BAP Compensation NOT

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bergy37

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I posed this question to Upper Deck on Facebook

"Chris,
Any compensation planned for those like me who opened multiple cases of BAP based on the checklist originally posted? I opened 5 cases hoping to make a big dent in the Signatures set and sell the muti-auto cards to recoup some of my cost. But I didn't pull a single quad auto or higher nor did I pull any of the now identified short prints. Leaves me feeling kind of short-changed.
Tom"

And received this reply

"Tom,
We will not be compensating customers for the checklist discrepancy. Changes to checklists can and frequently do happen. When realized, they are corrected immediately and we share that information with the public."

Where is the "sorry that happened" or "we'll make sure it doesn't happen again". I understand that changes will happen before release but that was not a preliminary checklist - it was posted after the product was live and not corrected until 2 weeks later. Technically, my cases did have a signature in every pack but a little good will would have been nice. I didn't even pull one of the numerous short prints! My case-busting days may just be over after the 2 cases of The Cup that I already pre-ordered.

I guess this make me a hypocrite but I am still trying to finish the set since I am so close. Here is what I still need if anyone can help:

Rene Bourque Signatures
Paul Stastny Signatures - SP
Ryan Suter Signatures - SP
T.J. Oshie Signatures - SP
Ilya Bryzgalov Signatures - SP - haven't seen a single one yet
Zdeno Chara Signatures - SP - haven't seen a single one yet
Evgeny Malkin Signatures - SP 1/1 - will never happen
Heatley/Thornton/Marleau Triple Signatures
 
Im not surprised imo they waited 2 weeks to release it because they knew it wouldnt sell if they announced the changes at the beginning. I would bet my first born on it.
 
Ive dealt with Chris guy before. I simply ask him a question, he then replies saying that he will compensate me for $xx? amount. But if he bothered to read anything that I wrote, I wasnt asking for anything except an answer(which he never did answer), and the $$ amount was only part of the BV loss on the cards that took a year to get to me. Instead of answering questions they try and buy their way out of a jam with tossing free stuff at you. I turned down the cards, because I already told him that none of my collections will ever see another UpperDeck product again.
If I seen UD headquarters on fire, I wouldn't piss on it to help put it out.

Its pointless and utterly useless to even try to talk to anyone at that crap hole of a business. Next time if you want, just paypal me the money you want to spend on CrapperDeck Products and I will be happy to kick you in the nuts instead. At least this way you know I will come through on my end of the deal :devil:
 
bergy37 said:
"Changes to checklists can and frequently do happen. When realized, they are corrected immediately and we share that information with the public."
Click to expand...

That's the biggest load of horse manure I've ever read. There are checklists on their website that have been wrong for years. They have been contact to correct, but never have. Give me a break.
 
If you buy Upper Deck products based on the checklist, then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. They advertise on all of their checklists that they are subject to change. They very rarely update their inaccurate checklists, but anyone in the hobby knows that what Upper Deck tells you will be in your box before release, and what actually ends up in there are often different, even in the Cup.
 
I just read on their facebook. Someone asked how rare a specific card was. Meaning print run I am assuming.
Uppderdeck's response - "We are not releasing print run information on that card, rather letting the market determine the rarity of those cards."

If im wrong I will admit it and shut my flan hole, but how can the market determine how rare a card is? Isnt that based on how many were made?
 
foley2k said:
I just read on their facebook. Someone asked how rare a specific card was. Meaning print run I am assuming.
Uppderdeck's response - "We are not releasing print run information on that card, rather letting the market determine the rarity of those cards."

If im wrong I will admit it and shut my flan hole, but how can the market determine how rare a card is? Isnt that based on how many were made?
Click to expand...

Bolded is simply amazing.

"How many fingers am I holding up behind my back??"

" Three".

"Well, three it is then".
 
Old school UD bait and switch, My favorite was 06-07 Ultra. The box shows an amazing patch card of Rick Nash guess which card was never released?
 
lecavalier4 said:
I suggest a call to the BBB. Maybe a class action lawsuit for good measure.
Click to expand...

They cant do a thing. Ive already called them and we had a back and forth where UD would talk to them and I would as well. They closed my case and took my complaint. They cant make UD do anything all they can do is keep record of complaints and give them a score based on the complaints. They are already an F company in case you were wondering.
 
I posted some type of complaint over the weekend on there, telling everyone to buy ITG so they don't have to worry about this kind of problem. I also spoke about how shady it was of UD to rush this product out before the Cup Finals and then change the checklist later. Monday morning, it was gone. Thank you Dr. Price for updating your checklists before release, not weeks after leaving out some of the more desired cards from your preliminary checklists.
 
I guess they couldn't pull the old "redemption switch" in BAP (promising you CRAZY cards in redemption form, only to never make them and have the poor sap who pulled it switch out for the ever popular Carey Price Ultimate Autograph) so they did the next best thing...the old "checklist bait and switch".

Stay thirsty, my friends.
 
foley2k said:
I just read on their facebook. Someone asked how rare a specific card was. Meaning print run I am assuming.
Uppderdeck's response - "We are not releasing print run information on that card, rather letting the market determine the rarity of those cards."

If im wrong I will admit it and shut my flan hole, but how can the market determine how rare a card is? Isnt that based on how many were made?
Click to expand...


Don't slap me... but:

BAP/ITG has also (many times) not released any print run information on cards from their sets. Case in point is older auto releases of BAP Signature, and memorabilia in early releases of BAP Memorabilia. I can also think of instances where a certain players cards are not listed as SP's even though there were more redemptions in the product than were available from BAP/ITG.

The auction market will determine the rarity of a card - just look at some of the SP's in 09/10 UD BAP. As has been noted on these boards a few very common players are going for high prices in relation to their talent level and collectibility.

