When did the fall and and rise of hockey cards start?

[zackmak]

This topic came to me when reading another thread regarding the 'Card Sharks' book (discussing Upper Deck and their practices when they first started, and into the 90's).

Regarding strictly hockey cards (though I'm sure it applies to other sports cards as well) it's been well acknowledged that the 90's had an 'over-saturation' period, which in turn de-valued cards, and was one of the reasons hockey card collecting slowed down considerably.



The questions I'm wondering about are:



1. What exact year would people generally agree with on when this 'over-saturation' started? And what was the peak of it? Was the biggest factor that each set was huge with many inserts... or, that many series were produced at the same time? Or both played equally?

2. Would the card-collecting hobby have slowed down if the over-saturation didn't occur, in your opinion? Did card quality play a role? I wouldn't think so because all the sets that came out in the 90's were better quality than (or at least, on par with) the OPC/Topps stuff.

3. Was it basically one company (or one of the brands within that company i.e. ProSet the company also had the brands 'ProSet series' and 'Platinum series') that started the 'over-saturation'...which then had everyone else doing the same?

4. People talk about the 90's as the 'dark ages', if you will. But is it really ALL of that decade? If there was a start date to the 'dark ages', then wasn't there a period in the late 90's that things began getting better (in terms of less saturation and popularity of the hobby)? Or do late 90's cards unfortunately get clumped in with the early-mid cards that have become unattractive?

5. If it wasn't in the late 90's, what was the year that resurrected collecting and 'value'? Did one particular company/brand do it? Was it one particular series that came out? How much of a role did 'memorabilia' cards play in pulling the hobby up? And would 'memorabilia' and 'numbered inserts' lead to the death of collecting 'base' cards?

6. Out of curiosity, would the cards that came out before the 90's, be more attractive in terms of value and even popularity, as a general consensus? It's a shame regarding the values of a Brodeur and Jagr rookie, for example.




I basically started collecting in 1989 and went through all those early 90's years. But as a young fan, I didn't see the problem....I just liked the variety. So those years hold a certain appreciation in my heart, regardless of value. Besides, what choice did I (or anyone else, for that matter) have if I wanted to collect hockey cards during that time period?


I put down a lot of questions as I am running through my train of thought. But input on anything would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[drkicker]

Second year they did Proset.

Everybody was going for them at first, then you could find box for cheap at Zellers before Series 2 even came out.

2 Probably, they milked the cow

3 Everyone not making hockey cards to sell gum

4 Couldnt tell stopped in 93 or 94

5. Crosby rookie card year 05/06

 

[Maggot]

1990-91 was the beginning of over-printing. Things were under control by 1994-95 and that year featured some great cards. By 97-98 many of the inserts were numbered and seem to be having a small resurgence in value as a few collectors return to the hobby looking for nostalgia (like myself).
As already mentioned, 2005-06 was a boom year for obvious reasons.
I don't think GU cards have had any effect on the overall hobby.

 

[zackmak]

Thanks for the info, so far.

If memorabilia cards didn't have an effect back in the 90's, I would think by mid-2000's they steered the hobby quite a bit. It seems those type of cards - along with the insert-numbered cards/rookie cards - drive the market and is all people want nowadays. I remember reading a thread on this website that talked about how fewer people collect base cards.

 

[jogesc2]

Wasn't 89/90 OPC overproduced?

I thought that was the start of it.

 

[quincy]

My take:

1. What exact year would people generally agree with on when this 'over-saturation' started?
90-91 remains the gold standard for overproduction in the minds of many collectors. That wax is STILL available if you look for it. It is a testament to the greatness of the players who were rookies that year that their RCs are worth anything at all.

2. Would the card-collecting hobby have slowed down if the over-saturation didn't occur, in your opinion? Did card quality play a role?
Yes and no. it's cyclical. The peaks and troughs are getting wilder as of late.

3. Was it basically one company (or one of the brands within that company i.e. ProSet the company also had the brands 'ProSet series' and 'Platinum series') that started the 'over-saturation'...which then had everyone else doing the same?
Oh hell no. Topps, UD, ProSet, later others...all had a hand in flooding the market. Heck, go look up Score Board or Classic.

4. People talk about the 90's as the 'dark ages', if you will. But is it really ALL of that decade? If there was a start date to the 'dark ages', then wasn't there a period in the late 90's that things began getting better (in terms of less saturation and popularity of the hobby)? Or do late 90's cards unfortunately get clumped in with the early-mid cards that have become unattractive?
Early 90s was characterized by overproduction. Late 90s was marked by three things:
- dawn of the short print run: in 1996-7, the Hart Hopeful Golds, Lord Stanley's Heroes Finals and Run For the Cup were some of the shortest print runs ever seen. At the end of that year, the Triple Diamond Golds from Black Diamond (50 copies of each) were the shortest. And then in 97-8 they raised that bar.
- dawn of the game used memorabilia card: 96-7 Game Jerseys. That's when they started.
- dawn of the ludicrously high-priced insert: Those #/100 I mentioned earlier? Gretzky was $1000+ easily at that time. Lemieux in the $6-800 range. For inserts that were just serial numbered cardboard, that's kinda nuts.

