Women Hockey ITG Going for Gold. PLease take the time to read.

Micheal Doyle

Micheal Doyle

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Hey guys, need a little bit of your time to vent. I took the time last night to go see the Thunder play the Aeros in the Womens Hockey Leauge. It was as exciting as any game I've been to. After the game I went and got some of my cards signed from the ITG Going for Gold set. They were more then happy to sign the cards, and I was left with a little bit of insight into their game.

The women got nothing from the release of this set. Sorry they got 500 of their own cards that they could give to their friends, family and fans.I found this to be a little upsetting to say the least. Some of the ladies had do do the same things the men do and sign sheets of labels for the cards in the set.

So as I sat with 2 of the ladies I watched how they hauled their own equipment and were rather pleased with their independance. Playing the game for the love of it, no pay cheque just the simple love of the game. Now let me remind you these are women who bring home gold while the men don't even make it to the final round.

I'm not a one sided person by any means. I just do not like things when they are not fair and to me, this is one of them. Now I'm simply asking people to buy one set for a female family member that has an interest in hockey. People who have done so please let me know and I will do my best to get them a personally autographed card from one of the ladies in the set.

Thanks for letting me vent.....................

Steve
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You're comparing apples and oranges. NHL players autos make money for itg. Having the womens set was a gamble that itg might even lose money. Itg doing this was great for womens hockey, they were not taking advantage of the situation but rather trying to promote it. I bought a set for my wife at Christmas. Just making sure people don't get the idea that itg was taking advatage of, they were rather taking a risk for!
 
A comment here from someone else on another board.

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Steve,

I'm not sure of the politics behind the signings, but the likeliest reason why the women "didn't get anything" is twofold:

1- The women have no players association/union to handle things on their behalf like the men do.
As part of the NHLPA agreement, the players get royalties on everything they are depicted on that falls under the group licensing agreement. i.e. any player who is in a card set, in a video game or anything like that gets a piece of the pie.

Because Hockey Canada is the licensing body and essentially hold the image rights for the women, they get the take on the royalties. Women who do extra endorsements like Cassie Campbell and her Chunky Soup ads or General Mills stuff got her stuff done in separate deals.

It also would not surprise me if 90% of the women do not have agents.

In the same respect, assumedly the majority of the CHL players don't get any royalties for the Heroes and Prospects cards. The only ones that would would be any who get independent contracts with ITG.

2 - The Hockey Canada participation is deemed as amateur, and therefore they cannot be paid for that beyond general expenses. Same went for the NHL players for the Olympics or other tournaments. This is very prominent in the NCAA, where you don't see player names in the EA video games.

In the same respect as the non-unioned communities (CHL etc.), any player is free to make agreements with outside bodies. That's where you get endorsements from Campbell, Wickenheiser and others. This is also what allows ITG to put players like Eric Lindros in International Ice.

I honestly don't know if there's a Women's union or if they are part of the PHPA, but you can bet that if ITG did a full-out NWHL set or other companies wanted to do NWHL player products, you can bet there would be a union instantly
 
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I think Brian Price's response from another board needs to be seen here too...

Thanks for the post Steve.

It just makes it clear to me that when you try to do something nice, there is always someone out there trying to shaft you.

I only reply on these Boards when my emotions get the best of as I realize it is a no win situation but Steve you got to me.

Let me tell you that making a card of Becky Kellar or Cherie Piper (no disrespect meant to these two talented athletes) cost us the same as making cards of Steve Yzerman or Mario Lemieux but let's face it, what two cards in this example sell more.

Out of respect for the accomplishments of the Women's National Team, we offered to Hockey Canada to make a product featuring the Women's Team knowing that the market is limited. We felt that it was time to give these hockey players the exposure they deserve.

Our compensation to the players was agreed to by Hockey Canada but to our knowledge, Hockey Canada did not force anyone to participate against their will. The royalties generated by the sales of this product go to Hockey Canada to be disbursed as they see fit.

Although I am not here to seek kudos for being the only company ever to take this financial risk, I am here to defend the position that the players were not hard done by and that the original posters offer to get cards signed is going to hurt Hockey Canada more than it is going to help them.

