Who is the best all-around player in the league?

Datsyuk just for the hell of it....I won't say crosby to avoid being a homer....and with the criteria including the penalty kill crosby need not apply..And I am glad since unless your playing a team that has a knack for giving up shorties why not save his energy for the PP and 5 on 5.

Which teammate called Crosby a crybaby anyway? Recchi?

OFF TOPIC below
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Would not mind seeing a topic for the best defensive forward in the game since my bias would be moot and J.Staal would have to be at or near the top. hope he can come back for the jan 1st game......Sorry for going off topic
 
The reason I said that is its true.. Ovechkin does not nomally have to play defensively, because he is so good offensively. I think you sometimes look at a post and not even try to think what was posted before your respond in a negative way. It is impossible to really determine who the "overall best player" without knowing what is being graded. All that we all can offer is an opinion. There is no fact based information to go on...Last year you wanted Richards traded, he was no good, now you are touting him to be the best overall player?

QUOTE=GrimUSMC;1622846]Then why would you say something to the effect of "AO is busy making scoring chances not playing D". That means you either missed it, or have no idea what it means. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, lol.[/QUOTE]
 
I dont know why jarome Iginlas name has been tossed around like all the others I mean sure he may have lost his touch a little bit now but he is still damn good on both sides of the rink
 
Iginla would have been my vote 4 years ago. But today, he's just another very good one, to me. A few other points:
- yes, Recchi was the one who called Crosby a crybaby.
- Mike Richards' leadership was called into questions for 2 reasons. 1) There was a dispute in the locker room between him and Pronger and their differing of opinions on professional conduct on and off the ice. 2) He was being a jerk to the media for trying to make more of his off-ice activity with Lupul than there was. Those were the reasons people had an issue with him.
To say that the only "A" players in the league are Ovy, Sid, and Datsyuk sounds like you watch all the Pens games, a few Caps games, and the Monday night Versus game, because there are a TON of guys who are "A" players. Right now, Stamkos and St. Louis are playing as well as either of the holy duo. Sedin just came off of an Art Ross/Hart Season. Nick Lidstrom is back to his old (or young?) form.
For anyone who wants to argue that Ovechkin is the best all-around player purely because of his offense, that's fine. I'll counter that Blair Betts is his defensive counterpart, and is just as important (and he doesn't have tunnel vision). That's a joke, of course, but my point is that it takes more than just offensive flair and the odd big hit here and there to be the best all-around.
Is Richards in the discussion? I think that, at the very least, he is one of the 10 best in the league becuse he excels at most aspects of the game (face-offs being a major flaw, as he is a center). But that's just me.
 
Has anyone considered leadership as part of the discussion? Datsyuk is a truly great player but by far he lacks leadership skills and if you're talking all around player, you have to knock him for that the same way you knock Crosby for not killing penalties.
 
solt0131 said:
Has anyone considered leadership as part of the discussion? Datsyuk is a truly great player but by far he lacks leadership skills and if you're talking all around player, you have to knock him for that the same way you knock Crosby for not killing penalties.
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How do you define leadership????

I know that most think of it as fire and brimstone, rallying the troops, being the lead gut to the media etc.

Or do you think of it as being the absolute best you can be, playing both ends of the rink - not in the big games, or in the SC Finals - but every night, all 82 games and more in the playoffs. Do you always look for ways to make the plays totally unselfishly, with no regard for your own stats?? Do you play every facet of the game (PP,PK,Important face-offs etc.) and take the ice in every game-on-the-line situation??? Do you make every single player around you better???


I think Detroit may be a little different in the way our Captains' lead. Our success started when Steve Yzerman started playing as good defensively as he was offensively. And for some of you too young to know - his offense was third only to Gretzky & Lemieux. Well Yzerman begat Lidstrom - and he led in the same quiet manner that he saw from Yzerman. A big part of that is bringing in a lot of veterans to mesh with the younger player and matching them up. They do not need as much direction - as much 'talking the talk', they learn by watching success. You also do not out-shine or overstep your Capotain - that comes with the respect the Wings have for their organization and the way they do things.

