Sidney Crosby Top-5 All-Time, but Top-3?

[cburt]

Beliveau - 10 Stanley Cups as player five as Captain, total of 17 as player and executive - loved by all of North America

By the opinion of many he's a top ten guy. Most of those Cups were won during the Original Six era, which when you compare the league of today - the one Crosby plays in, it is a much harder league to win Cups in. You had a team like Montreal which was so dominant but there wasn't as much competition - only five other teams.

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

I see your point but don't really agree. Just imagine an NHL now with 6 teams, think of how great those teams would be. There are so many great players out there, if they were all fighting for jobs on 6 teams instead of 31, training camps would certainly be fun. Just think of only 6 starting goalies and 6 back ups, the AHL would be deadly lol.

By the opinion of many he's a top ten guy. Most of those Cups were won during the Original Six era, which when you compare the league of today - the one Crosby plays in, it is a much harder league to win Cups in. You had a team like Montreal which was so dominant but there wasn't as much competition - only five other teams.

 

[TheGriceBoys]

I see your point but don't really agree. Just imagine an NHL now with 6 teams, think of how great those teams would be. There are so many great players out there, if they were all fighting for jobs on 6 teams instead of 31, training camps would certainly be fun. Just think of only 6 starting goalies and 6 back ups, the AHL would be deadly lol.

I agree with cburt, MUCH harder to win nowadays, much more difficult. It's simple math, with only 6 teams you have a DAMN good chance of winning versus a league of 30. And there was no parity through talent levels and salary constraints which is why you had a Canadiens team like you did.

Crosby is probably hovering around top 5 or in the top 5 depending whom you ask. I think that is probably something agreed upon across the board now among pundits and fans alike.

 

[ChuckNorrisFearsSid]

I'm a Pens fan and Crosby fan, but bear with me. The Gretzky era of hockey will NEVER return so to use Gretz' point and goal totals as a benchmark I feel is unfair. If you stand firm on that, you can then say no one ever, EVER, will be better than Gretzky and he's the best player forever. Those types of stats simply are IMPOSSIBLE now. Does that mean Gretzky is just that much better than anyone else will ever be or is? I don't think that's fair.

Can anyone imagine Ovechkin's goal totals if he played in the 80s with the size of goalies and if he was off limits to hit? His shot, his SOG numbers, and the size of the goalies I'm thinking he probably had at least a few 100+ goal seasons.

Can anyone imagine Crosby in Gretz' place on those Oiler teams? I honestly think his numbers at the very least are right there but my heart of hearts says he surpasses those numbers. Some of the things Crosby does with the puck, his passing, his reception of passes, is really incredible.

Difficult argument, and the development of players now versus then is also dramatically different, and this always makes for a great discussion but I really don't think comparing stats and using that as an end all isn't fair.


Side note, how would Gretzky have handled taking the beating Crosby has taken?

 

[Moose#11]

way too many factors to compare players from different era's make these debates purely biased speculation.for example,put Crosby on the ice during Gretzky's era on the same 80's skates with a wood or aluminum stick in a clutch,grab and basically be a target for guys like Barber,Gillies and the like.would he score the same as Gretzky? would Gretzky score twice as many career points being in Crosby's era of better equipment,speedy wingers and defensemen who cant take one hand off their stick to slow you down entering the zone.
personally i judge players in the era they played.Crosby is the best of his generation,Mcdavid is quickly becoming the best in his.but All-Time greats,there is a long list ahead of them.

 

[oasis]

i could put crosby in top 10 today and maybe top five by end of career bu so much can happen between now and then. sadly 10+ years does not a career make. He may end up #1 or 2 cant predict these things can only watch them unfold! Ive seen some great players in my 55 years on this earth and saw video or heard stories of the players before my time. I always thought it best to rank players by era because that seemed the fairest. In the era of expansion Crosby can be mentioned with the likes of Gretzky and Mario, but im not sure where he'd fit in the Howe era

 

[30ranfordfan]

The Hockey News just had an article on this (I got my issue yesterday). The argument was that he belongs in the conversation as one of the top 5 players, ever.... I think there may have been a (slightly biased) quote from Rutherford suggesting he's one of the best 3 or 4 players ever.

Most lists have Gretzky #1... Orr & Howe #s 2 & 3 (in some order)... Lemieux #4, and Richard #5.

I do not think counting stats has a ton of merit. 1 goal for Crosby is not the same as it was for Gretzky, or any of the others on that list. Eras are very different... so it's never going to be as simple as just comparing totals.

Has he passed one or more of the legends on that top 5 list... in terms of being an all time great? Maybe? I don't know that it really matters all that much. I never watched 3 of those 5 play, so I can't really be sure in my own assessment - but I can say that Crosby has EASILY been the best player of his generation, and goes down as an all time great.

Is he one of the best 5? 10? I don't know. Probably, but it's hard to quantify.