Late 90s also saw the most competition we'd seen on the landscape with Pinnacle/Donruss, Topps, Pacific, UD and ITG all in the mix. Late 90s inserts were compared by another user (Fritz) to cougars: they ain't what they used to be, but you can appreciate what they once were.

5. If it wasn't in the late 90's, what was the year that resurrected collecting and 'value'? Did one particular company/brand do it? Was it one particular series that came out? How much of a role did 'memorabilia' cards play in pulling the hobby up? And would 'memorabilia' and 'numbered inserts' lead to the death of collecting 'base' cards?
This question is difficult to answer. What do you mean by "value"?

6. Out of curiosity, would the cards that came out before the 90's, be more attractive in terms of value and even popularity, as a general consensus? It's a shame regarding the values of a Brodeur and Jagr rookie, for example.
Yeah. Think of what a Selanne Cup-level rookie might be worth.

 

[deepbluejacket]

I welcomed the massive influx in 1990-91. It was great to have so many choices and because it was so overproduced, it was cheap.

 

[Bossy22]

My take:

1. What exact year would people generally agree with on when this 'over-saturation' started?
90-91 remains the gold standard for overproduction in the minds of many collectors. That wax is STILL available if you look for it. It is a testament to the greatness of the players who were rookies that year that their RCs are worth anything at all.

2. Would the card-collecting hobby have slowed down if the over-saturation didn't occur, in your opinion? Did card quality play a role?
Yes and no. it's cyclical. The peaks and troughs are getting wilder as of late.

3. Was it basically one company (or one of the brands within that company i.e. ProSet the company also had the brands 'ProSet series' and 'Platinum series') that started the 'over-saturation'...which then had everyone else doing the same?
Oh hell no. Topps, UD, ProSet, later others...all had a hand in flooding the market. Heck, go look up Score Board or Classic.

4. People talk about the 90's as the 'dark ages', if you will. But is it really ALL of that decade? If there was a start date to the 'dark ages', then wasn't there a period in the late 90's that things began getting better (in terms of less saturation and popularity of the hobby)? Or do late 90's cards unfortunately get clumped in with the early-mid cards that have become unattractive?
Early 90s was characterized by overproduction. Late 90s was marked by three things:
- dawn of the short print run: in 1996-7, the Hart Hopeful Golds, Lord Stanley's Heroes Finals and Run For the Cup were some of the shortest print runs ever seen. At the end of that year, the Triple Diamond Golds from Black Diamond (50 copies of each) were the shortest. And then in 97-8 they raised that bar.
- dawn of the game used memorabilia card: 96-7 Game Jerseys. That's when they started.
- dawn of the ludicrously high-priced insert: Those #/100 I mentioned earlier? Gretzky was $1000+ easily at that time. Lemieux in the $6-800 range. For inserts that were just serial numbered cardboard, that's kinda nuts.

Late 90s also saw the most competition we'd seen on the landscape with Pinnacle/Donruss, Topps, Pacific, UD and ITG all in the mix. Late 90s inserts were compared by another user (Fritz) to cougars: they ain't what they used to be, but you can appreciate what they once were.

5. If it wasn't in the late 90's, what was the year that resurrected collecting and 'value'? Did one particular company/brand do it? Was it one particular series that came out? How much of a role did 'memorabilia' cards play in pulling the hobby up? And would 'memorabilia' and 'numbered inserts' lead to the death of collecting 'base' cards?
This question is difficult to answer. What do you mean by "value"?

6. Out of curiosity, would the cards that came out before the 90's, be more attractive in terms of value and even popularity, as a general consensus? It's a shame regarding the values of a Brodeur and Jagr rookie, for example.
Yeah. Think of what a Selanne Cup-level rookie might be worth.

Its sad that we probably all have tonnes of HOF rookies sitting in common boxes!

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

I am not going to answer all the questions but I started collecting in the late 70’s and still collect. The early 90’s may have flooded the market but it brought in more new collectors then any period in history. Kids, adults, moms, dads, grandparents, aunts, uncles everyone collected. Shops, card shows and trading groups popped up all over the place, it was a very exciting time to collect. A lot of people quit in the mid to late 90’s but a lot stayed. I think the over saturation of game used and autographs in 2000 hurt the hobby the most. Pack prices climbed to ridiculously high prices, boxes in the hundreds of dollars with returns of cards that sell for $5-$10. That’s when I stopped buying modern. I still buy vintage OPC and I love buying up all the early 90’s rookies and inserts for pennies on the dollar of what they sold for back when they first came out. To me card collecting is still about the love of hockey and collecting my favourite team and players. I’m not caught up in dollar values or breaking to get the big hit so over saturation is good for me.

