Through all of the issues we have had with Upper Deck during the new era of
monopolistic manufacturing I have pretty much kept quiet - and really have not had that many problems. Sure there were some redemption issues that got out of hand - but I did not kick and scream - and in the end Karvin Cheung did an unbelievable job in cleaning up a nice portion of the mess that most of our members had. Sure not always in everyones favor - but an admiral job.
And yes - despite Richard McWilliams ridiculous claims - Upper deck is no-where near it's 45 day mandate, but again - some people are actually getting taken care of with replacements - and some people are getting the shaft - so to speak. Yep - some people have left the hobby - and I do not blame them. They were mis-treated by the only company that is allowed to sell licensed cards of their teams and such. And others have chosen to speak with their wallets - and do not spend any money
directly with Upper Deck - but buy on the secondary market. Good for them - I have been in the Retail business for over 35 years - and that is the best way to handle it - do not buy a company's product if you do not feel that they are treating you properly.
Now we come to me.
As many of you know I am a huge supporter of my favorite team - the Detroit Red Wings. As such - I started collecting trading cards again in the late 90's after not doing so for many years. Wow - it was a blast the transformation in our hobby was incredible - and just in the space of about 5 years!!!! the cards were amazing - and jersey cards - patch cards - autograph patch cards - yikes!!!! And the proliferation of the internet - golly gee - the friends I have made. The collection I put together is not bad either!!!!I progressed - from buying boxes of cool products - to buying multiple boxes of almost every product - to a few years ago, buying cases(s) of a lot of products. And was it fun - I got to rip into cases knowing I was going to get case hits - as well as just plain getting lots of cool cards along the way. I would sell some of the items at auction or on the boards - and I would trade some for my favorite team, or even for Rookies that I thought had potential. Sometimes my cases were good and sometimes they were awful - but it was tolerable through it all. I will not go into specifics - but if you know me - or followed my posts you can probably guess that it would make a lot of people shudder.
Now we come to the crux of this long-winded diatribe:
After attempting to work through some quality control problems/issues with Upper Deck Customer Service on three different occasions - I have now hit the wall. I have also been told by the head of Customer Service that Upper Deck is in no way responsible for damaged items from their product unless, by some strange happenstance they have the exact item sitting there.
Case #1 - 2005/06
When Karvin was cleaning up the redemption mess, we were also discussing about 14 damaged items that I had from that year. I had sent them to Upper Deck Quality Assurance before I was introduceed to Karvin - and miraculously they all came back to me sealed in the plastic case I sent them in - in the exact order I shipped them out in. (I knew this - because I kept color copies of the items sent - and I packed them as I scanned them.) These were not $2 cards - there were Howe Auto's, a Jimmy Howard SPX Auto Jersey Gold Rookie #/25, Patrick Roy Jersey #/25 SP authentic Auto RC's #/900 and so on. Well Karvin got busy with the new products coming out - and turned me over to barry in Customer service. Cards go back to them - and lo & behold come back to me again - no help. Even though he knew Karvin asked me to wait until some of the initial redemption issues that they were trying to take care of quickly.
STRIKE #1
Case #2 - 2007/08
I have several issues with damaged items again - mostly with SP Game Used & SP Authentic. I have to return approximately 25% of the Rookie Cards from my SP Game Used case due to damages (Remember - this product has only 12 boxes/Case & 6 Packs/ Box & cards in the case!!) You get 2 RC's per box - so a case yeilds 24 Rookies - and 6 of them were badly damaged. I am told by Barry that they are minor cards and i cannot expect that Upper deck will have replacements - or be able to give me anything in exchange. Ummm - folks, we are talking about a product that costs about $1800 per case. So now I am to understand that most cards are worthless - in a product that has only about 220 cards per case!!!
With SP authentic - I had a fair number of damaged SP Notables that were numbered to #/1999 - Yep you guessed it NO replacements are available.
Strike #2
Case #3 2008
This begins back in May of 2008.
I received an inadequate redemption replacement from UD for one of my redemptions. I contacted Barry - and he took it back and added it back into my Redmption Account where it STILL remains. I also explained to him that I had a couple of damaged items that I was really not happy with - and that I had been basically screwed in the past as far as compensation. Barry asked me to send the damaged items back to him - and he would accomodate me. Sent items back on 05/19/08.On 07/27/08 I emailed Barry asking about the status of the larger 2 items that I sent back for replacement. The 2 items were - what I deemed a case hit from 07/08 UD Trilogy: A 3 Color Patch Auto of a name player #/10 and a Andrew Cogliano SP Authentic Future Watch Limited PAtch Auto #/100. There were a few other minor items - but those two were my main concern. On 08/27/08 I resent the same email asking about the replacements since I had not heard back from Barry. I received ALL of the items back from Upper Deck with no replacements in October 2008 with a nice form letter stating that they could not help me since the product had expired (only because they had it for 4+ months) and that they were including complimentary product for my trouble. Of course as you have already guessed -
THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING INCLUDED AT ALLL!!!!!!
