How much do players ACTUALLY get paid for their autographs?

[achittka]

I've seen a few threads about how players have lack luster or half-hearted signatures, but having just read a good-spirited thread about how our (collectors) signatures degrade over time, and how we are not paid for our signatures, I got to wondering how much athletes are actually paid to sign stacks of cards and sticker sheets.

I think I've read somewhere that part of a rookie's entry level deal includes signing for the licensed card companies. If this were true, I'd suggest they are getting paid to play hockey and that card signing is a more of a contractual nuisance.

Then when entry level contracts expire, it's up to the card companies to get the players to agree to signing deals, and some simply do not. Is this right?

Do we have any idea what the card companies actually pay guys to sign cards and stickers? Do they get a per signature price or annual honorarium to sign whatever they are sent?

Is there a penalty for players who do not sign their cards (particularly for the young guys, if signing is part of their entry level contract)?

Frankly if I had no interest in cards but had to sign them to play in the NHL, I would probably end up with a Niet-o Auto as well.

What can the HI community tell me about player remuneration for signing cards?

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[eishelges]

Good point andrew and very interesting!

Should be depending on players level...Gretzky / lemieux vs ovi/ Crosby vs 4th line players...

But no idea how much they get for an on card auto...maybe comparable to privat signings?

What I also loved to see is something about these signings...behind the scenes..how do the players get the cards, how much time do they have to sign, how are these cards packed to save mint condition etc...how do card companies make sure that there is no ghost writer/signer on the other end? Are there any videos available like making of cards from panini last year?

Greetings

 

[SNobles]

I also have no idea, but I am sure somewhere along the way this will become a "they owe it to the fans" type argument. I too wish all players would have as nice an auto a Tavares, Stamkos, Gretzky and most players prior to the lockout but it just isn't the way. I myself have horrible handwriting and I don't even know if they really teach it in school anymore. Hard to blame these guys but Nieto is on a whole other level. lol

I am just happy we get something from these players who put on a great show for us on the ice.

 

[frankiefives]

I've heard that Crosby makes over $100 per auto...

 

[quincy]

They don't owe anything to the fans. They owe a nice autograph to the COMPANY PAYING THEM TO SIGN THE CARDS.

This isn't a fan autograph scribbled quickly at the airport. You are doing it on your own terms on your own time. Take an extra half second and make a nice autograph. Your autograph doesn't need to be the signature you use for signing your cheques - it can be something as constructed as the public face you wear. Pick a nice one, hey?

 

[FrozenInferno]

I think rookies are obligated to sign for a certain amount of time while on their entry-level contracts, then after that it's up to them. How often to you see popular players just stop signing out of the blue a few years after their rookie season? My memory could be fuzzy but I seem to recall guys like Doughty, Subban and Stamkos signing up a storm for a couple of years then just disappearing from auto sets. I don't blame them for wanting a break after signing thousands and thousands of autos on the cheap for the first couple of years.

I think when it comes to cards they are paid on a per-auto basis, anywhere from $2 an auto to hundreds per auto depending on the player. It's different for public signings and appearances at places like Frozen Pond where I believe they are paid a lump sum for a couple hours of their time and whatever gets signed in that time gets signed.

Cards are different in that there are set amounts of autos getting packed into products and players sign them on their own time. Its easier to plan out and budget your products, say Player X will have 1000 autos, then pay him per auto.

 

[Superdoup]

Derrick Brassard said to a family member that it was not that much! Maybe this is why you don't see a lot of his autos...

 

[Triple B]

When I worked for the Jays, Josh Phelps said he was paid $3 per autograph and he would sign thousands to make it worthwhile.

I don't blame players for not signing. It's severely not worth the time. Some guys are happy the first time around but I'm sure it becomes a pain in the *** in short time.

 

[Burner]

I've heard that Crosby makes over $100 per auto...

I think that's quite high. $100,000 for 1,000 autos? I think some of these guys, not on the Crosby caliber, only make a few dollars an auto. If they can sign 1-2000 cards for an entire product year, that's still healthy amount of change for a couple hours of work.