 

[TheGriceBoys]

The Hockey News just had an article on this (I got my issue yesterday). The argument was that he belongs in the conversation as one of the top 5 players, ever.... I think there may have been a (slightly biased) quote from Rutherford suggesting he's one of the best 3 or 4 players ever.

Most lists have Gretzky #1... Orr & Howe #s 2 & 3 (in some order)... Lemieux #4, and Richard #5.

I do not think counting stats has a ton of merit. 1 goal for Crosby is not the same as it was for Gretzky, or any of the others on that list. Eras are very different... so it's never going to be as simple as just comparing totals.

Has he passed one or more of the legends on that top 5 list... in terms of being an all time great? Maybe? I don't know that it really matters all that much. I never watched 3 of those 5 play, so I can't really be sure in my own assessment - but I can say that Crosby has EASILY been the best player of his generation, and goes down as an all time great.

Is he one of the best 5? 10? I don't know. Probably, but it's hard to quantify.

Richard doesn't get in the Top 5, but that's me. The other 4 all have a case, Gretzky is undeniably my #1. I know lots of folks like to pump Orr's tires big and YUGE, but he is not #1. He was amazing but just not quite Gretzky. Howe was the total package and Lemieux may have some of 99's records if his health were better.

We can all go back and forth all day era this, equipment that, players now, then, goalie pads, etc. It is probably best to judge a player by the era he plays in and Sid is clearly the best of his era, as was TGO, Orr, etc.

But you have to rank them overall at some point. I thought about it more this way rather than era vs era and hypothesis. I think then a guy like Lemieux gets bumped in favor of Sid in the overall, he probably falls to 6 on my list.

I believe the top 4 are of 4 different eras; Gretzky is my #1, Howe is my #2, Orr is my #3 and I currently have Crosby at #4. Goalies make it tricky for sure, I almost want to have a separate list for them. That said, I probably have Roy as my #5.

So go ahead, throw stones, heckle, chuckle, I DGAF, that's my top 5 right now and I love this debate.

Deuces!

 

[C55]

Maybe top 10 when he finishes his career. No where close to Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemieux, or Hasek.

 

[Oilersareback]

I believe the top 4 are of 4 different eras; Gretzky is my #1, Howe is my #2, Orr is my #3 and I currently have Crosby at #4. Goalies make it tricky for sure, I almost want to have a separate list for them. That said, I probably have Roy as my #5.

goalies are important, not tricky. In my top 10 I have the same number of netminders as skaters.
No way Sid ever surpasses Jacques Plante. Not just for on ice, but how he revolutionized the game.
Also no way his resume is close to Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, or Hasek.
And how can you forget Georges Vezina and Terry Sawchuk.
Add Orr, Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Rocket, Beliveau, Dryden, Lafleur, Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Morenz Jagr and Sid falls out of the top 15.
I'm a hockey fan, not a Crosby fan. I take an objective view based on a 50 year study of hockey history.

I thought about it more this way rather than era vs era and hypothesis

If you do that then you give more weight to this sad era than you should.

 

[TheGriceBoys]

goalies are important, not tricky. In my top 10 I have the same number of netminders as skaters.
No way Sid ever surpasses Jacques Plante. Not just for on ice, but how he revolutionized the game.
Also no way his resume is close to Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, or Hasek.
And how can you forget Georges Vezina and Terry Sawchuk.
Add Orr, Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Rocket, Beliveau, Dryden, Lafleur, Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Morenz Jagr and Sid falls out of the top 15.
I'm a hockey fan, not a Crosby fan. I take an objective view based on a 50 year study of hockey history.


If you do that then you give more weight to this sad era than you should.

I don't think any era of hockey is "sad", they're just different, hockey is a fantastic and timeless game.

I have watched hockey since about 1980, that's as far back as my memories go. I've seen a lot in that time but outside of highlights, it is very hard for me to compare what I have seen live in my lifetime versus the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and farther back.

It's always nice to look at stats and accolades on paper but hard to truly judge unless you have seen it yourself.

That's my list, others have theirs, it's fun to read the banter, each to their own.

 

[sprague11]

These lists are always subjective. I don't think there's any way to compare Sid to Rocket Richard, Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore, or any goaltender really (Goalies should have their own lists).

Is Crosby "greater" than Rocket Richard? errrr... depends who you ask? If Sid played in the 50's or 80's maybe he gets his teeth knocked out by a Gordie Howe Elbow or a Dave Semenko punch and never plays again. Hard to say. Is he as Iconic now as a Richard, Howe, Gretzky, Orr, etc? No way, but in another couple decades those who saw Richard play will be gone and people will look at Sid the way we look at Richard and look at Richard the way we look at Eddie Shore - can;t really say since we didn't see him play.

Is Sid the best player in the NHL right now? I'd say there's a very good case for that. All time? He'd be in my top 25, probably top 10 when all is said and done.