During the Fall Expo 2008 - I used the opportunity to contact someone else at Upper Deck Customer Service. I talked with Crystal - and explained ALL of the ridiculous circumstance. I expressed my displeasure - and asked what she could do to help me. She tried to help me - and took notes, and told me that they would send me something to make up for the Trilogy Auto Patch, and that she would check on the Cogliano FW Auto Patch. On 11/13 Crystal called my cell phone voicemail and let me know that the item for the Trilogy had been shipped - but she needed me to send her back the Cogliano FW Auto Patch because she had found a replacement Cogliano.
On Nov 28th I received the adjustment for the trilogy Auto Patch limited to 10 copies - it was a Zetterberg 07/08 Artifacts Auto-Facts BV of $25 - HUH????? I called Crystal back on 12/02/08 and asked why I received a $25 Bv card for the Trilogy Auto Patch #/10 - and she stated that they realized their mistake and were sending out an item to make it right.On Dec 10 - I recieved a Fed Ex package frm Upper Deck. In it - there was the Cogliano patch I originally have sent back TWICE now - still damaged!!!!! Also - there was an OPC Premier Booby Orr Premier Stitching Patch #/99 that I had since pulled - also damaged. This time there was a couple of cards to "make up" the difference.
Here is what I received:
Some golf auto #/250 of a person that I never heard of
07/08 Ultimate Signatures Cogliano BV $25
07/08 Ultimate Signatures Ryder BV $10
07/08 UD Ice Glacial Graphs Gomex BV $10
07/08 SP Authentic Jonathan Toews SOTT BV $60
This is for :
Trilogy Ryder 3 Color Auto Patch #/10 NPDS
SP Authentic Coglaino FW Auto PAtch BV $80
07/08 OPC Premier Bobby Orr Stitching BV $60
Ummmm - I was pretty upset - especially considering that Crystal TOLD ME that she had another Cogliano to replace mine. Sorry this is a compliation of screwings by Upper Deck - not for expectations - but for damaged items from their production run.
And the Topper!!!!!!!!!
12/12/08 - I called Crystal - to talk about the situation today - she transferred me to Barry - the Head of Customer Service now. I will paraphrase - but the gist of the conversation was:I explained that I had worked in Retail Sales for over 35 years - and no other business tells their Customers that damages are their tough luck and not the manufacturers problem. I also asked why in the worl Crystal had me go through the expense of sending the cards back AGAIN - when they were not rteplaced again!!!! Barry explained to me that the policy of Upper Deck is that if they cannot replace the item with the same thing.......... THEN THEY WOULD NOT REPLACE IT AT ALL. TOO BAD - I AM SORRY - BUT THIS IS NOT LIKE A REGULAR MANUFACTURER.
Strike #3 - I'm Out!!!
And here is the meaning of my post header.
I told Barry flat out - that it was unacceptable.
Furthermore - I know that Upper Deck (or Barry) does not think that my business matters - but that due to the way I was treated - I can no longer purchase any of their products. I am sure that he hears that all of the time - and that a lot of people boast to him that they purchase a lot of product, he basically agreed that everyone says they buy a lot. Well - I am not the little boy that cried wolf.
Effective today I have cancelled all future pre-orders with 3 of the 4 people I do a lot of business with.
Sure it was small potatoes - but it was 7 cases of future product in the next 2 months. Furthermore - I will not be ordering any future products either.This does not mean I am leaving the Hobby - but I cannot help but think that it will impact my future
collecting in some way. Hmmm - it is Decmber 12th - and I have already gone through 4 cases of Upper deck 08/09 product as well as 10 boxes of older product like OPC Premier & 07/08 SP Authentic.
No More. I am done until such time as I feel that UD will actually take accountibilty for damaged items - which I am pretty sure by the way I was treated - is never. Although I have contacted my local Hobby Shop and explained to the owner (and a fairly large Distributor) that I will no longer be placing orders - he seemed to think he may be able to make some head-way for me.
Sorry to make this such a long post - but I think at this time that the way I was treated needs to be brought to light. I am not asking anyone to post on here bashing Upper Deck - please do not do it.I am simply stating what I need to - and get it off my chest - as I am quite unhappy about it. If you want to know how serious I am about future purchases - I actually called and cancelled my credit card that
I used just for the Hobby - that should tell you!!!!
I hope everyone has a great great Holiday.
