UFC 104: Shogun vs. the Dragon

[2fnlo]

This has potential for fight of the year IMO. And friends, do NOT and I mean do not underestimate Shogun. He hasn't been overly stellar so far in the UFC, but I assure you when the time is right he can BRING IT.

Its going to be a war.

 

[canucksfreak19]

Here's the entire card for tonight:

Main Card:
UFC Light Heavyweight Championship
Lyoto Machida (No. 1 LHW, No. 4 PFP) vs. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (No. 4 LHW)

Ben Rothwell vs. Cain Velasquez
Josh Neer vs. Gleison Tibau
Spencer Fisher vs. Joe Stevenson
Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

Spike TV Undercard Fights
Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
Patrick Barry vs. Antoni Hardonk

Non-Televised Undercard
Yushin Okami (No. 3 MW) vs. Chael Sonnen (No. 9 MW)
Chase Gormley vs. Stefan Struve
Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons
Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan

For some reason they put Anthony Johnson on the main card instead of Okami. I know Okami doesn't put on the most thrilling fights but neither did Machida until a couple of fights ago. Instead they put the athletically gifted Johnson who in an interview admitted that he came into camp at 220 lbs, that's fifty pounds more than he fights at, and in the least shocking moment of the weigh-ins he weighed in 6 pounds over the 170 weight limit.

 

[bkrysko]

I am extremely stoked for this card like you wouldn't believe............and I have to miss it, luckily I can watch it tomorrow but I have to avoid any news about it all night and most of the day tomorrow. Which will be hard as I'm setting up at the Toronto show. Now time for some predictions!

Machida/Shogun

I simply can not see Machida losing this fight. He's great at avoiding takedowns and strikes. That pretty much nullifies everything Shogun has. I'm saying The Dragon takes it by KO in round 3. Although you can never truly rule out Shogun who can abruptly
end it if Machida makes one mistake.

Velasquez/Rothwell

I don't know much about Rothwell but I do not like this guy. Personality or style. He seems to be very one dimensional and thats striking. Velasquez showed in the Kongo fight he's got a good chin. If this fight goes to the ground, Rothwell is in trouble. I'm saying Velasquez takes it by TKO in the 1st round.

Tibau/Neer

Neither of these guys impress me and both somewhat have a history of losing important fights. I flipped a coin, Neer takes it.

Stevenson/Fisher

My early prediction for Fight of the night. This one is going to be a barn burner and entertaining the whole way through. However, I think Joe Daddy's ground game will be the deciding element. If he can keep Fisher on his back then he'll take it. If not I like Fisher better on the feet. I'm saying Joe Daddy by submission in the 2nd round.

Johnson/Yoshida

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Yoshida but I do know Johnson and he has some lethal hands. I'm saying he takes it by unanimous decision. Coming in 6 pounds heavier doesn't hurt either. :sigh:

Bader/Schafer

This is arguably the fight I'm looking forward to the most. One of my favourite fighters Ryan 'Darth' Bader is finally fighting in a big show. I know nothing of Schafer other then he's a submissions guy. Darth has great stand up and great wrestling so I think he takes this one by KO in round 2.

 

[Cam98]

rigged as much as i wanted Machida to win, those body and knee kicks were brutal from Shogun he should of won, but whatever i hope to see a rematch before ufc 110

 

[canucksfreak19]

I thought Shogun won. But when that final bell went I said to everyone at my place Machida will get the decision. There needs to be more clear rules laid out for MMA judging. After the fight you could hear Dana saying to Shogun I thought you had it. I would be absolutely stunned if there weren't a rematch as soon as they were both healthy, which for Machida may be a while after all of those leg kicks that he took.

 

[Fisher12]

Shogun was robbed. Machida might have won 2 rounds at most.

Also, very impressive performance by Velasquez.

 

[Turtlelo]

I had Rounds 1 & 2 going to Shogun, 3 barely went to Machida, and 4 & 5 were certainly in Shogun's favor. I think Shogun was robbed! I am going to call Cecil peoples tomorrow and ask him about his scores and why he thought Machida won.