 

[webottew]

I consider 1990 to be both the rise and fall of the Hobby.

It was the era of more products, better technology, and most importantly the introduction of marketing new products. Before 1990, was there any hype for the upcoming OPC/Topps set? Any anticipation for their release? This new excitement for cards was great for the Hobby.

But 1990 also saw a new emphasis on the gambling/investment mentality of the Hobby. Cards were no longer sold as an add-on to gum. The cards were now the product. Is it a coincidence that the first issue of Beckett Hockey made its debut in Sept/Oct 1990? Gone was the innocence of only opening packs for fun. "Got em, Got em, Need em" was soon replaced with "What does it book for?" Prior to price guides, collectors didn't experience bipolar relationships with their cards.

I don't consider the 90s to be any Darker today than the 70s or 80s in terms of "Must have cards" to have in your collection. The 90s receive the negative attention because of the "burst bubble" experienced by many collectors who lived it first hand.

Since 1990 we have seen the cyclical ups and downs in prices of cards. Chasing the hottest rookie is not new. It goes back to the 90s. Every year the cycle repeats. New rookie prices skyrocket, only to be found within 2-3 years for pennies on the dollar. Sure there are a few exceptions, but history repeats itself EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Box hits were a significant detriment to base set collecting. Before guaranteed box hits, how many collectors bought boxes to bust? There was no advantage back then to buy a sealed box versus numerous packs over time. But often buying a couple of boxes will give you a full base set in one shot, so the allure of a complete set soon lost its appeal.

Yes, there was (and still is!) a LOT of overproduction, but in the early 90s did collectors really see this surplus? When you went to your local shop, flea market or show, did you see many Stanley Cup Holograms or 96-97 Game Jerseys? No, not likely. But this was in a time before the major influence on the hobby ... the internet.

The internet gave us a larger world view. You could begin to see the excessive amounts of the same cards listed in rec.collecting.sport.hockey. Conversely, the interweb was also a major influence for the rise of the Hobby. Collectors could acquire cards from outside their little corner of the hobby. Most importantly, the internet gave rise to online communities where collectors can convene to share the Hobby with each other.

As for when the Hobby saw a resurgence after the 90s, I would argue it was 2000 just before the first Monopoly (2004). We had great manufacturers COMPETING against each other to make the better product.

So to answer your questions, there are a LOT of external factors outside the manufacturers, their products and the quantity of cards printed that affects the health of the Hobby. Social aspects of the internet, Price Guides, and quality of the talent in the NHL had just as much of an influence on the Hobby. Today the hobby still has good and bad parts. We just have to recognize them, and decide how we want to enjoy the Hobby.

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

Great point on price guides. When Beckett started doing monthly price magazines for each sport it changed the way collectors looked st the hobby. IMO that was when the hobby lost its innocence. I loved looking through the magazine at the articles on players and cards. I also enjoyed seeing the card values as did all collectors. One for one card for card even trading stopped and now card values were placed on everything. This changed the trading and buying forever. I still love looking through the old Beckett guides.

 

[Triple B]

I've been buying cards since 1981 as a kid but actually collecting since 1987. I'll say this, there was NO better time to collect than the early 90s.

I won't speak for anywhere else, but from 1990 to 1993, convenience stores that were neighbourhood staples here in Toronto were converting to card stores. I know of two laundromats that opened kiosks to sell cards. There were 2-3 card shows on any given weekend that you could attend and make a whole weekend of it and every card spot was EASILY filled with people.

The card companies got greedy and printed more and more as each year went by and as collectors left, it wasn't sustainable.

Make no mistake though, the early 90s won't ever be touched when it comes to being the hobby's golden era.

 

[weasel-king]

A curious oddity was the rise of the retail-only or Canada-only parallels, too. Doesn't really fit into any of the questions, but I assume it was Pacific, since that's immediately who I thought of. Different outlets offered different parallels of the same base cards.

 

[quincy]

A curious oddity was the rise of the retail-only or Canada-only parallels, too. Doesn't really fit into any of the questions, but I assume it was Pacific, since that's immediately who I thought of. Different outlets offered different parallels of the same base cards.

I think it was 2001 BAP that featured channel-specific inserts as well: US, Canada and Retail wax all had different autograph content.

