newfiecomicguy1
Transactions, Hockey & Comic Book Moderator, April
Been reading and watching all these Vault threads. I have to ask are these all buyback or old overstock cards? Sorry if this has been already discussed.
Vault
- Thread starter newfiecomicguy1
- Start date
Boom Boom
Verified Trader,
Seems to be a mix of both.
newfiecomicguy1
Transactions, Hockey & Comic Book Moderator, April
I have noticed a massive amount of cards that was once tough to find, some sp. As long as you don't mind a V stamped on your card Roy and Yzerman autos seem fairly easy to find. I don't know if they were scarce or just all bought up as they are so popular. Cool for buyers as I noticed a lot of cards I couldn't find are now available. I picked up a few Lindros and Potvin items.
neo1370
Verified Trader,
The majority of them are from replacement stock or cards that weren't received in time for pack out. Some others are from replacement stock that was sold, placed on the market, and then bought back.
A lot of stuff is hard signed and game used so really you can't complain. Some nice cards for sure.
A lot of stuff is hard signed and game used so really you can't complain. Some nice cards for sure.
newfiecomicguy1
Transactions, Hockey & Comic Book Moderator, April
I love it, hard to find stuff available at decent prices. I haven't seen some of these cards in 10-15 years and back then they were scarce or too expensive to buy. I'm not a big fan of the expo style V stamp but oh well. I wonder what the long term value will be for these and if it will hurt the sp regular versions of certain cards.
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
Mix of both. And I don't mind the stamp, I mean, it's the exact same card. I'll be picking some Enroth cards that I don't have, plus maybe a few Vault duplicates. Some great cards included!
Leafsfan1967
Disgruntled Leafs Fan,
Scott, some of the autos from 02-03 BAP SS were mail-in redemptions. I know for sure Sundin, and Roy were, as I saw the actual redemptions that were in packs for those two guys. It is also possible Zetterberg was, and maybe Datsyuk, as well from that set. There may have been others. I guess a pile of them didn't get redeemed, or some of the redemptions are still in unopened packs, and boxes?
There have been several of the Sundin's, and a pile of Roys already on Ebay from Vault. Seems to be a lot of Datsyuk, too.
There have been several of the Sundin's, and a pile of Roys already on Ebay from Vault. Seems to be a lot of Datsyuk, too.
WatchMyBreaks
Registered Trader,
"Hard to find stuff for good at decent prices" kinda negates the hard to find angle of things. If someone wants a Roy autograph there are hundreds of options out there. That specific year, from that specific set should be hard to find like it was originally intended. I would definitely be annoyed if I paid a premium for a card like that when it originally came out.
Boom Boom
Verified Trader,
These are black stamped 1/1's which means "at least 6" in the product. Not really flooding the market. And as most of the originals are buried in PC's already, this gives the market a chance to pick a few up. If they were throwing dozens out there that would be a different story. Many dont care if there's a stamp on these, as thats the same auto as the card without the stamp, and will snap these up. If anything this may rekindle some interest out there in the original set and actually help after market singles sales from it.
Leafsfan1967
Disgruntled Leafs Fan,
These are black stamped 1/1's which means "at least 6" in the product. Not really flooding the market. And as most of the originals are buried in PC's already, this gives the market a chance to pick a few up. If they were throwing dozens out there that would be a different story. Many dont care if there's a stamp on these, as thats the same auto as the card without the stamp, and will snap these up. If anything this may rekindle some interest out there in the original set and actually help after market singles sales from it.
On the weekend, I counted about 15 stamped 02-03 Roy autos either listed, or sold from Ebay, and that is just ones from on there, who knows how many others haven't been listed? At least 6 is a pretty liberal estimate on their part. I'm not complaining, as I will be adding these to my collection at a decent price. I waited a long time for those Sundin autos to go live back when, and I paid $60ish for it, but it was the first one to market. I had several at one time. Just got a stamped one for $20.50, so I'm happy. Seems to be a lot of those, and Datsyuk, too.
