and as hobby experts, we aren't short of opinions, but giving advice isn't as easy. Billy mentioned that he checks the forum regularly, so since we know they're listening, I thought I'd ask the question – what would you do different if you ran the ship? If you were President of Upper Deck, how do you grow the hockey card industry while simultaneously increasing profit? How do you make fun sets but keeps costs under control?


Some examples...
-Keep growing Game Dated Moments and the e-shop. Target inclusion of autographs and jerseys into this initiative. Its a good way to use exclusive autographs and you make exactly as many as you sell in a given window so no extra inventory.

-Capitalize on the 90s. I think the company was on the right track with Chronology but just missed the mark. Use that NHLPA deal to crank up that 90s nostalgia to the max. The 90s were a great time for hockey. Perhaps a Games Dated Moments going through the many players, events and games that made up the 90s. Engage collectors in the process, ask them what their favorite memories are from the era and turn those into cards.

-Re-think the box store (Walmart/Target) blaster boxes/tins. Give them value back. This is the first introduction for many into the hobby, get them hooked by giving good value with blasters, maybe even a unique insert or two. If anything, just go back to what they were before. Even if there's a little more direct cost associated with inserting another hit, you create future collectors with these products.



Jay

Simple, as I told Billy, biggest thing they need is something akin to Topps now, real time cards printed and sold every 24 hours with occasional memorabilia and autographs produced. Also spice up the sets with more fun cross branding and unique inserts like a “Fans of the Game” type set as well as some sets dedicated to hockey movies like Slapshot, Mighty Ducks, Young Blood, Mystery Alaska, etc.

Great topic!

An idea that I’ve been bouncing around in my head stems from my love of vintage jersey designs.

How about a giant set based solely on “3rd jerseys” and/or “Retro jersey” nights? I think each team has some kind of variety. It could even been distributed on a per team basis like the old 1990 Topps team packages. Keep it low cost design so it’s attractive to all collectors. So no regular jersey designs, just the 3rd jersey designs. Even the memorabilia in these sets could be based on the 3rd jerseys.

And of course, trying to focus on current players. The love and production of vintage stars could be avoided for this set

Great topic! After listening to the great interview I really hope they are truly listening.

steveottfan said:

-Keep growing Game Dated Moments and the e-shop.

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Agreed. I think it is a great idea with one small flaw...state what the print run is. To me that is hurting it.

The first year they did it I kept a running print run total as best I could. Made a post about it and it is still there. Was tough to keep up and no one seemed to really be collecting it anyway so I gave up.

steveottfan said:

-Re-think the box store (Walmart/Target) blaster boxes/tins. Give them value back. This is the first introduction for many into the hobby, get them hooked by giving good value with blasters, maybe even a unique insert or two. If anything, just go back to what they were before. Even if there's a little more direct cost associated with inserting another hit, you create future collectors with these products.

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Could not agree more! Figure out a way to add value. What about a variation YG like Panini Hanger packs have? Just an idea...

I said in another post they are just sitting on the shelf. No one wants them.


Sometimes I think the answer is staring them in the face and don't want to see it...take what everyone loves and expand on it.

What about Upper Deck Chrome? I love the idea of a Lafreniere base, SILVER, Red, Green YG's.

I have said it before in another post and seem to go no where. The purists hated it but I think hockey collectors are starting to come around to what works in other sports. Everyone seems to be on the Basketball and Baseball train now. Hopefully everyone can see how fun it is with parallels and such. Big value for minimum cost to UD. Anyone seen what blasters of Prizm and Bowman are going for? Enough said.

If they don't want to go the Chrome route...UD1 I think they are missing the middle tough to get YG. They have the base, exclusive, and acetate. What about a Chrome YG one per every two boxes? Yes they have epack foil but just not the same unless it is pack pulled.

Some things I have loved that they added...got rid of jersey cards and added acetate for the base set. Fanimation is fantastic! Maybe expand and add RC's?

Just my thoughts...great topic.

Stop the practice of increasing the cost of their products as well as the odds (hello, Young Guns).

Young Guns photo variations at long odds (keep your Young Guns at 1:4 but make your Variations 1:case or longer).

Real time, 24 hour available Game Dated cards.

Do something with your exclusives/spokespeople other than UDA.

You guys are thinking as collectors, which has nothing to do with Upper Deck's business strategy. If they cared about collectors they would sell everything via their website and cutout distributors entirely. They have every advantage in the game since they have an exclusive. They don't even allow small time breakers to really open their new products without having a physical location. All of this is geared toward keeping their distribution model in place which forces mediocre product down the pipeline in exchange for high end product. None of this benefits the consumer.