 

[Moose#11]

as a kid who grew up in the '70s i can say that the '90s were the best of times,the worst of times for Hockey cards.it was such a fun time to re-ignite the hobby fire with the introduction of fresh blood into a Topps/OPC only landscape of the prior 40 years.yes i collected pro Set,yes i collected Upper Deck,and Parkhurst and Platinum and Pinnacle and Pacific and ITG and you know what,it was a whole lotta fun!what happened to kind of ruin the party was the overprinting/holding back of product that later knocked the collective knees out from under each and every "prospective" collector.that kind of thing never bothered me though,i never collected for future investment,just what i liked at the time.truthfully i think the biggest blow to the hobby wasn't the cornucopia of products in the 1990's but the licensing wars that started in '05-'06 with the exclusives.the hobby would be in a much better place had that not happened.

 

[gomaz]

I consider 1990 to be both the rise and fall of the Hobby.

It was the era of more products, better technology, and most importantly the introduction of marketing new products. Before 1990, was there any hype for the upcoming OPC/Topps set? Any anticipation for their release? This new excitement for cards was great for the Hobby.

But 1990 also saw a new emphasis on the gambling/investment mentality of the Hobby. Cards were no longer sold as an add-on to gum. The cards were now the product. Is it a coincidence that the first issue of Beckett Hockey made its debut in Sept/Oct 1990? Gone was the innocence of only opening packs for fun. "Got em, Got em, Need em" was soon replaced with "What does it book for?" Prior to price guides, collectors didn't experience bipolar relationships with their cards.

I don't consider the 90s to be any Darker today than the 70s or 80s in terms of "Must have cards" to have in your collection. The 90s receive the negative attention because of the "burst bubble" experienced by many collectors who lived it first hand.

Since 1990 we have seen the cyclical ups and downs in prices of cards. Chasing the hottest rookie is not new. It goes back to the 90s. Every year the cycle repeats. New rookie prices skyrocket, only to be found within 2-3 years for pennies on the dollar. Sure there are a few exceptions, but history repeats itself EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Box hits were a significant detriment to base set collecting. Before guaranteed box hits, how many collectors bought boxes to bust? There was no advantage back then to buy a sealed box versus numerous packs over time. But often buying a couple of boxes will give you a full base set in one shot, so the allure of a complete set soon lost its appeal.

Yes, there was (and still is!) a LOT of overproduction, but in the early 90s did collectors really see this surplus? When you went to your local shop, flea market or show, did you see many Stanley Cup Holograms or 96-97 Game Jerseys? No, not likely. But this was in a time before the major influence on the hobby ... the internet.

The internet gave us a larger world view. You could begin to see the excessive amounts of the same cards listed in rec.collecting.sport.hockey. Conversely, the interweb was also a major influence for the rise of the Hobby. Collectors could acquire cards from outside their little corner of the hobby. Most importantly, the internet gave rise to online communities where collectors can convene to share the Hobby with each other.

As for when the Hobby saw a resurgence after the 90s, I would argue it was 2000 just before the first Monopoly (2004). We had great manufacturers COMPETING against each other to make the better product.

So to answer your questions, there are a LOT of external factors outside the manufacturers, their products and the quantity of cards printed that affects the health of the Hobby. Social aspects of the internet, Price Guides, and quality of the talent in the NHL had just as much of an influence on the Hobby. Today the hobby still has good and bad parts. We just have to recognize them, and decide how we want to enjoy the Hobby.

Nailed it. Very comprehensive and well told.

 

[foley2k]

I welcomed the massive influx in 1990-91. It was great to have so many choices and because it was so overproduced, it was cheap.

Yup, kids could afford it. It is when I started collecting. Still wish I could get 15 cards per pack for $0.99.
In the small town I lived in at the time, you could buy cards in any of the corner stores there, and even in the department store. The guy who ran the bowling alley, opened up a small space there for a card shop. People would go there to buy, sell and trade.
A guy from Thunder Bay would make the 3 hour trip to our town a few times a year to set up a table at the mall, and there would be people there all day. Made my first trade there. Traded a 1992-93 Parkhurst Shanahan Cherry picks insert for a 1985-86 OPC Doug Gilmour card, and I still have that card to this day.
I used to always have a pocket full of cards in my jacket. Buy them, open them up and see what I got. If I was lucky, would get a hologram from Upper Deck, and would be pretty stoked about it.

Back then it was about collecting. Kids were having fun with it.
Now cards are so expensive only adults can afford to buy them.
*** hats faking patches. Companies putting out the same thing year after year, filled with garbage and redemption cards, and $500 packs with an upside down Carey Price auto on a card with some dude who plays for the Flyers.

The early 90s and 2000s were the best time collecting.
Monopoly, exclusive signings, and high end is what killed it. For me at least.