Datsyuk leads but not in the vocal sense. The only reason he will not be Captain when Lidstrom retires is that Zetterberg is much younger and is more photo-genic (LOL - just a barb at Pavel - he is quite homely!). He plays the same game as Datsyuk - but without the takeaways - he is a half-step behind Datsyuk on the defensive side - but still better two-way player than 90% of the league.

How can you possibly rank leadership on a level with hockey skill such as PK??
 
solt0131 said:
Has anyone considered leadership as part of the discussion? Datsyuk is a truly great player but by far he lacks leadership skills and if you're talking all around player, you have to knock him for that the same way you knock Crosby for not killing penalties.
Click to expand...

I do consider it. Some lead by speaking in the locker room. Some lead by showing 100% effort on every shift. Datsyuk does the latter. As for his locker room presence, I don't know, so I can't say.
 
juliangen said:
I dont know why jarome Iginlas name has been tossed around like all the others I mean sure he may have lost his touch a little bit now but he is still damn good on both sides of the rink
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He would be my vote if leadership was a major part of the equation. Like if the question was 'best overall captain'. There are so few "good" leaders out there, that I dont think there is much of a vote there anyway.


Best overall player looks at the main aspects players get paid for offense, defense, physicality, and 'clealiness of play' (this refers to the reliability of the player to make the right play without resorting to illegal or penalty inducing methods, one of the most underrated skills out there).

Also, OFFENSE is half of the game, the other half you spend playing DEFENSE. So in order to be 'best overall' you have to show exemplary skills in BOTH areas first and foremost. You can bring the smaller categories into discussion later. Ovy/Crosby have no place in this thread for that reason.

Maybe the best way to score players here is to grade them xx/100 for off/def, xx/50 for physicality and cleanliness, and maybe even xx/25 for leadership. Then figure that percentages.
 
Dustin Byfuglien is the best round player in the league... 6'-5", 265 lbs... you'd be hard pressed to find a more round player.

;)

Cory
 
Metrags said:
Also, OFFENSE is half of the game, the other half you spend playing DEFENSE. So in order to be 'best overall' you have to show exemplary skills in BOTH areas first and foremost. You can bring the smaller categories into discussion later. Ovy/Crosby have no place in this thread for that reason.

Maybe the best way to score players here is to grade them xx/100 for off/def, xx/50 for physicality and cleanliness, and maybe even xx/25 for leadership. Then figure that percentages.
Click to expand...

There is a huge flaw in this logic - guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, etc don't spend half of their icetime in their own end so, much like the old saying goes, the best defense is a good offense.

Clearly there have to be multipliers involved which is why penalty killing cannot equate the same way that scoring does - otherwise Jay McClement will have an equal foothold as an elite scorer. You can tell me all day long that Crosby or Ovechkin don't play as well in their own end and don't kill penalties but at the end of the day they are responsible enough to be plus players and they still score 40 more points than many of the players being mentioned in this thread.

Datsyuk is great and should be in this discussion certainly - Stamkos should probably get more love than he is getting in my opinion but so should guys like Chara and Doughty.
 
Can I assume that half of the membership don't watch any Pens hockey!!! Crosby do kill penalties. He even fights and seems to win them all:)

Remember guys and gals it is just opinions which are plentiful on this site.
 
I didnt bring up PK, but maybe PK isnt the best way to showcase "defense".

So many players play a dependable style of D without making the PK unit. Then there are others (Jagr?) who do not even pretend to play D.


Why not look at the final rankings for hart candidates, selke candidates, Pearson candidates, +/-, point per penalty minute..... etc etc
 
I was going to chime in with Crosby kills penalties too but some of the members in this thread obviously don't watch Pens games...So why bother :|

By the way ladies and gents, in late 2008, of the 28 GM's in the league (you know the men that run the teams) 15 of them picked Crosby for who they would take to build a team around. Richards and Dats were not even mentioned. If you guys put them as the best "all around" then why hasn't even ONE GM acknowledged either of them? Heck Zetterburg even got votes ahead of Dats.