Look at NFL for example, you could register a business license in a few minutes on your state's website and order a case of whatever you want from a distributor. In one day you can become a group breaker, which means everyone is winning. Panani makes more money, the distributor makes some money on the deal, the small time breaker takes their percentage and the customer isn't forced to use just a couple venues for breaks. Those venues are also not forced to take on cases and cases of Panini's version of Victory in exchange for Flawless.

I still believe a move away from so many autos and mem would be great. Still have them in your staple SPGU, Cup etc but a product like Allure would have been a huge hit if you get rid of the mem and most of the autos and just have all of the shinny stuff.

It might take a few releases to get people on board but I have to assume removing auto and mem content would allow for a lower box price and more widely affordable market.

SNobles said:

I still believe a move away from so many autos and mem would be great. Still have them in your staple SPGU, Cup etc but a product like Allure would have been a huge hit if you get rid of the mem and most of the autos and just have all of the shinny stuff.

It might take a few releases to get people on board but I have to assume removing auto and mem content would allow for a lower box price and more widely affordable market.

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100%!

The vast majority of game used ends up in the common bin as soon as its opened. Even when UD puts long odds on a standard jersey card, like in Series 1 & 2 its still hard to move. If they created a product like Allure with long odds for certain parallels and much harder to find, hard signed autographs I think it would do really well.

If the hobby as a whole could move away from stickers and photoshoot jerseys I don't think much value would be lost.

Pieces of cup in The Cup. Just kidding.

Photo variation YGs. It would be cheap to fire off what essentially is a base card through the printers. They would go for big bucks. Big added value for a very minimal cost.

My favourite auto set of all time is Panini Private Signings. Each product released some cards to the set and the checklist was ever growing. The cards weren’t numbered and it was a clean design. Release 10-15 players per release and save some of the bigger guys for the bigger releases. Because the checklist is ever growing UD could just use what players that their have in stock meaning never having a redemption.

This would have to be a late season release so SP Authentic, Premier or Cup. I would not have it in Cup though. Make a hard signed auto set commemorating the Stanley Cup champs. Number each player to 50 or 100. Go deep though and have 15 players in the set. Now St. Louis won last year and they are not a big hobby team but imagine is a big hobby team won. How many Blues fan would try to complete that set? Many. Make it a yearly set. I am sure that many people would put that set together. Another thing is that they could get many depth players in there and I would assume those autos would be much cheaper for UD to acquire.

Steal a page from ITG’s book and have redemptions for made to order Sign of the Times. Dual, triple and quad SOTT. It would obviously be all sticker autos but you get to select your combos. Plus it would be a 1/1.

Throw in all of their junk redemptions that are just taking up space in their warehouse. I am looking at you Artifacts. How many parallels are their of every rookie card? Many and they are all redemptions. Now I am talking about your no name players who UD could never use as a replacement. Add them in as a bonus “hit” in a product like Series One or Two.

Bring back the nostalgia to us older collectors who collected in the early 90’s. Remember all of those Pro Set error cards? How cool would a set be that was filled with error variations. The only catch is that UD can’t announce any of the errors. It has to be up to us collectors to find them. Make it a simple basic set. No autos or jerseys. Nothing shiny. Even make it on that more rough cardboard stock paper. Let the errors bring in the value. It would be cheap to produce and that would keep the box / pack prices low.

Stop flooding sets with rookies, especially in higher end products. I realize it's hard to determine which rookies will pan out or not, but more than likely the defenseman taken in the 8th round that did 2 years in the CHL and then 6 years of college before going pro shouldn't have a patch auto in The Cup Limited Logos or other sets.

How about adding some value to releases like Series 1/2. It can't cost that much more to print up some nice inserts that are decent looking, and on the rare side, maybe even serial numbered. Enough of the penny inserts which no one collects. If you don't hit the top 2-3 YG in Series 1/2, you're basically looking at $5-10 worth of cards for a box that now costs almost $100.

Also what happened to the non rookies? Seems like less and less veterans are signing for UD nowadays and we're being inundated with more and more worthless rookies.

Rookie autographs (for the most part) = cheap
Stars and Vets (for the most part) = expensive

If you don’t have to pay for their autograph or buy their jerseys then sets would/could/should be a lot more affordable.

So I assume the reason why all of these newer products outside of Chronology V1 are dominated by rookie is because it is just cheaper to make the set since there are mem and au parallels of most cards in the sets.

SNobles said:

Rookie autographs (for the most part) = cheap
Stars and Vets (for the most part) = expensive

If you don’t have to pay for their autograph or buy their jerseys then sets would/could/should be a lot more affordable.