Thanks for listening!!!!!
bruce (suitman19)
monopolistic manufacturing I have pretty much kept quiet - and really have not had that many problems. Sure there were some redemption issues that got out of hand - but I did not kick and scream - and in the end Karvin Cheung did an unbelievable job in cleaning up a nice portion of the mess that most of our members had. Sure not always in everyones favor - but an admiral job.
And yes - despite Richard McWilliams ridiculous claims - Upper deck is no-where near it's 45 day mandate, but again - some people are actually getting taken care of with replacements - and some people are getting the shaft - so to speak. Yep - some people have left the hobby - and I do not blame them. They were mis-treated by the only company that is allowed to sell licensed cards of their teams and such. And others have chosen to speak with their wallets - and do not spend any money
directly with Upper Deck - but buy on the secondary market. Good for them - I have been in the Retail business for over 35 years - and that is the best way to handle it - do not buy a company's product if you do not feel that they are treating you properly.
Now we come to me.
As many of you know I am a huge supporter of my favorite team - the Detroit Red Wings. As such - I started collecting trading cards again in the late 90's after not doing so for many years. Wow - it was a blast the transformation in our hobby was incredible - and just in the space of about 5 years!!!! the cards were amazing - and jersey cards - patch cards - autograph patch cards - yikes!!!! And the proliferation of the internet - golly gee - the friends I have made. The collection I put together is not bad either!!!!I progressed - from buying boxes of cool products - to buying multiple boxes of almost every product - to a few years ago, buying cases(s) of a lot of products. And was it fun - I got to rip into cases knowing I was going to get case hits - as well as just plain getting lots of cool cards along the way. I would sell some of the items at auction or on the boards - and I would trade some for my favorite team, or even for Rookies that I thought had potential. Sometimes my cases were good and sometimes they were awful - but it was tolerable through it all. I will not go into specifics - but if you know me - or followed my posts you can probably guess that it would make a lot of people shudder.
Now we come to the crux of this long-winded diatribe:
After attempting to work through some quality control problems/issues with Upper Deck Customer Service on three different occasions - I have now hit the wall. I have also been told by the head of Customer Service that Upper Deck is in no way responsible for damaged items from their product unless, by some strange happenstance they have the exact item sitting there.
Case #1 - 2005/06
When Karvin was cleaning up the redemption mess, we were also discussing about 14 damaged items that I had from that year. I had sent them to Upper Deck Quality Assurance before I was introduceed to Karvin - and miraculously they all came back to me sealed in the plastic case I sent them in - in the exact order I shipped them out in. (I knew this - because I kept color copies of the items sent - and I packed them as I scanned them.) These were not $2 cards - there were Howe Auto's, a Jimmy Howard SPX Auto Jersey Gold Rookie #/25, Patrick Roy Jersey #/25 SP authentic Auto RC's #/900 and so on. Well Karvin got busy with the new products coming out - and turned me over to barry in Customer service. Cards go back to them - and lo & behold come back to me again - no help. Even though he knew Karvin asked me to wait until some of the initial redemption issues that they were trying to take care of quickly.
STRIKE #1
Case #2 - 2007/08
I have several issues with damaged items again - mostly with SP Game Used & SP Authentic. I have to return approximately 25% of the Rookie Cards from my SP Game Used case due to damages (Remember - this product has only 12 boxes/Case & 6 Packs/ Box & cards in the case!!) You get 2 RC's per box - so a case yeilds 24 Rookies - and 6 of them were badly damaged. I am told by Barry that they are minor cards and i cannot expect that Upper deck will have replacements - or be able to give me anything in exchange. Ummm - folks, we are talking about a product that costs about $1800 per case. So now I am to understand that most cards are worthless - in a product that has only about 220 cards per case!!!
With SP authentic - I had a fair number of damaged SP Notables that were numbered to #/1999 - Yep you guessed it NO replacements are available.
Strike #2
Case #3 2008
This begins back in May of 2008.
I received an inadequate redemption replacement from UD for one of my redemptions. I contacted Barry - and he took it back and added it back into my Redmption Account where it STILL remains. I also explained to him that I had a couple of damaged items that I was really not happy with - and that I had been basically screwed in the past as far as compensation. Barry asked me to send the damaged items back to him - and he would accomodate me. Sent items back on 05/19/08.On 07/27/08 I emailed Barry asking about the status of the larger 2 items that I sent back for replacement. The 2 items were - what I deemed a case hit from 07/08 UD Trilogy: A 3 Color Patch Auto of a name player #/10 and a Andrew Cogliano SP Authentic Future Watch Limited PAtch Auto #/100. There were a few other minor items - but those two were my main concern. On 08/27/08 I resent the same email asking about the replacements since I had not heard back from Barry. I received ALL of the items back from Upper Deck with no replacements in October 2008 with a nice form letter stating that they could not help me since the product had expired (only because they had it for 4+ months) and that they were including complimentary product for my trouble. Of course as you have already guessed -
THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING INCLUDED AT ALLL!!!!!!