This is not a pro UD or anti ITG post (DON"T START!).
I am just commenting on the release of print runs - and not on the issue of checklists.

If I were to comment on the issue of checklists that are posted AFTER the release of a product in the marketplace - that was subsequently revised (drastically I may add) - than I would probably get a week long vacation from said forum.

Bruce
 
foley2k said:
Uppderdeck's response - "We are not releasing print run information on that card, rather letting the market determine the rarity of those cards."
Click to expand...

I am thinking that the statement above was extremely poorly worded, but probably not the more sinister complete lack of hobby understanding that it's being made out to be. What UD is trying to say is that they simply don't want to release print runs, and would rather let the cards hit the market so people can make a determination on their own.

That's not a defense of the concept -- because I'd prefer that print runs are provided on all cards. Just a possible explanation. What does worry me about the statement is that it could be a smokescreen or excuse for eventually allowing additional boatloads of copies to sneak out the back door.

If we're being fair about the disclosure of print runs, there's another product that's been released for over a month now where every single card is limited to a specific print run -- and that information has still not been posted online.
 
Thanks for the clarification guys. It does seem shadey. But at least give an idea. Nothing wrong with saying that less then xxx copies exist. I would venture a guess and say they have no idea how many of each copy is available.
 
foley2k said:
I just read on their facebook. Someone asked how rare a specific card was. Meaning print run I am assuming.
Uppderdeck's response - "We are not releasing print run information on that card, rather letting the market determine the rarity of those cards."

If im wrong I will admit it and shut my flan hole, but how can the market determine how rare a card is? Isnt that based on how many were made?
Click to expand...

If they do not know how many of each card are printed, then how come the Malkin has been advertised as a 1/1?

What about the 2004-05 UD Legends Classics Signatures XSP, SSP, SPPSPSS ect?

While the specific print runs of each card are not released, they let us know that there are no more than X-Amount of XSP ect.
 
suitman19 said:
Don't slap me... but:

BAP/ITG has also (many times) not released any print run information on cards from their sets. Case in point is older auto releases of BAP Signature, and memorabilia in early releases of BAP Memorabilia. I can also think of instances where a certain players cards are not listed as SP's even though there were more redemptions in the product than were available from BAP/ITG.

The auction market will determine the rarity of a card - just look at some of the SP's in 09/10 UD BAP. As has been noted on these boards a few very common players are going for high prices in relation to their talent level and collectibility.
This is not a pro UD or anti ITG post (DON"T START!).
I am just commenting on the release of print runs - and not on the issue of checklists.

If I were to comment on the issue of checklists that are posted AFTER the release of a product in the marketplace - that was subsequently revised (drastically I may add) - than I would probably get a week long vacation from said forum.

Bruce
Click to expand...

The prices on those cards isn't necessarily a reflection of their actuality scarcity. It's a reflection of their perceived scarcity Say a particular card has 50 copies but is posted as an SP. Say I'm Joe Unscrupulous Employee. I might have 48 copies of said card sitting in my basement - if there's only 2 on eBay and therefore they both sell at a super high rate because of the perception that it's super-short-printed, that doesn't mean the card is actually rare. If I slowly let those cards appear on the market, eventually allowing all 50 cards out, those initial two buyers are going to feel mighty ripped off because they grossly overpaid based on the assumption that there were only very few of the cards out there, when in actuality there are 50.

That's really the essence of the gripe that people have with not announcing the print runs - they don't see the card for a couple weeks, one appears, frenzy ensues. Three months later, all of a sudden everybody's got a copy for sale. As somebody mentioned earlier, that Carey Price Ultimate Signatures was the default redemption replacement for a while, and it was tough to track down initially.

I'm not making a judgment one way or another because I can easily see both sides of the argument - UD is creating greater demand for their product so that more of it gets broken by folks looking to hit the big SP'd auto, while collectors want to know just how rare a card is so that they don't break the bank on the first auction they see when there's a possibility they can get it for cheaper down the road.
 
bergy37 said:
I posed this question to Upper Deck on Facebook

"Chris,
Any compensation planned for those like me who opened multiple cases of BAP based on the checklist originally posted? I opened 5 cases hoping to make a big dent in the Signatures set and sell the muti-auto cards to recoup some of my cost. But I didn't pull a single quad auto or higher nor did I pull any of the now identified short prints. Leaves me feeling kind of short-changed.
Tom"

And received this reply

"Tom,
We will not be compensating customers for the checklist discrepancy. Changes to checklists can and frequently do happen. When realized, they are corrected immediately and we share that information with the public."

Where is the "sorry that happened" or "we'll make sure it doesn't happen again". I understand that changes will happen before release but that was not a preliminary checklist - it was posted after the product was live and not corrected until 2 weeks later. Technically, my cases did have a signature in every pack but a little good will would have been nice. I didn't even pull one of the numerous short prints! My case-busting days may just be over after the 2 cases of The Cup that I already pre-ordered.

I guess this make me a hypocrite but I am still trying to finish the set since I am so close. Here is what I still need if anyone can help:

Rene Bourque Signatures
Paul Stastny Signatures - SP
Ryan Suter Signatures - SP
T.J. Oshie Signatures - SP
Ilya Bryzgalov Signatures - SP - haven't seen a single one yet
Zdeno Chara Signatures - SP - haven't seen a single one yet
Evgeny Malkin Signatures - SP 1/1 - will never happen
Heatley/Thornton/Marleau Triple Signatures
Click to expand...

The upper deck response is simply misleading.
I told upper deck that the 09-10 champs checklist was wrong, and that some cards were missing. Here is the response:

"There were some legal reasons as to why those were not on there. I’ll see if we can’t make another run to get approvals there. Thanks for the message.



Sincerely,"

They have never corrected.
 

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