How long until Panini dethrones Upperdeck in the hockey market?

[nybravest]

I know UD is on top of every sport but after seeing prime and the preview of dominion i just cant see panini not coming out on top. pretty much every patch is insane. it also seems like your getting a nice hit out of "most" of the boxes/packs. take the cup for example and your not coming remotely close to the price of a tin unless you hit a arp 99 or a shield/tag card. thoughts and comments?

 

[g-force]

Considering Panini now has some of what were Upper Deck's top employees, I think it will be pretty quick. However, Upper Deck has name recognition and tradition which is always tough to overcome. How many people build the base UD set as a staple every year, similar to OPC back in the day?

 

[Reddrgn88]

It happened about 2 days ago when people started to realize they are tired of the same old boring overpriced **** UD keeps churning out for $500 a pack...

 

[ronbev765]

The sooner the better. But please not until I get all the redemptions they still owe me.
ronbev765

 

[Burner]

Until Panini can dethrone Young Guns, Future Watch and Cup RC, it's going to be a while until they're #1.

'till now, Score, Contenders and Dominion aren't cutting it, though Dominion is make a good run at Cup Rookies

 

[suitman19]

Until Panini can dethrone Young Guns, Future Watch and Cup RC, it's going to be a while until they're #1.

This!

When Dominion ARP's sell anywhere near The Cup prices you will have your answer. The first real test for Panini Dominion is coming up quickly - the SRP for Dominion seems to be at the $350 mark this year. Let's see if it can keep it's selling price or if we have a repeat of last year.

So far this year - every Panini product I have looked at except for Prime has gone down in price pretty quickly. Seems as most of UD's have as well.

 

[canucksfan77]

Already there. The small crew i run with busted alot of ud product. Now its ufc and panini all around. Doesnt really matter what people say. Just go to your local watering hole or card show and see what the "collectors" are cracking. Not alot of ud bei g broken round here.

The boys may be right about young guns spa and cup rookies but when you look at value 4 dollar high end panini is decent, high end ud products are horrendous.

My 2 cents.

Jz

 

[FrozenInferno]

Speaking as one of the apparent minority who doesn't care about rookie cards, and who is more interested in quality memorabilia, Panini is overtaking Upper Deck. Unique jerseys, incredible patches, and behind-the-scenes peeks into the acquisitions and production process through the Knight's Lance that you would NEVER see from Upper Deck. Being open to collectors and showing us what goes on behind closed doors goes a long way towards earning trust. God knows what kind of evils go on behind UD's doors if they are too afraid to open up to us.

I've come to trust Panini's memorabilia almost as much as I trust ITG, and that's a pretty high standard.

But if rookie cards are all that matter then yeah, Upper Deck's brand awareness will carry them for a little bit longer but Panini has the resources and hobby minds at their disposal to turn things around pretty quick.

 

[iidaemmi]

It seem's that The Cup sell very strongly and so is secondary market.
The future will show, but at the moment, Upper Deck is clearly number 1, no doubt.

Harri

 

[canucksftw19]

Its been said already..but until the Young Guns amongst the CUP rookies are dethroned...UD will continue to win.

At the moment, UD does sell (especially RCs), much better on the secondary market.

The less avid collectors request Upper Deck 9 times out of 10, compared to Panini....the vast majority of the people have followed UD since its inception and newer people still see UD has the benchmark in numerous categories (for better or worse depending on your view).



On a personal note, I much prefer UD at this point. Both companies have had some solid products. But overall I find Upper Deck to have a much cleaner design; and create amazing insert cards. With Jersey and Game worn items at all time lows, its nice to see innovative pure insert cards.

 

[thorn]

It seem's that The Cup sell very strongly and so is secondary market.
The future will show, but at the moment, Upper Deck is clearly number 1, no doubt.

Harri

+1, Upper Deck is ruling the markets.

 

[go_leafs]

Rookie cards wise, UD is still king

But panini is making some outstanding memorabilia inserts

 

[paulxing]

when panini can get you gretzky autos, then it will have a shot. UD doesn't even have an NBA license and they crushed Panini this year. Why? Because of MJ.