No one was taken advantage of, In The Game knew that this was a financial risk when we offered to make the set, the players gave Hockey Canada a small amount of their time to sign for us. To suggest that either Hockey Canada or In The Game took advantage is ludicrous.

With the licensing restrictions we are under, we are trying to be as creative and we can be to stay in business at the same time we are trying to be true to the sport we love and the industry we respect.

Posting such as this are unfair and disturbing. I will try not to let the opinion of one person dampen the In The Game spirit. Thanks to those collectors across Canada how have supported the Going For Gold project to date.

Dr. Brian H. Price
President
In The Game, Inc.

As you can see, your assumption is simply not the case.
 
They got nothing to sign?

Regardless of the risk taken by ITG, that's their risk, why not pay the women to sign?

I'm with Micheal, that's pretty weak imo.

The set has just as much a chance to sell, to say there isn't a market for womens cards is crazy.

I'm sure there are many of the womens cards who sell way better than guys in the H&P set.

It's nice that they took the initiative to make the set, and speaking from a perspective of living in a household with 2 women who are avid collectors and highly anticipated this product (and have bought an ample supply of it) it was appreciated.

But I'm sure they wouldn't be pleased to hear that the women who took their time to sign for the set didn't get anything in return.

Financial risk or not, that's kind of a luggage excuse, every set is a financial risk. Was H&P a financial risk? Yes, it was, who knew if there would be a mass market for junior cards, and non logo'd former nhl stars. Less of a risk yes, still a risk? you bet.

It's a copout excuse, the women should have been paid, not at the same price as former NHL stars, because I agree with Price, their autos are valued higher, but to give em the complete shaft is weak.
 
Wait a minute. ITG made a deal with Hockey Canada, and Hockey Canada supplied the autos. If this was my transaction, and I was ITG, I fulfilled my obligations when I gave what was agreed to by Hockey Canada.

I don't think anyone was taken advantage of, but if the ladies are upset by not getting anything, then maybe it's Hockey Canada they need to be upset with, not ITG. Perhaps they don't realize that the money coming in through the sales is being funnelled back through Hockey Canada to help pay administration costs, costs for the National Team tourneys, travel and accomodation. Sounds to me like the whole 'problem' is between the team and Hockey Canada, not ITG.

Cory
 
I agree,
whole bunch of lack of communication,

If they paid hockey canada for autographs, then yes, that is a team canada/players issue.

I was under the impression that the autos were acquired independently from the licensing, mostly because I watched a handful of the players sign them at the expo last year and give them directly to ITG, and not "through" hockey canada...
 
Micheal Doyle said:
You should also add my response to him. Brian and I have spoken via email about this. Thank you for taking the time to read the post.
Click to expand...

I figure I would leave that up to you since you're telling the story. Cory is dead on...the autos and dispersement of funds was handled by Hockey Canada. ITG has done something pretty great for Women's Hockey in getting names and information about the players out there, not to mention some pretty cool collectibles.

If Hockey Canada has not paid the women for the rights to their likenesses and signatures, then that's Hockey Canada's problem. From what I hear, the ladies were pretty enthusiastic about the opportunity to promote their sport.
 
To me this is no different than the USA Baseball sets going since 2002. If you played on the USA National teams, you are required as part of the deal to sign about 2,000 labels for UD to put in the national team sets. These sets are in turn produced as a fundraiser for USA Baseball, much like the Going for Gold sets. If I'm not mistaken, some of the proceeds will go to Rose's House?

Sometimes it can be amazing how some people, can no matter what the situation, try to look for the worst in a situation. I'm not saying the original poster has either, but it's easy to see how some people can interpret things.
 
Hey guys thank you for taking the time to read this. I did post this with much less knowledge of what is behind the scenes then I know now. Mr.Price and I have talked numerous times via email and I have apoligised.

I did want to draw attention to the set, I guess my method brought out the worst in people. It did draw alot of emotion and I have recieved emails about this set and where to get it.

I still support this set. I'm trying to run some numbers so that I can get more of it out there. Brian is right it is a financial risk. Cards are popping up more on Ebay and they are selling at a moderate pace. I'm pondering the aspect of purchasing a case and busting it. Once again I need to run the numbers.