 

[canucksfreak19]

I had Rounds 1 & 2 going to Shogun, 3 barely went to Machida, and 4 & 5 were certainly in Shogun's favor. I think Shogun was robbed! I am going to call Cecil peoples tomorrow and ask him about his scores and why he thought Machida won.

I'm listening to Sherdog right now, and they said a while back that Cecil Peoples scored rounds 1-3 for Machida, and rounds 4-5 for Shogun.

 

[DionPhaneufAuthentic]

im happy machida won but i also think he got robbed... i fee the same way right now as the fight were griffin beet rampage...

i think machida won because you have to beat a champion to be a champion

overall i think shogun got robbed and i really hope machida will improve his striking

 

[HartMantha]

IMO: Dana White has favorites and is working to push the guys he wants to stay he wants... UFC is Real I get that, but it is starting to feel a little bit more and more like WWE... Griffin winning was his way of saying "The Ultimate Fighter" works as Griffin clearly didn't win, just like to night Sho Gun owned Machida as much as people want to deny it

 

[2fnlo]

Cecil Peoples is an idiot for starters, when there is a botched call you can guarantee to see CP on the judging line. No offense if you are friends Turtlelo.

Anyone who thought Machida won is insane. Shogun just showed the world how to beat Machida, and was robbed bad.

Forrest
Bisping
and now Machida....

I am not usually a conspiracy theorist, but geez, it's starting to put a black mark on the UFC.

 

[Big Tall]

The people who screwed up are in Shogun's corner who consistently told him he was way ahead on the scorecards, which led to him not pressing any kind of sustained attack in the later rounds. If he'd even been told it was close he may have picked up that extra point in the 4th or 5th to hand him a much-deserved win.

 

[Turtlelo]

Cecil Peoples is an idiot for starters, when there is a botched call you can guarantee to see CP on the judging line. No offense if you are friends Turtlelo.

Yep, Cecil's a very good friend of mine, and believe me, I do know that his judging is questioned a lot. But this one can't be blamed on him, there were two other judges that called the fight the same way.

Cecil takes a lot of heat for his judging, but if you ever ask him about a questionable fight he scored, he will man up and explain why he scored it like that. Everytime I have questioned him about something like that, he's made me see things in a different light, and I understand the way he saw it.

 

[2fnlo]

Yep, Cecil's a very good friend of mine, and believe me, I do know that his judging is questioned a lot. But this one can't be blamed on him, there were two other judges that called the fight the same way.

Cecil takes a lot of heat for his judging, but if you ever ask him about a questionable fight he scored, he will man up and explain why he scored it like that. Everytime I have questioned him about something like that, he's made me see things in a different light, and I understand the way he saw it.

Fair enough, I will give the credit that it is hard to criticize without getting an explanation.

Still in this instance the evidence is overwhelming.

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker -- Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Rua
Brian Knapp scores the round 10-9 Rua
Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Rua

I can't find Dana's own scoring, but post conference he also stated he thought Shogun had won.

 

[2fnlo]

Cecil Peoples:

“First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn’t effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight – if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don’t do that.”

“When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as ununsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I’m just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I’m sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too.”

CageReport.net Source.

I guess running away in the cage earns you points? Funny how he claims the live tv audience couldn't see Machida's wicked pressing offense.

This is what I saw:

I guess from other angles if I were there ringside it might have looked different.

:banned::banned::banned::banned:

 

[canucksfreak19]

I'm sorry, but that explanation is pathetic. Any commission that reads this should strongly consider revoking Mr. Peoples' judging credentials.

*Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyotos diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don’t do that.*

This is a very flawed argument as Shogun's attack was not as one dimensional as this quote would have someone believe. And to negate the significance of the leg kicks as they're not trying to end the fight is a joke, because they dramatically altered Lyoto's supposed diverse attack by the third round.
Apparently if you're not throwing head shot after head shot Cecil Peoples doesn't think that you're trying to end a fight.

