A great read from an impartial observer

Sorry, but I disagree. There was nothing great about that read. The guy clearly dislikes the game of hockey, clearly knows nothing about hockey or it's past labour issues, yet seems to think he is an expert on the situation? Not bloody likely. In fact I'm not sure if he was just trying to be funny or something, but I found the tone of the writing almost childish and immature. But maybe that's just me.
 
An impartial observer? From the tone of the article, the only thing that is clear is that this guy is anything but impartial. The guy doesn't have a clue. He and Fehr are both underestimating the NHL. Just wait and see. When they cancel the season, the players will revolt and Fehr will fade off into the sunset.
 
i think the writer is very biased. he can understand what Fehr was hired to do but doesn't seem to understand that Bettman was also hired to do a job?

I have no reason to doubt that the owners view Fehr with disdain. He is not giving them what they want. That stance invites disdain even though as the man hired to protect the players’ right to earn a fair share of league revenue, Fehr is simply doing what the players hired him to do.
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It was pure Bettman arrogance saying who is this newcomer to challenge me? Instead of trying to make a deal that would benefit the league, Bettman is trying to hammer Fehr into submission so he would accept a deal that would benefit the owners.
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I want my 10 minutes back. That was garbage that if in actual print I would not wipe my you know what with. I kept reading thinking there would be a funny turn to the story only to reach the end and realize he was serious. Very unejumicated article;)
 
An interesting article from the perspective of someone who is clearly a fan of Donald Fehr. It does give some info on Fehr, but the author, and it seems throughout these negotiations that Donald Fehr has also, underestimated Gary Bettman. Much like the author asserts that Bettman has underestimated Fehr.

The one thing that this article is not though is fair and balanced. The author clearly has an agenda, which is fine. Most people do.
 
The author never claimed to be impartial, the OT did.

It does give an interesting look into Fehr's background and how he sees the situation. Although, it really isn't anything new. Most people knew that when Fehr was hired, Bettman and the NHL owners were in trouble. Everyone knew Fehr's background and what he was capable of.

The real question is, "Did Bettman and the owners take Fehr serious enough"? IMO, I would have to say no. With the lateness of negotiations, the ridiculous opening offer, and the hard ball/take it or leave it stances, I knew we were headed for a lockout. It also seems to imply that Bettman and the NHL owners think they're smarter than Selig and the MLB owners.

This is what happens when an immoveable object meets an unstoppable force.
 
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TanguayFan said:
Sorry, but I disagree. There was nothing great about that read. The guy clearly dislikes the game of hockey, clearly knows nothing about hockey or it's past labour issues, yet seems to think he is an expert on the situation? Not bloody likely. In fact I'm not sure if he was just trying to be funny or something, but I found the tone of the writing almost childish and immature. But maybe that's just me.
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Labour issues are labour issues. You don't need to be an expert in hockey to be a Commissioner (Bettman from Basketball) or be a Union head (Fehr from Baseball)


habsheaven said:
An impartial observer? From the tone of the article, the only thing that is clear is that this guy is anything but impartial. The guy doesn't have a clue. He and Fehr are both underestimating the NHL. Just wait and see. When they cancel the season, the players will revolt and Fehr will fade off into the sunset.
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In the end, does anyone really win if there's a cancelled season?

Did the owners win the last CBA lockout because the players caved? Apparently not in the eyes of the owners.
 
tiger tiger said:
The author never claimed to be impartial, the OT did.

It does give an interesting look into Fehr's background and how he sees the situation. Although, it really isn't anything new. Most people knew that when Fehr was hired, Bettman and the NHL owners were in trouble. Everyone knew Fehr's background and what he was capable of.

The real question is, "Did Bettman and the owners take Fehr serious enough"? IMO, I would have to say no. With the lateness of negotiations, the ridiculous opening offer, and the hard ball/take it or leave it stances, I knew we were headed for a lockout. It also seems to imply that Bettman and the NHL owners think they're smarter than Selig and the MLB owners.

This is what happens when an immoveable object meets an unstoppable force.
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The NHL tried to start negotiations a year ago. The NHLPA said no. It would be hard to under-estimate Fehr given his well-known reputation. I clearly think that Fehr has under-estimated the resolve of the NHL.

And for the record, I never said anyone "WINS" in this situation. As with most disagreements, all parties lose despite the end result.
 
habsheaven said:
The NHL tried to start negotiations a year ago. The NHLPA said no. It would be hard to under-estimate Fehr given his well-known reputation. I clearly think that Fehr has under-estimated the resolve of the NHL.