During the Fall Expo 2008 - I used the opportunity to contact someone else at Upper Deck Customer Service. I talked with Crystal - and explained ALL of the ridiculous circumstance. I expressed my displeasure - and asked what she could do to help me. She tried to help me - and took notes, and told me that they would send me something to make up for the Trilogy Auto Patch, and that she would check on the Cogliano FW Auto Patch. On 11/13 Crystal called my cell phone voicemail and let me know that the item for the Trilogy had been shipped - but she needed me to send her back the Cogliano FW Auto Patch because she had found a replacement Cogliano.
On Nov 28th I received the adjustment for the trilogy Auto Patch limited to 10 copies - it was a Zetterberg 07/08 Artifacts Auto-Facts BV of $25 - HUH????? I called Crystal back on 12/02/08 and asked why I received a $25 Bv card for the Trilogy Auto Patch #/10 - and she stated that they realized their mistake and were sending out an item to make it right.On Dec 10 - I recieved a Fed Ex package frm Upper Deck. In it - there was the Cogliano patch I originally have sent back TWICE now - still damaged!!!!! Also - there was an OPC Premier Booby Orr Premier Stitching Patch #/99 that I had since pulled - also damaged. This time there was a couple of cards to "make up" the difference.
Here is what I received:
Some golf auto #/250 of a person that I never heard of
07/08 Ultimate Signatures Cogliano BV $25
07/08 Ultimate Signatures Ryder BV $10
07/08 UD Ice Glacial Graphs Gomex BV $10
07/08 SP Authentic Jonathan Toews SOTT BV $60
This is for :
Trilogy Ryder 3 Color Auto Patch #/10 NPDS
SP Authentic Coglaino FW Auto PAtch BV $80
07/08 OPC Premier Bobby Orr Stitching BV $60
Ummmm - I was pretty upset - especially considering that Crystal TOLD ME that she had another Cogliano to replace mine. Sorry this is a compliation of screwings by Upper Deck - not for expectations - but for damaged items from their production run.
And the Topper!!!!!!!!!
12/12/08 - I called Crystal - to talk about the situation today - she transferred me to Barry - the Head of Customer Service now. I will paraphrase - but the gist of the conversation was:I explained that I had worked in Retail Sales for over 35 years - and no other business tells their Customers that damages are their tough luck and not the manufacturers problem. I also asked why in the worl Crystal had me go through the expense of sending the cards back AGAIN - when they were not rteplaced again!!!! Barry explained to me that the policy of Upper Deck is that if they cannot replace the item with the same thing.......... THEN THEY WOULD NOT REPLACE IT AT ALL. TOO BAD - I AM SORRY - BUT THIS IS NOT LIKE A REGULAR MANUFACTURER.
Strike #3 - I'm Out!!!
And here is the meaning of my post header.
I told Barry flat out - that it was unacceptable.
Furthermore - I know that Upper Deck (or Barry) does not think that my business matters - but that due to the way I was treated - I can no longer purchase any of their products. I am sure that he hears that all of the time - and that a lot of people boast to him that they purchase a lot of product, he basically agreed that everyone says they buy a lot. Well - I am not the little boy that cried wolf.
Effective today I have cancelled all future pre-orders with 3 of the 4 people I do a lot of business with.
Sure it was small potatoes - but it was 7 cases of future product in the next 2 months. Furthermore - I will not be ordering any future products either.This does not mean I am leaving the Hobby - but I cannot help but think that it will impact my future
collecting in some way. Hmmm - it is Decmber 12th - and I have already gone through 4 cases of Upper deck 08/09 product as well as 10 boxes of older product like OPC Premier & 07/08 SP Authentic.
No More. I am done until such time as I feel that UD will actually take accountibilty for damaged items - which I am pretty sure by the way I was treated - is never. Although I have contacted my local Hobby Shop and explained to the owner (and a fairly large Distributor) that I will no longer be placing orders - he seemed to think he may be able to make some head-way for me.
Sorry to make this such a long post - but I think at this time that the way I was treated needs to be brought to light. I am not asking anyone to post on here bashing Upper Deck - please do not do it.I am simply stating what I need to - and get it off my chest - as I am quite unhappy about it. If you want to know how serious I am about future purchases - I actually called and cancelled my credit card that
I used just for the Hobby - that should tell you!!!!
I hope everyone has a great great Holiday.
Thanks for listening!!!!!
bruce (suitman19)
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