Hobby Price Guides - Historic Overview

[Cartophilium]

First let me introduce myself and provide some background.

My name is Andrew Pywowarczuk. I have been active in card collecting circles since 1971. Founder of Cartophilium Inc and a number of other companies. Publisher of the FIRST hockey card price guide in the fall of 1980 - "Hockey Card Checklist and Price Guide" that ran for ten editions thru 1989. National distribution thru Coles and W.H.Smith.Contribued to various other price guides. Publisher of "Hockey Collectors Forum " in the late 1980's. Cartophilium also produced the "Hockey Hall of Fame Collection" on three occassions during the 1980's.

Academic credentials - degrees in Mathematics and Philosophy from McGill University, 1974,1975.

Quick historic overview of price guides. The first annual price guides for baseball, football, basketball were issued by Sport Americana - Denny Eckes and James Beckett in the late 1970's/1980. As stated above I published the first hockey guide in 1980. The basic goal, beyond making money, was providing information in the form of illustrations, identification, checklists and an appreciation of relative pricing the went beyond earlier efforts starting with the American Card Catalog (ACC) that was published in 1960. The ACC formalized the coding - C55, C56, C57, T3, T205, T206 etc, generalized pricing ( $0.05) for cards from the 1910 era. Lacked comparative pricing required for rareties, checklists, had some illustrations that were inadequate and as is the case with any seminal effort had some errors.

The basic concept behind the various price guides issued in the late 1970's/1980 was accuracy, illustrated issue and checklist data with an eye to historic and recent pricing to be published annually with updated information. BTW initially there was no special pricing for rookie cards since rookie cards were not a factor.

From these humble beginnings in the late 1970's/1980 era, price guides have evolved or some might argue mutated, to the present.

As time permits I will touch on various other price guide related topics as well as looking at how Rookie Cards became part of the hobby culture. Marketing gimics such as inserts,jersey cards, etc. Why the cost of boxes skyrocketed starting in the 1980's/early 1990's after price guides became established. Other topics as they arise may be addressed at my discretion.

Please do not ask me to comment about specific people as I value the relationships and friendships developed over the years, conversely I do not wish to waste time or bandwith on certain others.

 

[nauticalcounsel]

Cool.
Keep em coming.

 

[penguinpr]

I have been collecting for over 25 years and still have some of Andrew's guides from when I was a kid... great reading at the time and still fun to look back on (I still have three or four of them, including the first edition).

However, there was a hockey card price guide put out in the mid-1970s by some collectors in the Toronto area before yours. I have an image of it but little info on it. It is in the Hockey Hall of Fame's research library, though. You were the first to get major distribution, I would imagine but it definitely wasn't the first hockey card price guide and checklist. No disrespect is meant, but I thought you might find this interesting.

 

[bto3105]

Does anyone have a pictures as I can remember 2 as a kid. One was a small Blue Book 84-85 ish and the other was bigger and had a bunch of cards on the front ,around 89. Anyone of them yours????

 

[penguinpr]

I remember the first edition has a dark blue cover... third edition has a red cover.

I had the sixth and eighth editions, which I believe were black and green.

The collages on the front were great. I would stare at them to see what cards I would have and dream of the ones that would one day be mine. (I'm still working on some of them! lol)

 

[Cartophilium]

Explanation

I have been collecting for over 25 years and still have some of Andrew's guides from when I was a kid... great reading at the time and still fun to look back on (I still have three or four of them, including the first edition).

However, there was a hockey card price guide put out in the mid-1970s by some collectors in the Toronto area before yours. I have an image of it but little info on it. It is in the Hockey Hall of Fame's research library, though. You were the first to get major distribution, I would imagine but it definitely wasn't the first hockey card price guide and checklist. No disrespect is meant, but I thought you might find this interesting.

Thank you for the kind comments.

The publication that you refer to(scan) was published in the second half of the seventies by Stommen publications - John Stommen, founder and publisher of the original SCD out of Milan, Michigan. It was a rather limited checklist type guide, rather incomplete beyond the standard Parkhurst, O-Pee-Chee, Topps.

It fits in with various other publications that that came out touching baseball, football and basketball during the mid / late seventies that featured relatively accurate checklist information but lacked anything ressembling(in my opinion) comprehensive pricing.