And for the record, I never said anyone "WINS" in this situation. As with most disagreements, all parties lose despite the end result.
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IMO, I don't think Fehr under-estimated the resolve of the NHL either. He knew the owners would be willing to lock out their players. Plus it wasn't something completely foreign to the players. Fehr's job, however, was to negotiate stronger and better for the players, which his predecessors were unable to do. He did use tactics that caused this lockout too.

Currently and sadly, the owners/NHLPA look at the situation with a winner and a loser, and each side wants to be the winner. The NHLPA came out the "loser" after the last CBA negotiations, but turned out to be "winners" because of the huge growth in revenue. The owners thought they were "winners", but now they think they didn't win enough.

If the players revolt, and Fehr fades into the sunset, I'm pretty sure Bettman and the owners will be jumping for joy in their boardroom giving awkward hi-5's to each other and yelling, "We win! We win!". You can be sure that Bettman won't be able to contain his sh t eating grin at that press conference.

But I highly doubt there will be a players revolt, given how the players feel they weren't treated as partners in the last CBA negotiations and were forced to agree to the owner's terms.

I also don't want a players revolt because it would almost guarantee another threat of lockout in the next CBA negotiations, because it's works so well in the past. I'd prefer both sides to give something up to get things settled and re-build the trust. But both sides feel they've already given up the world.


Both sides are already fools for cancelling any games. Cancel an entire season, give up $3.3B in revenue (+ future damages), have a 3rd work-stoppage in 18 years??? You don't have to know anything about hockey or the NHL to know that it's a gong show, especially at the big business level.


But as BigBarracuda said, "There ain't no hockey."
 
reoddai said:
I read the article above. I think this one is more deserving of the "great read from an impartial observer" definition.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1415

Cheers,
reoddai
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This is a much more informed writer penning this article. Very thoughtful. While I don't agree with some of it, it is the last section that is most stark, and ultimately what I am envisioning myself as the future.
 
canucksfreak19 said:
This is a much more informed writer penning this article. Very thoughtful. While I don't agree with some of it, it is the last section that is most stark, and ultimately what I am envisioning myself as the future.
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Agreed. The NHL is very cocky right now saying they have no worries about the pending disclaimer and I know for sure that if it gets to courts it will not play out the way the NHL is claiming it will.

In the end I truly believe this will not make it to the courts and they will come to an agreement within the next two-three weeks. Letting this play out in courts will kill this season and next for sure and pretty much kill the league.

The NHL thought they could lockout the players like they did last time and all they had to do was lean on them a little and get whatever they wanted and the players proved that they aren't going to be pushed around anymore.

We'll see if I'm right. I hope I am.
 
slckrsx said:
Agreed. The NHL is very cocky right now saying they have no worries about the pending disclaimer and I know for sure that if it gets to courts it will not play out the way the NHL is claiming it will.

In the end I truly believe this will not make it to the courts and they will come to an agreement within the next two-three weeks. Letting this play out in courts will kill this season and next for sure and pretty much kill the league.

The NHL thought they could lockout the players like they did last time and all they had to do was lean on them a little and get whatever they wanted and the players proved that they aren't going to be pushed around anymore.

We'll see if I'm right. I hope I am.
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The arrogance of the PA has been giving the arrogance of the league a serious challenge throughout this whole process.

Both sides want to "win" something that shouldn't be about winning at all.
 
The case is assigned to a relatively new Federal Court District Judge, Paul A. Engelmayer. Judge Engelmayer is a graduate of Harvard law school and a former U.S. District Attorney. Federal Judges tend to be serious people who are not amused by efforts to use their Courts to leverage negotiations. Whether the NHL and the NHLPA want full scale, intense Federal Court litigation or not, once the litigation was filed, there was no halfway. Absent a quick settlement, there was no turning back once this step was taken.

Which translates roughly to "I guarantee you I'll rule in such a way to screw you both over."

Although not directly related, I was listening to a conversation on the radio the other day from a former Federal prosecutor discussing the league's current filing. He made the interesting comment that Federal prosecutor's (which this judge apparently used to be) are none too happy with pro athlete's due to Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens acquittals. He seemed to think that although it's apples and oranges to compare these situations, the perception among Federal types is athlete's are spoiled brats and although personal feelings are not supposed to come in to play they might.

Granted that's just one guy's opinion but I tend to at least give it some thought considering he was in the same line of work as this Judge.
 
canucksfreak19 said:
The arrogance of the PA has been giving the arrogance of the league a serious challenge throughout this whole process.