Is there a list somewhere explaining the colour codes to the stamps? I'd like to see what they are, so I don't wait on something that has very few, and miss it.
As far as flooding the market, doesn't bother me at all the amounts we are seeing. The more there is of a certain card, is a better chance for us to get ones we want, and the more the cheaper they should be. I am a huge fan of this product. I don't bother with new products, this is right up my alley.
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
On the weekend, I counted about 15 stamped 02-03 Roy autos either listed, or sold from Ebay, and that is just ones from on there, who knows how many others haven't been listed? At least 6 is a pretty liberal estimate on their part. I'm not complaining, as I will be adding these to my collection at a decent price. I waited a long time for those Sundin autos to go live back when, and I paid $60ish for it, but it was the first one to market. I had several at one time. Just got a stamped one for $20.50, so I'm happy. Seems to be a lot of those, and Datsyuk, too.
Is there a list somewhere explaining the colour codes to the stamps? I'd like to see what they are, so I don't wait on something that has very few, and miss it.
As far as flooding the market, doesn't bother me at all the amounts we are seeing. The more there is of a certain card, is a better chance for us to get ones we want, and the more the cheaper they should be. I am a huge fan of this product. I don't bother with new products, this is right up my alley.
Here's a list of the stamping information:
https://prezsez.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/final-vault-releases/
There's more info in the blog post above, but here's the stamp summary for some of the GU stuff:
Game-Used Memorabilia Cards
Each Game-Used Memorabilia Card is stamped with a different V 1/1 colored foil stamp. The different foil color stamps are; Red, Blue, Green, Silver, Gold, Black, Pink, Purple, Copper and Teal.
Red 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there is at least one card in the product.
Blue 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least two cards in the product.
Green 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least three cards in the product.
Silver 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least four cards in the product.
Gold 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least five cards in the product.
Black 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least six cards in the product.
Pink 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least seven cards in the product.
Purple 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least eight cards in the product.
Copper 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are at least nine cards in the product.
Teal 1/1 Foil Stamp means that there are up to ten cards in the product.
Leafsfan1967
Disgruntled Leafs Fan,
Thanks for that, Crease! :beer:
timber09
www.lumberjackcards.com,
Keep in mind that those are the numbers for the Game Used Memorabilia cards. The autos are all (or the stark majority) are stamped black but that means very little to the overall print run.
zackmak
New Member, Must Send First
Regarding the value of these 'Final Vault' memorabilia cards, I've always wondered, in THEORY, wouldn't these 1/1 Final Vault stamped cards be more valuable than their original, unstamped release from a few years back, simply from the reality that these Vault cards of each player are fewer in numbers (i.e. only two available to pull - the regular version and the 'red' version' for some cards; and still only eleven available to pull from the extreme end where a player has their regular version and all the 10 colours leading up to 'Teal')? Pulling the originals had way more cards of that same player to pull, correct? Way, way more than eleven copies, I'm assuming. So the Vault version would be more rare and theoretically, more valuable, no?
I'm just trying to gather the logic behind why some people don't like the Vault copies? Is it just because of the emotional tie to them having the original, and not seeing the Vault cards as NEW additions to a collection?
The Vault cards are essentially parallels by all sense of the term. And parallels are always worth more if they have a harder pack ratio to collect, from what I know.
From that 'parallel' angle, then, I can understand how the originals would decrease a bit in value. Maybe that's why some collector's are against Vault.
I'd love to hear more thoughts.
cygnusx1
Verified Trader,
Less valuable for several reasons.
1 - Original stated run was x amount of copies, now there are more. This upset many collectors as the perceived rarity was diminished. A lot of people actually started selling off their ITG cards once Vault was released.
2 - Hard to pull cards became easier to pull, i.e. a BAP Signature Series Auto Jersey /10 was more likely to be pulled if you open 100 packs of Vault vs 100 packs of Sig. Series
3 - Personal opinion? I steer away from Vault cards because I feel they're "not genuine" if that makes any sense. I can't really explain it, but I'd say it's akin to if you had to choose between a HG Young Guns of a player /10, or a show card Young Guns of a player /10. You wouldn't spend nearly the same amount.