The Toronto based guide was issued by Queen's Comics, Paul Lawrence and his wife, after my first issue came out. Will not comment or review old competitors for reasons stated previously but will say that I respected and appreciated their efforts.

 

[Cartophilium]

Yes

Does anyone have a pictures as I can remember 2 as a kid. One was a small Blue Book 84-85 ish and the other was bigger and had a bunch of cards on the front ,around 89. Anyone of them yours????

Both are an accurate description of two of the editions.

 

[Cartophilium]

Card Prices Update and the Rookie Card Phenomena

In 1980 a competing publication to The Sport Americana group of guides, Card Prices Update was sued by Denny Eckes and James Beckett III for copyright infringement. The final resolution was in 1984 at the appeal court level:
http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/551728

Will not comment on the merits of the case but will say that Card Prices Update brought the "Rookie Card" phenomena to the hobby in 1981.

Needing a vehicle to drive sales and justify increased frequency of publication, Card Prices Update flogged performance of the two outstanding baseball rookies of 1981 Fernando Valenzuela and Tim Raines as pricing motors. Each win or stolen base created an illusion of higher demand and a greater necessity of a monthly baseball price guide with prices showing artificial upward and downward movement based on performance. Since rookies did not have a prior or long history it worked and extended to other baseball rookies and eventually over time slipped over to the other sports.

 

[penguinpr]

I can only imagine the things you witnessed in the formative years of what became today's hobby. I've been actively attending shows since 1989, worked in the hobby media and also with the manufacturers. I've seen a lot of interesting things over the past few years but it is my love for the hobby itself that keeps me going.

I remember that you advertised in the hockey news starting in the late-70s and your books made me appreciate vintage hockey cards like few others my age do. A lot of people have fond memories of growing up with the books and always wanted them to continue into the boom years.

Could you elaborate on your involvement with the Hockey Hall of Fame sets from 1983 and 1987?

 

[Cartophilium]

Hockey Hall of Fame Sets

I can only imagine the things you witnessed in the formative years of what became today's hobby. I've been actively attending shows since 1989, worked in the hobby media and also with the manufacturers. I've seen a lot of interesting things over the past few years but it is my love for the hobby itself that keeps me going.

I remember that you advertised in the hockey news starting in the late-70s and your books made me appreciate vintage hockey cards like few others my age do. A lot of people have fond memories of growing up with the books and always wanted them to continue into the boom years.

Could you elaborate on your involvement with the Hockey Hall of Fame sets from 1983 and 1987?

Again thank you for the kind comments.

Let's get thru the price guide issue and as time permits I will expand into other areas that will require distinct threads.

PS - could you PM me with your identity. Always had a high degree of curiosity.

 

[JTMcCool]

Very interesting comments. I look forward to hearing more.

 

[hextall27]

I remember the blue one. I think I got it one christmas maybe 88-89 and it was packaged with some older topps cards, a binder and some sheets. A sort of beginners kit, sold through the Sears wishbook.

Does this sound familiar to anyone.

Peter

 

[penguinpr]

I remember those from the Sears catalogue... I think there was a baseball one as well.

I think one of my coolest childhood Christmastime memories is getting a 77-78 WHA set in my stocking in 1986. I traded them away for older cards a few months later! Bad idea since it was a sharp set but I eventually went out and got it again and had some cool older cards to boot.

When I was a teenager in the boom years, my parents would always wrap up a few wax boxes. My Grandmother went the extra mile one year and bought me a beautiful 1959-60 Ted Lindsay and a 1975-76 Mark Howe RC... still two of my favourite cards in my collection and I later had the Lindsay signed.

 

[Stadium Sports]

fasinating info. I have old guides burried away in boxes - I need to dig them out and see which ones we have.

 

[Cartophilium]

Promoting the Hobby

I remember the blue one. I think I got it one christmas maybe 88-89 and it was packaged with some older topps cards, a binder and some sheets. A sort of beginners kit, sold through the Sears wishbook.

Does this sound familiar to anyone.

Peter

We were involved in promotions with various partners starting in 1985. What you describe was definitely one of them though the season may be off a bit.

A couple of the issues actually went to second printings. Some indirect information that we received a few years ago was that the number of guides that we sold in th late 1980's surpassed the number of guides sold by different publishers in the late 1990's and on.

 

[Cartophilium]

Price Guides and the Cost of Cards - Part I

As various price guides flourished with the growth of the hobby, especially the boom years in the 1980's awareness of the value of cards grew. This awareness touched the various stratas of the the hockey world. The same was true for baseball, football, and basketball.