 

[enforcersonly]

Im not sure they will overtake UD. For me, UD's designs are way superior... to be fair, I don't care too much, I don't bust boxes. Good luck to whoever "wins".

Slightly off topic but, I want ITG to get a license (licence) - THEN you'll see someone overtake UD/Panini whoever stays in the mix.

 

[ncm7772]

UD still has better valueon the secondary market. Yes Prime was/is a great release and Dominion 11-12 looks to be great too, but look at Dominion 10-11: $300+ a box, and selling for extremely low prices on the secondary market. Not to mention Panini's doo-doo products like Crown Royale, Limited, Certified, etc.

 

[Drewphoria]

The NHL Lockout might take care of it.
The last lock-out changed the hockey hobby landscape... this one might do it again.

 

[quincy]

I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. UD has primacy and tradition backing them, and it's going to be a long time beofre Panini can make significant headway in eroding those two supports. They've definitely stepped up their game - hiring Karvin, overhauling their processes - but they have a way to go.

It's important to remember that we here in the online community are a small wedge of the overall market.

 

[Stadium Sports]

yes, we are a small sample size (aka wedge) however you have to make some assumptions that we are (in general terms) representative of the collecting world participants.

If you take this site, we have everything from the new collector to the seasoned collector; the folks who enjoy the idea of just collecting to the folks who "need" the best of the best; show dealers to hobby shops to representatives of the manufacturers...

I would suggest that although UD sales are significant, I would say that UD in itself is not the TOP DOG in hockey cards based on sales in our store and what I watch broken on here.

What I am seeing in my store (and in breaks on here) is a steady increase in the popularity of PANINI and ITG.

I would suggest that we are seeing a strong presence of products from all the manufacturers now. I am not saying we will see the selection of products we saw in 2002 (Topps, BAP/ITG, Pacific, UD) but with that level of competition, it did drive innovation - something we are seeing again.

I would prefer 3 healthy companies. Will Panini ever out sell UD1 & 2..? Not likely - but they have shown the world they can co-exist with UD and ITG. ITG has shown from day 1 (and later without a formal licence) that they can and will provide interesting and desirable product.

Personal Opinion - Now some might argue Brian has a following on this site but the results we see in the store are largely due to the efforts he puts into the products and the promotions they run to keep his products in the stores. It must be effective as UD and Panini both are running events in stores - something that was missing for many years)

As a store owner, I hope they provide a level of competition to each other that promotes overall growth in the hobby....

 

[mortuus]

I dont think anyone will take away UD dominance and card values really.. maybe if they close one day then panini will be number one but for now their secondary market value and their sets are not even close to stuff like Cup and top rookies that sell for 2,5k$ good luck getting that kind of money from panini rookies or something, aint gonna happen.

 

[canucksftw19]

I would prefer 3 healthy companies. Will Panini ever out sell UD1 & 2..? Not likely - but they have shown the world they can co-exist with UD and ITG. ITG has shown from day 1 (and later without a formal licence) that they can and will provide interesting and desirable product.

A little off-topic:

For me this is a give and take situation. Healthy competition from different companies can be a grand thing.

What I have noticed however is competition taking the value out of a break. This may sound odd of sorts, but the bottom line doesnt lie.

UD and Panini have been trying more and more to give the general collecting and card community something that each really wants, especially in GU'd with many more cards having great swatches/patches. If you are purely in for the break and keeping every card, its an awesome thing (Prime, Cup etc...), with more products having crazy nice patches. Asthetically its great to look at, but a simple supply and demand chart will show the basic correlation for too much of a good thing. Collectors are to blame for this as well, no doubt... Prime had some unbelievable pieces, but with too many out there, the value of each is extremelly low for the quality of the patch. The value of the "crazy" or multi-coloured patch has been extremelly hurt of late....

In short lol, overall competition is good, but reign in how it is done. The view is too much short term and not enough about longevity of a product.

Had a few thoughts in the head, needed a small rant to clear it, didnt come out as clean as I wanted....anyway, ....