SNobles
Patrick Roy BTP Collector,
I enjoy the Vault Roy mask cards only because I enjoy those cards so much from over the years.
Vault was a lot of fun to open and provided great value upon release.
I get way people who had rare and extensive ITG collections hated the release though.
Vault was a lot of fun to open and provided great value upon release.
I get way people who had rare and extensive ITG collections hated the release though.
zackmak
New Member, Must Send First
I agree with your point #1 - all of a sudden, new copies show up, kinda sucks. Them being 'parallel' cards, still doesn't soften the blow.
I also agree with your point #3 - it's like if OPC bought 10 Gretzky rookie cards from the aftermarket, put a stamp on them, and randomly put them in their 2020-21 series packs. Of course I'd rather have the original unstamped version...even though the stamped version would be MUCH MUCH harder to pull, in comparison to how many could have been pulled in 1979. So from that angle, this is the odd exception where rarity (i.e how hard it was to pull the stamped version) does not have as much weight as being an untouched original pulled from a 1979 pack.
Your #2 point, though, I'm a bit confused. From the original BAP/ITG checklists I've seen, those memorabilia cards had a higher production number. Anywhere from 10 - 200. The Final Vault had 10 and below runs. How would it be easier to pull those same cards from Final Vault packs if the production runs were primarily much smaller?
I guess I'm leaning towards accepting that the Final Vault cards are more rare, and for many players cards whose values are ho-hum, I would gladly take the Final Vault card over the original...but something about having the original for the MAJOR players, gives more value for me (and others, I bet). It's like the buying a re-issue Superman #1 comic....never going to be as valuable as the original.
So maybe people selling off their original cards were acting pre-maturely in frustration. Or didn't want to view these Vault cards as new parallels to add to their collection.
Either way, I also agree with SNobles. I'm glad the series came out because it offers a neat option for fans. It wasn't the first time 'buybacks' or extra stock were purchased and re-inserted in packs, and probably won't be the last.
cygnusx1
Verified Trader,
Final Vault didn't have base cards/HSHS redemption points, whereas regular ITG products had many of them. Rare cards were actually rare.
Think of it this way - If every card in the product (Vault) is /10 or less.... are they actually rare? In the original product, the /10 cards were huge chase cards. In a product where everything is limited, they no longer have a special quality to them.
jetsman
Verified Trader
Since I've stepped away from "value" as part of my collection and am concentrating only on getting cards to round out my collection, I've come to enjoy Vault a lot. I was able to pick up a Carlyle Jets Emblem on ComC for a song. I've also increased my Maxime Ouellet collection with a couple of these in the last year or so, and it's a fun way to build up that rainbow I thought I once completed.
I can see why rare card holders would be upset, but to me they're an easy way to fill holes in your colleciton.
I can see why rare card holders would be upset, but to me they're an easy way to fill holes in your colleciton.
MR.M's Cards
Verified Trader, Formerly: iheartjacquie
Here is why I hate vault/final vault. I have been chasing this card since it first came out:2006-07 ITG Heroes And Prospects He Shoots He Scores #HSHS39 Bobby Ryan/ Ted Lindsay
Attribute(s): Att: MEM /20
I have seen 1 copy in 14 years. I have also seen one vault copy. So there should have been 20 of the original made yet it is near impossible to find, but all of the sudden a version pops up with a stupid little V stamped in the corner
Was this vault copy one of the original 20 meaning my search just became that more harder? Or was there more then 20 made in the first place? Either way im not impressed
Attribute(s): Att: MEM /20
I have seen 1 copy in 14 years. I have also seen one vault copy. So there should have been 20 of the original made yet it is near impossible to find, but all of the sudden a version pops up with a stupid little V stamped in the corner
Was this vault copy one of the original 20 meaning my search just became that more harder? Or was there more then 20 made in the first place? Either way im not impressed