So I assume the reason why all of these newer products outside of Chronology V1 are dominated by rookie is because it is just cheaper to make the set since there are mem and au parallels of most cards in the sets.

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Yep, that is a big part of UD's struggles and inability to give us everything we want. It's straight up costs, like any business. They also unfortunately don't have anything close to the resources Topps and Panini have.

When you heard Billy say on SCL they are trying not to put more Gretzky autos in the products to provide value to the market for his stuff, I believe that to a degree. Let's be perfectly honest, Gretzky will always drive products more if he is included in them, than not.

So read between the lines: As a business, Wayne's signatures are not cost-effective for UD to acquire in mass quantities and put into products regularly, sorry collectors.

Look at other sports, or, for fun, just plug "Trout 2020 auto" into baseball cards on eBay and click the "sold" filter. Topps literally cannot insert enough cards of that guy and everything still sells into the stratosphere. If there is a market for it, it will sell. Gretzky will always sell and well along with other established, veteran HHOF types.

I don't know if there is any demand for it, but I'd like a low end set without any short printed base cards so it would be possible to get a complete set in 3 or fewer boxes with just reasonably decent luck. And to keep the product interesting and exciting, seed it with some tough to grab autograph cards. This could be the new Victory. (And cardboard! Make the set like the 2003-04 Victory, which I loved.)

O-Pee-Chee is close, but completing a set is a real bear and the blizzard of variants is overwhelming. Don't change OPC, but give us an alternative that kids can collect and actually complete. The absence of a sense of completion is, I believe, harmful to growing the next generation of collectors.

Mike

habscards said:

My favourite auto set of all time is Panini Private Signings. Each product released some cards to the set and the checklist was ever growing. The cards weren’t numbered and it was a clean design. Release 10-15 players per release and save some of the bigger guys for the bigger releases. Because the checklist is ever growing UD could just use what players that their have in stock meaning never having a redemption.

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There are a lot of great ideas here but this might be my favorite because it would be SO easy to start. I couldn't agree more about how great Private Signings was. Sales from that set continue to surprise me. Its such a simple yet great set. All UD has to do is create a nice, clean base design and then just run with it. You can include rookies every year along with veterans and with UD now having access to retired guys, it just makes so much sense.

steveottfan said:

There are a lot of great ideas here but this might be my favorite because it would be SO easy to start. I couldn't agree more about how great Private Signings was. Sales from that set continue to surprise me. Its such a simple yet great set. All UD has to do is create a nice, clean base design and then just run with it. You can include rookies every year along with veterans and with UD now having access to retired guys, it just makes so much sense.

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They have the 1997 Legends set but I can never tell when the set is dead or alive. Are they actually putting new cards out or are they old ones that didn't make packout in time in a previous year?

steveottfan said:

There are a lot of great ideas here but this might be my favorite because it would be SO easy to start. I couldn't agree more about how great Private Signings was. Sales from that set continue to surprise me. Its such a simple yet great set. All UD has to do is create a nice, clean base design and then just run with it. You can include rookies every year along with veterans and with UD now having access to retired guys, it just makes so much sense.

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I agree, Private Signings was awesome. The idea of a constant, ongoing set to be added to is really appealing to a lot of collectors, especially if there's an added element of scarcity.

We see this with the A Piece of History set. A lot of cards from that ongoing set sell well. If UD could create a clean autograph set to roll with, I think they could have a winner there.

TheGriceBoys said:

Simple, as I told Billy, biggest thing they need is something akin to Topps now, real time cards printed and sold every 24 hours with occasional memorabilia and autographs produced. Also spice up the sets with more fun cross branding and unique inserts like a “Fans of the Game” type set as well as some sets dedicated to hockey movies like Slapshot, Mighty Ducks, Young Blood, Mystery Alaska, etc.

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creasecollector said:

I agree, Private Signings was awesome. The idea of a constant, ongoing set to be added to is really appealing to a lot of collectors, especially if there's an added element of scarcity.

We see this with the A Piece of History set. A lot of cards from that ongoing set sell well. If UD could create a clean autograph set to roll with, I think they could have a winner there.

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Different types of cards, but same concept. Sounds like a good idea.

Up their game in the production timeline department. They would have sold a lot more product in the Cup run last year if the actually had product with Binnington in it. A good chance they were going to repeat the same scenario with Francouz this year before the interruption.

Another good example is Aleksi Saarela. Traded from Chicago to Florida on October 23rd. UD, as of OPC Platinum, was still pumping out cards of him in a Blackhawks uniform. He never made a regular season appearance for Chicago.