Altered PSA C55 Vezina

[C55]

Hi,

This is a card that has previously sold:

This is how it appears in the PWCC auction preview:

There was a stain on the back and it seems that the card was treated in a way to remove it. The color now appears lighter. The top left corner has also been touched up.

I have emailed PWCC about it.

Thanks,
Anish

Just a silly question, but how do you tell they are the same card (It is a little hard to tell in the scans). Looks like a scratch above the eye on the right hand side? Just curious is all.

In addition to the scratch - which is very distinct - there are small flecks of white on the same places, the centering is exactly the same, and all the corners have the same sharpness/rounding.

Do you have before and after scans of the back? I do see your point on the top left hand corner. It does look touched-up. You can tell on the PSA 4 version that it looks as if that corner had been dirtier before. I am surprised PSA didn't catch this. Looks like the card was cracked out of the original slab and then resubmitted. I don't think there is much PWCC can do for you, but I would notify PSA.

There is a before scan I could post, but since the after scan is from an auction preview, the back scan has not yet been posted.

It's going to be offered for sale next month unless PWCC pulls it, which they probably will. I have never owned it.

Wow. I definitely agree its the same card. Nice catch Anish. PSA definitely should have caught this and labelled this as "Authentic - Altered Stock".

I'd love to know who bought the 2 and had it restored.

Indeed. It was a very nice looking card already; shame that someone would alter it and even worse, perhaps, that PSA didn't catch it.

I'm not sure if they consider the removal of dirt to be an alteration.

Yes, they certainly do.

Have you read the book Mint Condition?
They thoroughly speak about this at the end of the book. Some people are 'experts' in this.

PSA states that they do not grade altered cards. This card has been altered, yet they graded it. That's all I'm saying.

I'm well aware people get away with altering cards, if that's what you're getting at.

 

[bwmechtech]

Just a silly question, but how do you tell they are the same card (It is a little hard to tell in the scans). Looks like a scratch above the eye on the right hand side? Just curious is all.

 

[cburt]

Hi,

This is a card that has previously sold:

This is how it appears in the PWCC auction preview:

There was a stain on the back and it seems that the card was treated in a way to remove it. The color now appears lighter. The top left corner has also been touched up.

I have emailed PWCC about it.

Thanks,
Anish

Do you have before and after scans of the back? I do see your point on the top left hand corner. It does look touched-up. You can tell on the PSA 4 version that it looks as if that corner had been dirtier before. I am surprised PSA didn't catch this. Looks like the card was cracked out of the original slab and then resubmitted. I don't think there is much PWCC can do for you, but I would notify PSA.

PSA states that they do not grade altered cards. This card has been altered, yet they graded it. That's all I'm saying.

I'm well aware people get away with altering cards, if that's what you're getting at.

You're correct. PSA also used to not graded sheet cut cards but they have for awhile now. It has also been found that on a number of occasions PSA has also unknowingly graded trimmed cards as well. Although I am generally a fan of PSA, they are not an infallible grading company.

 

[gomaz]

Wow. I definitely agree its the same card. Nice catch Anish. PSA definitely should have caught this and labelled this as "Authentic - Altered Stock".

I'd love to know who bought the 2 and had it restored.

 

[bruinsman]

I'm not sure if they consider the removal of dirt to be an alteration.

Yes, they certainly do.

Have you read the book Mint Condition?
They thoroughly speak about this at the end of the book. Some people are 'experts' in this.

 

[will-411]

Interesting... so removing a stain makes it altered, but the card gaining a stain on it in the first place doesn't make it altered?

I hate grading.

Cory

 

[C55]

Interesting... so removing a stain makes it altered, but the card gaining a stain on it in the first place doesn't make it altered?

I hate grading.

Cory

An alteration is defined as an intentional change to the card that is intended to make it more appealing.

 

[will-411]

Interesting. So even if nothing is added (coloring, filler, etc) it's considered altered? To me, that's like saying a barn find of an old vintage car that has been dusted off is not original. But if that's the industry standard, then doesn't matter what I think. I just find it absurd.

I do understand though that most paper 'cleanings' would require some sort of chemical process which I would consider altered. So perhaps the standard simply errs on the side of caution.

I still hate the randomness of the grading world.

Cory

 

[junyab]

I wonder if these guys had anything to do with it:

http://www.gonewiththestain.com/

 

[C55]

Interesting. So even if nothing is added (coloring, filler, etc) it's considered altered? To me, that's like saying a barn find of an old vintage car that has been dusted off is not original. But if that's the industry standard, then doesn't matter what I think. I just find it absurd.

I do understand though that most paper 'cleanings' would require some sort of chemical process which I would consider altered. So perhaps the standard simply errs on the side of caution.

I still hate the randomness of the grading world.

Cory

The issue for me is that PSA - and the other major grading companies - state that they will not grade a card that has been restored in any way. They reject countless cards as altered, yet here ignored obvious alteration. If they all changed their policies to allow this type of restoration, at least that would be forthcoming.

And yes, the card has likely been soaked in a chemical solution - not just dusted off.

I wonder if these guys had anything to do with it:

http://www.gonewiththestain.com/

Yup, it's quite possible.

 

[bruinsman]

I wonder if these guys had anything to do with it:

http://www.gonewiththestain.com/

They can definitely use an update to their website!