Expectations for sticker autographs

chadsexington

chadsexington

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Hey guys,

Was sitting here pouring through a few Artifacts listings and box breaks, and noticed that Patrick O'Sullivan is in this year's Autofacts set. :whatthehell:

Thing is, he hasn't played in the NHL now for nearly 2 years and hasn't played pro hockey now in almost a full year. While I assume he isn't retired, I don't think he's actively with the NHLPA.

I hate using the terms "sticker dump" which we're prone to use, but this doesn't seem like it's anything but. Granted, maybe it wouldn't seem to be so much so if he was in an NHL farm system, but he isn't.

I'm just wondering - What are reasonable expectations on how leftover stickers are used? This was problematic a few years ago too when Kevin Nastiuk was showing in sets as far on as 08-09 despite not having played a single minute in the NHL (I guess he met minimum requirements though since he backed up for a couple games?)

I'm kind of weird this way though I guess. I don't think it's reasonable for a company to stick the auto in the set like that as though he was still a current player, though if they did another SPGU Auto-Draft style set, and I saw his autographs being used there, I wouldn't blink an eye. :laugh:

I realize they pay for and have to use the stickers somehow, but there's gotta be a better customer experience than paying $100+ per box for an NHL product and getting autographs of players that haven't had valid contracts with the league for more than a full season purported to still be kicking around.
 
I think it's bad for business to do a sticker dump. It deters collectors from busting more product. Plus UD did nothing to be creative about it either.


In O'Sullivan's case, there are many ways to appeal to the fan and collector. 1st overall in OHL draft, 1st player raised in N Carolina to play for the Canes, make dual autos with players he was traded for or with, etc

What I would have liked to have seen in this case is (with his permission) to use his signature to raise awareness of hockey obsessive parents and the damage that they can do.

http://garejoyce.blogspot.ca/2007/01/saddest-story-in-hockey-abused.html

Raise funds to pay for counsellors in junior leagues to help kids going through the same thing now.
 
Autofacts, and Signature Sensations (UD Series 1, and I think Series 2 ??) are notorious for this.

Add Colton Teubert (last in the NHL in 11-12) to that list too. Pretty sure I saw Leland Irving, who is a backup in the AHL now, in the set aswell.


I agree with you 100%


I realize Upper Deck (or whomever) pay these guy lots of money to sign stickers as rookies, and then they're left holding the bag with leftovers, and the kid doesn't make it.

I would humbly suggest that the solution is to get less rookie signatures. Of course that won't happen..... so as you've already mentioned - at least find some creative way of using them, instead of sticking them into sets and passing them off as current players.
 
This should be bring to the NHLPA. there should be rules on who they can put on a cards. (played at least 1 game, etc...) It looks like now, UD and Panini can use any type of signature they got from a player at anytime. Weird!
 
I've been thinking the same thing about the Auto-Facts from this year. All I seem to see getting pulled are no-name wash outs, AHL lifers and 4th line plumbers. I realize they have been bought and paid for and thus have to get used, but they shouldn't be packing out inside a product like Artifacts.
 
tiger tiger said:
I think it's bad for business to do a sticker dump. It deters collectors from busting more product. Plus UD did nothing to be creative about it either.
Click to expand...

Not sure how much I subscribe to that theory. While it doesn't impress anybody to see stuff like Pascale Leclaire and Patty O'Sullivan in sticker-based products like Score or Artifacts, how many people actually bust them thinking "Oh baby the base auto content in this release is a real driver for me!" With Score it's the rookies and set-building challenge; with Artifacts it's about the memorabilia.

As long as everybody knows the scoop, yeah it's frustrating as all heck to know that you're MUCH more likely to get a dollar bin special than anyone of real consequence, but it comes back to what actually drives the products versus what is just kinda there.
 
Superdoup said:
This should be bring to the NHLPA. there should be rules on who they can put on a cards. (played at least 1 game, etc...) It looks like now, UD and Panini can use any type of signature they got from a player at anytime. Weird!
Click to expand...
Not really that weird. If you buy a suit to go to a wedding and the wedding is cancelled, you still own the suit and can use it at whatever date is suitable to you, whether it's 3 days from the time of purchase or 30 years.
The PA has already been paid their portion for the autographs and continues to get paid for the license on the product. As much as it sucks for collectors, the card companies have every right to use the autographs, I just think they should be thrown into the lower-end releases. That's all.
 
2 questions:

1) How much does Upper Deck pay your Kevin Nastiuks?
2) Can a rookie refuse to sign cards for Upper Deck? (If so, do you know who has?)

As for the original question, I agree with others that a good place for a sticker dump would be in a cheap, kid oriented product where kids would be happy to pull an auto of any type. Assuming any kid products still exist.

Mike
 
RGM81 said:
Not sure how much I subscribe to that theory. While it doesn't impress anybody to see stuff like Pascale Leclaire and Patty O'Sullivan in sticker-based products like Score or Artifacts, how many people actually bust them thinking "Oh baby the base auto content in this release is a real driver for me!" With Score it's the rookies and set-building challenge; with Artifacts it's about the memorabilia.
Click to expand...

I can see your point, but then Panini releases Prizm and pushes the sticker auto content as legitimate 'hits' featuring the likes of AHLers Chay Genoway, Brad Staubitz, and Drew Bagnall... and that's only reading through the first 21 cards on the 125 card checklist...

So while I can agree that a Patrick O'Sullivan Autofacts isn't going to hurt product sales. The larger point is that recycled sticker-auto content of career minor leaguers and washed out 'phenoms' don't belong in current NHLPA-licensed product.