Surely the "best overall" player in the league would get a least ONE vote :|. On that note I'll side with the experts, not you guys :rolleyes:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=252046

newfiecomicguy1 said:
Can I assume that half of the membership don't watch any Pens hockey!!! Crosby do kill penalties. He even fights and seems to win them all:)

Remember guys and gals it is just opinions which are plentiful on this site.
Click to expand...
 
Tom R said:
The reason I said that is its true.. Ovechkin does not nomally have to play defensively, because he is so good offensively. I think you sometimes look at a post and not even try to think what was posted before your respond in a negative way. It is impossible to really determine who the "overall best player" without knowing what is being graded. All that we all can offer is an opinion. There is no fact based information to go on...Last year you wanted Richards traded, he was no good, now you are touting him to be the best overall player?

QUOTE=GrimUSMC;1622846]Then why would you say something to the effect of "AO is busy making scoring chances not playing D". That means you either missed it, or have no idea what it means. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, lol.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]


Your logic is so far past flawed. I find it ironic that I would consider Crosby up there, and yet were arguing over AO. I Will stop trying to point out what so many others have already stated and let the facts do the talking.

When defensive hockey matters most, Ovechkin has consistently fallen short while others have excelled.

When discussing overall greatness, AO falls short for the time being. The other names mentioned have won come May.
 
Magootz said:
I was going to chime in with Crosby kills penalties too but some of the members in this thread obviously don't watch Pens games...So why bother :|

By the way ladies and gents, in late 2008, of the 28 GM's in the league (you know the men that run the teams) 15 of them picked Crosby for who they would take to build a team around. Richards and Dats were not even mentioned. If you guys put them as the best "all around" then why hasn't even ONE GM acknowledged either of them? Heck Zetterburg even got votes ahead of Dats.

Surely the "best overall" player in the league would get a least ONE vote :|. On that note I'll side with the experts, not you guys :rolleyes:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=252046
Click to expand...

They also picked Montreal to play for the Stanley Cup that year........................We see how that worked out, lol.
 
Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title to:

"Why your idea of who is the best over-all player in the NHL is wrong!"

Joking of course....

We all know the best player is Kovalchuk - look at his pay cheque.
 
Stadium Sports said:
Perhaps one of the mods could change the thread title to:

"Why your idea of who is the best over-all player in the NHL is wrong!"

Joking of course....

We all know the best player is Kovalchuk - look at his pay cheque.
Click to expand...

Game, Set, Match!
 
Magootz said:
I was going to chime in with Crosby kills penalties too but some of the members in this thread obviously don't watch Pens games...So why bother :|

By the way ladies and gents, in late 2008, of the 28 GM's in the league (you know the men that run the teams) 15 of them picked Crosby for who they would take to build a team around. Richards and Dats were not even mentioned. If you guys put them as the best "all around" then why hasn't even ONE GM acknowledged either of them? Heck Zetterburg even got votes ahead of Dats.

Surely the "best overall" player in the league would get a least ONE vote :|. On that note I'll side with the experts, not you guys :rolleyes:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=252046
Click to expand...


Simple answer:

The question to the GM's was not who was the best overall player player in the league based on all facets. It was whom would you build your team around. The two are not same - Crosby is the most dynamic player, with Ovie a very close second. They are not however - either one - the most well rounded player at this point in their careers.

Another example - the question was asked of these same GM's around 2003/2005, and I seem to remember that the most popular answer then was Lidstrom to start a team with. Pick the player that would anchor your defense night in and night out, miss no games , and score to boot. Was he the best player in the league??? No he was not. BUT he was one of the players that you could build a team around.


Title of this thread was :

Who is the best all-around player in the league?
 

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