 

[Leafsfan1967]

I think rookies are obligated to sign for a certain amount of time while on their entry-level contracts, then after that it's up to them. How often to you see popular players just stop signing out of the blue a few years after their rookie season? My memory could be fuzzy but I seem to recall guys like Doughty, Subban and Stamkos signing up a storm for a couple of years then just disappearing from auto sets. I don't blame them for wanting a break after signing thousands and thousands of autos on the cheap for the first couple of years.

I think when it comes to cards they are paid on a per-auto basis, anywhere from $2 an auto to hundreds per auto depending on the player. It's different for public signings and appearances at places like Frozen Pond where I believe they are paid a lump sum for a couple hours of their time and whatever gets signed in that time gets signed.

Cards are different in that there are set amounts of autos getting packed into products and players sign them on their own time. Its easier to plan out and budget your products, say Player X will have 1000 autos, then pay him per auto.

That is somewhat true, but not always the case. I will give you a couple examples. Ovechkin did a public appearance in his first year, and was paid $38 per auto. They charged the public $39. Why would they do it for a $1 profit per signature? Several reasons. 1) it establishes a good introductory experience with the athlete, and agent that banks future appearance guarantees, so to speak. They also taught him that hotel, arena, and airport signatures should be done a bit differently than paid versions, which Ovy had no idea about. 2) They make money off selling pucks, and photos at the signing, plus get for example 1,000 photos signed for inventory, which they sell over time at a much higher price.

As the demand for Ovechkin went up over the years, so did his prices for events. I was told his last appearance was done on a two hour time slot at $15K. Not sure if that included the mail orders, and store inventory, but I would assume it did. When Jagr came to a public appearance in Toronto, he was paid by the signature. I can't remember how much it was, but it was rather embarrassing to watch him sit with his rep, and make tick marks for every signature he signed. True story, I watched the entire 2 hour event. I have more stories, but it's not really up to me to devulge these stories, as it is not my business. Just a friend of the owner. I just wanted to let everyone know that it really depends on who the signer is.

 

[reoddai]

In 2012, when everything was falling down for Upper Deck, they got behind on their payments and the NFLPA sued them for monies owed to their players.

You can read about the lawsuit here:
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/nfl-tackles-upper-deck-another-lawsuit
You can read the actual complaint by the NFLPA here:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/03/20/FootballCards.pdf

In it, you can see how much money each player was alleged owed. I picked one guy at random:
Antonio Brown

Antonio Brown played i the NFL for 4 years and, in the lawsuit, stated that in August 2010, was given a contract by upper deck to "sign trading cards" for $500 + $1,248. (page 27&28, lines 215 to 238).

According to Beckett, in 2010 Upper deck release 4 sets for football in which Antonio signed:
65 Autos in Exquisite
599 autos in SPA
25 Autos in SPA gold
140 autos in SPX
------
829 autographs

For a grand total of approximately $2.11 per autograph.

A random pick of a second player, LeGarrette Blount (starting at page 184) had a similar setup for:
$1186.50 + $1276.50 = $2463
Except he signed at least 1379 autographs + an unknown number of "patch autos" (probably not too many)

For a grand total of approximately $1.78 per autograph.

Feel free to check the document and do your own checks over other players. I've heard similar numbers rumoured for hockey players too.

Common auto in hockey, we buy and sell for 1-2$. That's probably almost exactly what was paid for them.

Cheers,
reoddai

 

[BGH]

That is somewhat true, but not always the case. I will give you a couple examples. Ovechkin did a public appearance in his first year, and was paid $38 per auto. They charged the public $39. Why would they do it for a $1 profit per signature? Several reasons. 1) it establishes a good introductory experience with the athlete, and agent that banks future appearance guarantees, so to speak. They also taught him that hotel, arena, and airport signatures should be done a bit differently than paid versions, which Ovy had no idea about. 2) They make money off selling pucks, and photos at the signing, plus get for example 1,000 photos signed for inventory, which they sell over time at a much higher price.