When I purchased my first pack of cards in 1958 - Topps CFL the cost was $0.05. Standard price for a pack of cards in the late fifties and into the sixties. Usually you received anywhere from 4-6 cards plus a stick of gum. Regardless of the number of cards or who the players were you got your money's worth. Even if we accept the old 1960 ACC listing of a few pennies per card the buyer came out ahead of the game.

Furthermore everyone in the chain made a profit out of the nickle. Working backwards - the corner store, the distributor, the manufacturer/printer, freight companies, the league, teams, players to say nothing of the expenses that were paid to employees and others. No one made alot but money was made.

Fast forward to app 1980. Packs are app. $0.25 -0.35, the buyer gets a handful of cards and per the new price guides regardless of the cards in the pack the buyer is ahead of the game. The profit chain referred to above still works.

This cycle holds well into the late 1980's. But certain eyes are starting to open and they do not like what they are seeing.

By the late 1980's the manufacturers, leagues, teams, players, agents, etc had realized by looking at the market and studying the price guides that the following was happening.

Cards that were bought for a mere penny or pennies in some cases were selling for well over $100.00 yet they were getting their share of profits based on mere pennies. The purchaser of the pack of cards was best positionned in the marketplace to make incredible profits. In the eyes and minds of the manufacturers, leagues, teams, players, agents and the like this had to change drastically.

The question was how was this change going to come about? By 1982 Cartophilium had diversified into other products and services - souvenirs, apparel, customizing and fundraising. Starting in 1984 if everything card related - new/old issues, the price guide/magazine, the supplies, the auction
was lumped together it amounted to app 15-20% of gross revenues. Apparel was the motor. Simply it was easy to sell - everyone has a positive habit of wearing clothes. By 1988 player agents for the stars were approaching the various apparel manufacturers with a new approach - include the players name,image,number,facisimile autograph on a t-shirt, cap, sweatshirt etc and years down the road it will not be a rag but a valuable collectible "Rookie T-Shirt" etc. After some laughs and polite/not so polite refusals they realized that applying hockey card approaches to apparel or other categories would not fly. So they turned their efforts to adjusting the hockey card market in their favor.

In Part II - I will look at how this came about.

 

[jetsman]

Carto,

I remember having a Winnipeg Jets tee-shirt as a kid with characitures of players on it. I know Hawerchuk was one, but I can't remember the others for certain (I believe Paul MacLean, Thomas Steen and Laurie Boschman were the others though). I think these were made by Western Lotteries Corp., because I recall there also being a Flames one. Do you know anything about these?

Interesting to know the roots of hobby pricing and media. Like Penguinpr, I've worked for years in the hobby media and with companies from time to time. Unfortunately I'm too young to remember your publication but would love to see any scans you have of them.

I don't know if you'll discuss this or not, but were you ever involved with the Charlton guide or were they a full-out competitor?

 

[Cartophilium]

T-Shirts

Carto,

I remember having a Winnipeg Jets tee-shirt as a kid with characitures of players on it. I know Hawerchuk was one, but I can't remember the others for certain (I believe Paul MacLean, Thomas Steen and Laurie Boschman were the others though). I think these were made by Western Lotteries Corp., because I recall there also being a Flames one. Do you know anything about these?

Interesting to know the roots of hobby pricing and media. Like Penguinpr, I've worked for years in the hobby media and with companies from time to time. Unfortunately I'm too young to remember your publication but would love to see any scans you have of them.

I don't know if you'll discuss this or not, but were you ever involved with the Charlton guide or were they a full-out competitor?

T-shirts. From your description by Woody's, a Winnipeg based company. Western Lotteries may have been involved in regional promos but I do not recall them ever having a license as that was not their niche.

Charlton was after we stopped publishng the guide.

Scans. Archives are in storage. If I have a bit of time and there is a demand
I could scan items from some of the more popular topics. Easier to do in quantity then bit by bit.

 

[jetsman]

From what I remember, it was something either with Scratch-n-wins or break-opens, where if you collected enough of the tabs with your team, you could send away for a shirt.

Cool stuff, I hope there's enouhg interest to see the guides

 

[leafs4_cup]

This is a really cool thread, thanks for sharing some of your experiences with us. I look forward to reading more.