Both sides want to "win" something that shouldn't be about winning at all.
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I don't think the PA's arrogance is anywhere near the level the NHL has been displaying.

First, let's rush and sign a bunch of players to ridiculous long term big money contracts before the cba expires. Then, let's start this whole thing off on the wrong foot by giving the PA an absolutely ridiculous first offer claiming they need to get rid of the types of contracts that they were rushing to sign players to only a few weeks prior. Then, let's walk away from bargaining multiple times stating this is our best offer take it or leave it. Finally, let's claim we've made major moves towards the players when all we've done is come of our stupid first offer but still offer nothing to the players that is better than what they previously had.

I've been pro PA in this mess but I will say that they are not innocent either. Fehr's tatic from the day they got the first offer was to delay, delay, delay until the very last second to try and get the best deal possible and that is wrong but I believe the NHL has not been bargaining in good faith from day one and if they went about the whole thing in a different way we would not have missed any hockey.

In the end I have lost any shred of respect for Bettman and the NHL owners because of how they've handled this whole situation and in the end the NHL is where it is because Bettman and those owners DO NOT know how to run their league properly.

I am very interested to see the backlash, if any, the fans will show towards the league once this is all over.
 
slckrsx said:
First, let's rush and sign a bunch of players to ridiculous long term big money contracts before the cba expires. Then, let's start this whole thing off on the wrong foot by giving the PA an absolutely ridiculous first offer claiming they need to get rid of the types of contracts that they were rushing to sign players to only a few weeks prior. Then, let's walk away from bargaining multiple times stating this is our best offer take it or leave it. Finally, let's claim we've made major moves towards the players when all we've done is come of our stupid first offer but still offer nothing to the players that is better than what they previously had.
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The leagues first offer of 43 percent was in direct response to the player's ACTUALLY getting 57 percent in the last CBA. I don't think the players honestly felt they could keep the 57 percent advantage but were willing to gradually get there rather than immediately drop to 50/50. Fehr knew the owners would never accept less than that yet he kept regurgitating the same counteroffer's designed to keep the percentages in the players favor through smoke and mirrors.

He's wasted just as much, if not more, time than the league has.
 
slckrsx said:
I don't think the PA's arrogance is anywhere near the level the NHL has been displaying.

First, let's rush and sign a bunch of players to ridiculous long term big money contracts before the cba expires. Then, let's start this whole thing off on the wrong foot by giving the PA an absolutely ridiculous first offer claiming they need to get rid of the types of contracts that they were rushing to sign players to only a few weeks prior. Then, let's walk away from bargaining multiple times stating this is our best offer take it or leave it. Finally, let's claim we've made major moves towards the players when all we've done is come of our stupid first offer but still offer nothing to the players that is better than what they previously had.

I've been pro PA in this mess but I will say that they are not innocent either. Fehr's tatic from the day they got the first offer was to delay, delay, delay until the very last second to try and get the best deal possible and that is wrong but I believe the NHL has not been bargaining in good faith from day one and if they went about the whole thing in a different way we would not have missed any hockey.

In the end I have lost any shred of respect for Bettman and the NHL owners because of how they've handled this whole situation and in the end the NHL is where it is because Bettman and those owners DO NOT know how to run their league properly.

I am very interested to see the backlash, if any, the fans will show towards the league once this is all over.
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It is not just the league that has not been bargaining in good faith. The PA is just as guilty. The PA's first offer, which was also their second, third offer was to completely change the system that was in place. Don't think for a second that that was not just as insulting to the owners as the owners first offer to the players was.

When the league made its last offer there was skepticism from most of the experts as to the tone of the discussions at that point. The word coming out was that in the counter that PA was drafting they were either going to accept the contract length/variance, or at the very least accept the 10 year CBA term that the league had proposed. And they didn't even do that. Why not just accept a 10 year CBA term when everybody wants as long a term as possible. Again it's hubris.

This is just me, but I believe that Donald Fehr's arrogance and underestimation of the league can be traced back to his refusal to begin negotiations during the last season, like the league wanted to do. I don't believe he thought the owners would be willing to go this far again. If discussions had started during last season we likely wouldn't be in this situation now. That is probably a fairly large reason why I find myself blaming the PA, and finding no reason to support them. But to be fair I don't support the owners either. They were the ones that actually initiated this work stoppage.

Personally I would like to see guaranteed contracts out the window at this point. If that has to be done through the courts, and the voiding of all player contracts then so be it. Make a player really earn his money. Just like every non-athlete does.

I have no respect for anyone on either side of this cluster.
 
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