Why "should" paid and non-paid autographs be different?

 

[RGM81]

Why "should" paid and non-paid autographs be different?

It sounds unfair on the surface, but there is a very good reason for it.

A lot of non-paid autographs are solicited by professional autograph hounds, who have no scruples about using kids as decoys to get those autographs. If an athlete is brought specially into town for a paid session, the host company is paying a lot of money for a professional job. Those pro hounds are then turning around selling those autographs right away whether it's in their own stores or online. It undercuts the guys who paid good money to bring in the athlete, and they get to profit big time for not having paid any fees, flights, hotel, and meals while still selling at full pop.

 

[geschrocks33]

It sounds unfair on the surface, but there is a very good reason for it.

A lot of non-paid autographs are solicited by professional autograph hounds, who have no scruples about using kids as decoys to get those autographs. If an athlete is brought specially into town for a paid session, the host company is paying a lot of money for a professional job. Those pro hounds are then turning around selling those autographs right away whether it's in their own stores or online. It undercuts the guys who paid good money to bring in the athlete, and they get to profit big time for not having paid any fees, flights, hotel, and meals while still selling at full pop.

Very true right here.

Not only that, but these people will go above and beyond to make sure they get their autos for free, and multiple copies. I've watched Patrick Roy tell a guy off, and Ryan Miller completely lose it and start swearing at a guy. They are relentless and really put a damper on someone like me that goes out every once in awhile to hotels to get an auto for a jersey or for my personal collection.

1st time I attempted to get one of my Clutterbuck jerseys signed, I was pushed down and out of the way by a guy with a binder of cards, resulting in my jersey being left unsigned. It's brutal around here. Even when a kid comes around the whole clan of hounders rolls their eyes. Let the kid have his fun and enjoy being in the spotlight.

Also - you can typically tell a difference in quality in some IP autos (outside a hotel, arena, etc.) compared to a sit down session.

 

[RGM81]

Yep. There was a bit on 24CH a couple seasons ago where Carey Price talks about this. He knows that for some people that autograph totally makes their day. Some of the guys that are there he makes their day every day. LOL

 

[geschrocks33]

Yep. There was a bit on 24CH a couple seasons ago where Carey Price talks about this. He knows that for some people that autograph totally makes their day. Some of the guys that are there he makes their day every day. LOL

Well I'll have to get Carey to make my day one of these times this year LOL :devil:

 

[thorn]

One Finnish player got 6$ per auto in the rookie season, total of 20,000$ in the first year.

 

[RGM81]

Well I'll have to get Carey to make my day one of these times this year LOL :devil:

Me too!

 

[Mauri]

Should be depending on players level...Gretzky / lemieux vs ovi/ Crosby vs 4th line players...

Well, as a McLeod collector who definitely qualifies as a fourth liner, I don't think he gets anything - based on the fact that there's exactly zero official AU cards ever made of him.

 

[Mack]

It sounds unfair on the surface, but there is a very good reason for it.

A lot of non-paid autographs are solicited by professional autograph hounds, who have no scruples about using kids as decoys to get those autographs. If an athlete is brought specially into town for a paid session, the host company is paying a lot of money for a professional job. Those pro hounds are then turning around selling those autographs right away whether it's in their own stores or online. It undercuts the guys who paid good money to bring in the athlete, and they get to profit big time for not having paid any fees, flights, hotel, and meals while still selling at full pop.

The other big thing is the difference in the auto quality. Locally Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle's auto are a bit different then when they are getting paid for the auto. Not all players have 2 versions of their autograph but most do.

Back to the topic one of the local guy's brother was a rookie a couple of years ago and I believe he was getting around $2 per auto and signed something like 10,000 auto's. Frick I can not even think how long it would take to sign that may autos....actually if it is hard signed and each auto will probably take on average 5-10 seconds, sign move the card, sign move the card.....so in a hour 180-360 autos, stickers(bandaids) safely say double that. That could mean 20-30 hours of signing cards for 10,000.