I might not feel great hitting a third pair defensemen out of a 'mid-end' product like Prizm, but shouldn't it at least be a guy on a current roster or with NHL experience sometime since 10-11?
 
Does a singular product exist where one cannot pull out at least a handful of dud autos and/or hits?

Every manufacturer has them in every single product. I would probably rather have a POS auto than a Jeff Petry auto - the Autofacts set has never been one that has truly driven me to buy any Artifacts so the inclusion of a bummer auto seems to be par for the course.
 
deepbluejacket said:
2 questions:

1) How much does Upper Deck pay your Kevin Nastiuks?
2) Can a rookie refuse to sign cards for Upper Deck? (If so, do you know who has?)

As for the original question, I agree with others that a good place for a sticker dump would be in a cheap, kid oriented product where kids would be happy to pull an auto of any type. Assuming any kid products still exist.

Mike
Click to expand...

Excellent points.
I believe the players have it written in their NHL contracts that they're obligated to work with card companies and other licensed NHL & NHLPA affiliates. They don't have a choice, but they are paid for their autograph services in a roundabout fashion. Card companies pay the NHLPA for the license --> NHLPA & NHL are in essence a partnership (in spite of appearances) --> NHL owns teams --> Teams pay players to honour contracts --> Contracts contain signing & PR obligations

The whole kid-oriented product would be a smart idea for the card companies to consider. There's only so much disposable income out there so having a low-end product that guaranteed an autograph, a relic and a few base cards in each pack with a youth-friendly design and price point, I'm sure it would be a hit with kids and parents alike.
 
I wish these companies stocked up on Cloutier auto's and dumped them in every product, i personally would love to have PC cards in every release. thats just me though.
 
I'm not sure that using them in a "kid friendly" product is even a great idea.

I agree that most kids would probably be happy with an autograph, in a low cost pack..... but - what if it's someone they've never heard of, or will ever hear of again ??? Not exactly the kind of thing that would get them hooked on collecting. Base cards of their favorite players..... and the odd auto, at least of a guy who's current, would make more sense.

The "creative use" (finding some kind of "themed" card that they still apply to) IMO would be the way to go.
 
30ranfordfan said:
I'm not sure that using them in a "kid friendly" product is even a great idea.

I agree that most kids would probably be happy with an autograph, in a low cost pack..... but - what if it's someone they've never heard of, or will ever hear of again ??? Not exactly the kind of thing that would get them hooked on collecting. Base cards of their favorite players..... and the odd auto, at least of a guy who's current, would make more sense.

The "creative use" (finding some kind of "themed" card that they still apply to) IMO would be the way to go.
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Could you not do this in a kid-friendly product to at least add some interest? As a card company, would you rather piss off a fan base that drops $100+ per box of product, or risk that a 7 year old MIGHT be put off by some day pulling a Patrick O'Sullivan - Rob Schremp dual-signed auto? (Kudos to find all the themes that could relate to THAT card) :laugh:
 
O'sullivan has been my boy for the past 6+ years and even I shake my head sometimes when I see some of the sets he is included in the last couple of years. I'm still going to grab the first copy for $2.99 dlvd and be happy I got something new, but really the guy isn't even playing in the AHL (to my knowledge) and is still getting cards in sets?

Guess I shouldn't complain though, they will run out at some point haha
 
Here's a solution to both Panini and UD. For the lesser known AHL'ers and occasional call ups, create a subset called 'In The System'. Guys like Patrice Cormier, or Chris Kreider even. Make it mean something with the sticker autos. Turn that sticker frown upside down folks! Maybe 1 or 2 prospects from each team. Just a side thought.
 
RGM81 said:
Not sure how much I subscribe to that theory. While it doesn't impress anybody to see stuff like Pascale Leclaire and Patty O'Sullivan in sticker-based products like Score or Artifacts, how many people actually bust them thinking "Oh baby the base auto content in this release is a real driver for me!" With Score it's the rookies and set-building challenge; with Artifacts it's about the memorabilia.

As long as everybody knows the scoop, yeah it's frustrating as all heck to know that you're MUCH more likely to get a dollar bin special than anyone of real consequence, but it comes back to what actually drives the products versus what is just kinda there.
Click to expand...

It may not prevent them from breaking the 1st few of boxes, but maybe after a couple of dud boxes, as they look at the "bounty" that they got.

Yeah, it would be nice get a decent auto, especially if the box is a bit of a dud memorabilia wise. If the base autos are going to have little impact on driving the product, then take them out. But they won't b/c it's to pad the "hit" ratio and dupe collectors into buying more product. If you take out the padded hits, then it's just cheaper to buy the main hits on the secondary market.

There are products where you scan through the checklist and you can tell right away that the product isn't going to be worth busting b/c the items that drive the product isn't strong enough. Sometimes it's just a soft year too (less star rookies).
 
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Tim Stapleton was the name that stood out to be on this year's checklist as being a god awful 'hit.' The guy's entering his second season in the KHL and was never more than an undrafted fringe player.
Having said that, as someone who buys singles and almost never busts wax they're actually great for me. More autographs = cheaper autographs, which leads to more additions to my signature collection.
 
MrWrestler74 said:
Here's a solution to both Panini and UD. For the lesser known AHL'ers and occasional call ups, create a subset called 'In The System'. Guys like Patrice Cormier, or Chris Kreider even. Make it mean something with the sticker autos. Turn that sticker frown upside down folks! Maybe 1 or 2 prospects from each team. Just a side thought.
Click to expand...

I really like this idea. It mixes it up a bit, something new.

James
 

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