In all my earlier rant I still suppoted the set,now I support those involved also. I asked people to go out and buy one and still would like people to post here who did. I want to thank the people here for being mature with their comments. Other boards were not as responsible and the threads had to be closed. I have learned a great deal about this in a very short time. From my mistake of letting my emotions get the best of me I did get the chance to meet the man helping pioneer this set and for that I'm grateful.

Steve
 
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isn't bartering still legal ? 500 cards for the rights to make them. It is/was a gamble and it looks like a great looking set.

How much do NHL players get from each company or set ? Isn't this done through the NHLPA for the players ?

And it's a national team so it's up to the country who hosts and sponsors the team. Just like getting paid by the country for competing in the Olympics or any other international pro competition.
 
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I applaud ITG for taking a chance on Women's Hockey. We have had several people ask about cards portraying the women and finally ITG has provided it. They have done everything in their power to bring more exposure to the sport. I, for one, think they have done a great thing.
Congratulations Brian, we salute you and from all of us here at Gamebreakers, we wish you luck in continuing to provide hobbyists with beautiful cards. We will always support your company and hope you can stay with us until a new licensing agreement can be reached.

Frank
 
I think ITG and Dr. Price did a great thing by making a women's product and they did take a gamble that they might lost some money. Here's the thing. Why not share some of the profits (if there are any) with the players, if the product is a success? Even if it's a token 10-20% slice of the pie..... My $.02. Mike
 
I don't understand why ITG is getting the short end of the stick from some of you guys...they made a business deal with Hockey Canada, and ITG held their part. This set will do WONDERS for the women's hockey program. Some of these ladies do VERY well for themselves, so the help is there is they really need it that badly. No offense, but Cassie Campbell, whom I still have a huge crush on, makes $10,000 US per appearance. Hockey Canada is not a charity, but they do need the help.

If you still feel that the women are being shortchanged, I would suggest you write a letter to Hockey Canada and let them know how unfair you think it is that the funds are not being dispersed directly to the women but instead are being used to run their hockey program. How dare they? As for ITG, they negotiated the license to produce these cards, plus paid to actually produce and assemble the cards and sets, and now have to hope they sell to YES, make money on it.

Here's a snapshot of Hockey Canada's paid registration by province:

B.C 43,993
Alberta 59,110
Saskatchewan 28,013
Manitoba 23,472
Hockey Northern Ontario 5,343
Ontario Hockey Federation 221,535
Ottawa District 28,658
Quebec 88,824
New Brunswick 15,955
Nova Scotia 17,487
Prince Edward Island 6,024
Hockey Nfld/Labrador 8,322
Hockey North 4,429
WHL 490
Total 551,655
 
Triple B said:
I don't understand why ITG is getting the short end of the stick from some of you guys...they made a business deal with Hockey Canada, and ITG held their part. This set will do WONDERS for the women's hockey program. Some of these ladies do VERY well for themselves, so the help is there is they really need it that badly. No offense, but Cassie Campbell, whom I still have a huge crush on, makes $10,000 US per appearance. Hockey Canada is not a charity, but they do need the help.

If you still feel that the women are being shortchanged, I would suggest you write a letter to Hockey Canada and let them know how unfair you think it is that the funds are not being dispersed directly to the women but instead are being used to run their hockey program. How dare they? As for ITG, they negotiated the license to produce these cards, plus paid to actually produce and assemble the cards and sets, and now have to hope they sell to YES, make money on it.

Here's a snapshot of Hockey Canada's paid registration by province:

B.C 43,993
Alberta 59,110
Saskatchewan 28,013
Manitoba 23,472
Hockey Northern Ontario 5,343
Ontario Hockey Federation 221,535
Ottawa District 28,658
Quebec 88,824
New Brunswick 15,955
Nova Scotia 17,487
Prince Edward Island 6,024
Hockey Nfld/Labrador 8,322
Hockey North 4,429
WHL 490
Total 551,655
Click to expand...

Well said! I am another getting tired of the negative vibes directed at a company for doing something awesome!
 

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