*When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua.*

Because Lyoto wasn't throwing as much and still landing some shots that counts for more in Mr. Peoples' eyes than throwing and landing more? I guess you could say that if you are completely disregarding the leg kicks like he seems to have done.

*Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as ununsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly.*

I'll start with the one point that I agree with him. Based on the takedown defence you could say that Lyoto won the effective grappling category in the judging criteria.

Now to what in my opinion is the most egregious explanation. Lyoto made Shogun come after him? Really? This statement says one of two things:
Either Mr. Peoples has seen too many Lyoto Machida fights; or
He has not seen any Shogun fights.
Lyoto may have been parrying like he always does, but Shogun was stalking down his opponent like he always does. To say that Machida made Shogun come to him is pretty ignorant. Because Shogun would walk down anybody. So I believe that this argument is flawed beyond a point of rational understanding. So one more question and then I'm done. I want to make sure I have this right. Machida got Shogun to come after him, and put him (Machida) in bad positions within the Octagon because that's what Machida wanted?. . . right.

 

[steen101984]

im happy machida won but i also think he got robbed... i fee the same way right now as the fight were griffin beet rampage...

i think machida won because you have to beat a champion to be a champion

overall i think shogun got robbed and i really hope machida will improve his striking

I hate when people use this arguement its the worst arguement ive ever heard. "Hey u won the fight but u didnt do enough to become champion" STUPID.

Machida is a boring fighter and he got infinitely lucky Shogun was robbed

I dont care if Josh "the Blanket" Koscheck were to lie on the champion for 5 rounds i wouldnt like it but he would win the fight and deserve the title.

 

[Kehfee]

i think machida won because you have to beat a champion to be a champion

That logic might carry weight if Forrest Griffin hadn't gotten the belt from Rampage.

 

[2fnlo]

i think machida won because you have to beat a champion to be a champion

That logic might carry weight if Forrest Griffin hadn't gotten the belt from Rampage.

The UFC is incredibly inconstant, and I shouldn't really mean UFC as the judges aren't under contract with them. Still I know I won't be ordering any PPVs for a while, freaking way to sickening to waste my money watching fighters protected.

 

[2fnlo]

Machida just became my most hated fighter. What a pompous piece of trash:

“I thought it was a very even and tough fight,” Machida said. “I had the opportunity to see the fight again and I thought I won four rounds and Shogun took the last one. Some people say he won the fourth and fifth round, but for sure I won at least the first three rounds. The American commentators were pretty much biased. If you see the fight without audio, you will probably see a different fight.

“Shogun was a great opponent and had a nice strategy. He deserves all my respect as a fighter, but I was superior. I had three or four chances to finish the fight, and he never put me in danger. I didn’t get (dazed) at any moment of the fight, but I put him in danger three or four times. He kicked my legs a couple of times, but he wouldn’t knock me out with that.”

Machida guaranteed that his disappointed expression immediately after the fight did not stem from a belief that he had lost.

“My leg started to hurt in the fifth round, and I was very upset that I couldn’t knock him out as I had planned,” Machida said. “I had two chances where I felt him really (dazed), but I lost it and I get really upset when I leave the decision in the judges’ hands.”

After confirming that he totally agrees with a rematch, Machida also addressed UFC President Dana White’s statement that he thought Shogun was the winner.

“Anyone who has a mouth can talk. I respect his opinion and I’m ready to fight Shogun or any other challenger UFC decides, but I would like to say that this fight was not judged by myself, my father or Anderson Silva,” Machida said. “This fight was judged by professionals, so I’m pretty much comfortable with the result.”

After taking two weeks vacation in Hawaii with his family, Lyoto is planning to return to his training routine in Belém.

“It’s time to celebrate the win and relax from the hard training routine,” he said. “After that I will check what happened to my hand (it’s hurt), if it needs some surgery, then analyze my mistakes in this fight carefully with my family to restart my training routine. No matter who is my next opponent, I’ll give some rest to my mind and body and return 100 percent to the training to get ready for my next challenge. If it’s Shogun again, I’ll study his game and make a different strategy to please the fans with a better fight.”

Taken from Sherdog.