Emailed UD for info on 08/09 Victory Black's and.....

Ok quick qestion really quick. Is there anyone who collects a player that is in the Victory Update in the UD 2 that hasnt had a black show up yet? I am just courious if there is any cause with all the weird things UD has done while packing things out over the years is it possible some of the players had all of their blacks sent in the first cases shipped out while some blacks still havent seen the light of day cause they are still in the UD whare house?
 
foley2k said:
They would disclose so that the consumer knows that there is in fact a certain number of them made. Sure they are hard to find, because they released on a few into boxes. Whats to say they dont have stacks of them in their warehouse? Having a print run on the cards verifies how many they produced.
I am not saying that they are doing this, but some numbers would be nice instead of just saying it is rare.
Upperdeck hasnt proved themselves trustworthy over the past few years, so I wouldnt put anything past them.
Click to expand...

And your sense of entitlement doesn't demand that UD provide production numbers to you either. They're out there, it's up to you whether you want to get the ones you want or unload the ones you have. Who's to say that if the shoe wasn't on the other foot, and you were the only collector who knew exactly how many were out there that you wouldn't take advantage of that fact. I don't know you, but can I trust you all the same? Just playing Devil's Advocate here...

And just because x amount of cards of one player are out right now - doesn't mean that y amount of cards will be available a couple of months down the road - especially once the rip and flip crowd has come and gone and moved onto the next new product or flavour of the day. UD has disclosed which cards are limited to what with the serially numbered inserts.

Yes, the blacks were serial numbered in 05-06 - but really how many people in the actual target audience for Victory really even cared about the blacks in the first place? If you can find me 100 run of the mill 8-12 yr olds who get the cards for pics of hockey players vs. 100 run of the mill hard-core collectors, let me know how many really care in the first place that colour around the picture is black or gold.
 
hatzosman6 said:
That's irrelevant when there's no stated print run in the first place. The only people claiming Victory parallels are limited to 5 copies are collectors and dealers who don't know any better.

UD has no obligation to verify how many Victory parallel cards are produced.
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I think where the /5 idea came from is the 05-06 Victory where the blacks are actually machine stamped out of 5.

Even in the victory set of this year the black was still a tough pull. Just now they seem to be popping up with very high frequency with series 2 release.
 
rookjunkie said:
I think where the /5 idea came from is the 05-06 Victory where the blacks are actually machine stamped out of 5.
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I'm well aware of that, but that's the only year that any print run was stated or stamped on the card. The idea that subsequent sets had the same print run is an idea that's only been perpetuated (incorrectly) by collectors, and Upper Deck is not at fault at all.
 
The only proof I can find that Black are easier to get by in UD2 is the fact that... I pulled one! Yes! Out of 10 packs (bought with gaz “cash”), I pulled Hornqvist Black RC, Tikhonov Gold RC, two YG and a Purcell Exclusive YG.

I don't bust wax very often and when I do, I am never lucky. Never. So, pulling a Black out of 10 packs is the optimal clue, for me, that they are not that rare.

By the way, I almost goes by my Black without noticing it. I only realized that it was a Black the day after I pulled it. Before, for me, it was a regular RC version. That make me think that I am probably not the only one who did that mistake (at least, I hope not :)). If some Black RC are sleeping in common boxes, that kind of add to the theory that the Black are not that rare.

P.S. Sorry for my basic english. Hope you get a clue of what I am trying to say :)
 
Is it safe to say that the Series 2 production of Victory Blacks differs from the initial 08/09 Victory release? I've only seen one copy of each of my players and own both. They seem pretty hard to find in general, or at least they did until UD2 dropped.
 
JacktheRipper said:
Is it safe to say that the Series 2 production of Victory Blacks differs from the initial 08/09 Victory release? I've only seen one copy of each of my players and own both. They seem pretty hard to find in general, or at least they did until UD2 dropped.
Click to expand...

I wish someone new the production run of the two sets. Based on what Im seeing, the seeding is just at a greater ratio. That is, more cases of UD series one were produced, which means more base, inserts and YG from series 1 vs. series 2, but less seeding of the low numbered and rare inserts - so they will show up less frequently..

This leads to less series 2 YG in the pipe.. and more of the lower numbered parallels popping from a box / case..

Maybe a case cracker can compare a case of series 1 vs. 2 on the hits for Black, HG, Exclusives..
 
Considering that normally UD2 has a print run of about 35% less than UD1 - with the exception being 05-06. It would be fair to say that pulling a black in UD2 is easier than pulling one out of the base Victory issue, particularly since UD2 would be broken down significantly more than Victory - on any level.

Keep in mind that while you're seeing the Update Blacks come out with regularity, the question will be how many can one find available in 6 months, a year, two years down the road? How many people will be going back to the UD2 well during those time frames? Likely very few to the point where if you don't jump on getting the blacks you want now - you might not be able to find them easily down the road. Remember that the rip and flip crowd will move on to the next product when it arrives.
 
Tyler Sloan

I have 1 in hand
2 have sold in the past week or so
2 are live right now
------------------
5 exist so far.


I was honestly going to scoop them ALL up and get a count myself, but unfortunately that didn't quite go according to plan as I'm broke.
 
Mike52Green said:
Tyler Sloan

I have 1 in hand
2 have sold in the past week or so
2 are live right now
------------------
5 exist so far.


I was honestly going to scoop them ALL up and get a count myself, but unfortunately that didn't quite go according to plan as I'm broke.
Click to expand...

The unfortunate thing is - without serial numbering, or someone buying them all, there is no way to guarantee that the two that have sold and the two that are live right now are different copies. They probably are, but they might not be.

Someone could have bought a copy to flip quickly, a seller might have been unsure of the price and set an under the table reserve by having a friend bid on it, and then sell it under a new ID...etc. A strong vote in favour of actual serial numbering and not stated print run.
 
lets see if this makes sense. Ive been capturing pictures of various #ed canes cards. Since there are so many YG as part of series 2 I think the study has some validity, there are many external factors that cannot be controlled.

The net is it would appear that there are 20-50 Blacks out there if any of the ratios hold true...

---------CardsSeen--PrintRun--%ofPrintRun
boychuk
playmakers 10 100 10%
clearcut 4 100 4%
Sutter
playmakers 13 100 13%
clearcut 6 100 6%


boychuk
HG 1 10 10%
Exclusives 8 100 8%
Dwyer
HG 0 10 0%
Exclusives 8 100 8%
Helminen
HG 2 10 20%
Exclusives 8 100 8%
Jensen
HG 0 10 0%
Exclusives 9 100 9%
Peters
HG 3 10 30%
Exclusives 9 100 9%
81 950 10% (Average percent seen)

Total Percent of Print Run Seen for the 14 cards : 9%

---------See so Far ----Possible Victory Blacks using percent ratio..
Boychuk 2 20.74
Sutter 4 41.48
Helminen 3 31.11
 

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