With that, Canada's group for the Olympics in South Korea is set, they'll be the #1 overall seed in a group with the Czechs, Switzerland and South Korea. The others still need to have the qualifiers in the next 16 months to round out the other groups
Canada's group for 2018 Olympics
- Thread starter Hama
- Start date
Orca Pod
Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
I'm still shaking my head the IIHF/IOC is giving South Korea an automatic berth, host nation or not. If NHL players are in the tournament, have you heard if there's going to be a mercy rule in place? Anyone really looking forward to the Canada/South Korea game?
blade
Verified Trader,
I thought that it was a joke when I saw it.
They didn't do it for Japan in Nagano, or Italy in Turin - so it won't be any different here - regardless, South Korea is ranked 23rd in the world, and is in the same cluster of teams as Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan or Ukraine. South Korea is now in the group just under the main group, just having won promotion a few weeks ago and replacing Ukraine.
Slovenia finished in Sochi in 6th place, but have just been relegated from the main group. They're going to have to go through qualifying just like any team that isn't in the top 8. Even the UK is going to try to qualify for the Olympics.
cygnusx1
Verified Trader,
I think it will be a great experience for them, and hopefully playing against all the NHL stars will inspire them.
I remember being a 13 year old invited to a U-18 Ontario football all-star team. I went to practice and had my *** severely kicked, but I knew then what it would take to get better (though my parents small statures eventually conspired against me anyway)
All I'm saying is don't look at it as a Canada/South Korea game, but moreso as a "South Korean hockey team realizing their dreams" game. I think it will push them in the right direction.
Orca Pod
Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
Here's who South Korea is playing in their 1-A tournament in 2016 and their all time record against those teams:
Austria: 0 W, 0 T, 1 L GF 0, GA 8
Slovenia: 0-0-1, 2 10
Poland: 0-0-2, 1 13
Japan: 0-1-15, 23 150
Italy: 0-0-2, 1 18
Three of their top four leading scorers for the team in the recent tournament they won:
Michael Swift
Mike Testuide
Brock Redunske
Look, I understand the concept of the Olympics. I could argue it has gone away from that concept, but that's an entirely different discussion.
I just look at this and think 'Who the hell can get excited at all for any game involving South Korea at the Olympic hockey tournament if NHL players are there.'
Oh well. I definitely won't go out of my way to watch the inevitable slaughter by Canada.
Austria: 0 W, 0 T, 1 L GF 0, GA 8
Slovenia: 0-0-1, 2 10
Poland: 0-0-2, 1 13
Japan: 0-1-15, 23 150
Italy: 0-0-2, 1 18
Three of their top four leading scorers for the team in the recent tournament they won:
Michael Swift
Mike Testuide
Brock Redunske
Look, I understand the concept of the Olympics. I could argue it has gone away from that concept, but that's an entirely different discussion.
I just look at this and think 'Who the hell can get excited at all for any game involving South Korea at the Olympic hockey tournament if NHL players are there.'
Oh well. I definitely won't go out of my way to watch the inevitable slaughter by Canada.
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
Well then, you're going to miss a hell of a game when those pesky South Korean's beat Canada.....
I get it, you don't like it, but come on, give these guys a break. Not everyone grew up in Canada where it's just a forgone conclusion that you win every hockey tournament and no one can compare to the beast that is Team Canada. So what if these guys are in the Olympics, did you get this upset when Jamaica entered a bobsledding team? It's the Olympics, it's a world event, and I guarantee you at some point in history other countries probably looked at a Canadian team or individual at the Olympics and said "WTF are they doing in this, that would be like us entering a hockey team."
cygnusx1
Verified Trader,
Exactly! You could come in last place but bring so much pride to your country just for making it. My wife is from St. Vincent and the Grenadines. They always try to send someone to the Olympics, but they've never been good enough to win a medal. We should just stop cheering for these losers, right? I mean, why bother?
geschrocks33
Verified Trader,
It's not always about winning, it's about representing your country. I bet they could lose 30-0 against Canada and every person on that team would say going to the Olympics was a great experience.
Representing your country in the Olympics is arguably the greatest honor for an athlete, whether they win Gold, or come in last.
Representing your country in the Olympics is arguably the greatest honor for an athlete, whether they win Gold, or come in last.
will-411
Verified Trader,
Well... except that likely most of those representing South Korea at the Olympics in hockey will not be born and bred South Koreans... they will be Americans, Canadians, etc with some historical birth tie to South Korea through that makes them eligible to play for South Korea.
I do think it is right for a host country to try to be represented in every sport at the Olympics, and if they have to bring in some out of country people to fill out the ranks, no harm, no foul. It's about Nation and sport building in those nations.
I'd probably watch South Korea play just to hear what obscure reference to North American hockey teams they played for Pierre Maguire could come up with.
And, there won't be any NHL'ers going, so who knows what might happen.
Cory
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
Doesn't happen just in the Olympics, we've seen this before especially in hockey. I've seen a bunch of Canadian's playing for other countries in international tournaments, Team Canada didn't invite them so with their citizenship from whatever other country they have, they suit up and play for them. Brett Hull also comes to mind, and recently I remember a player who was born in the U.S. but had dual citizenship because of one of his parents, he chose to play for Canada instead of the U.S.
kmitchel
Upstanding Member,
A few things I want to clear up.
Japan was allowed entry into the 98 Olympics, but they were seeded with some other "weaker" teams and would have had to qualify before they would play the big six. They didn't not and Kazakhstan and Belarus went into the final 8. Belarus went 0-3 and was outscored 4-15. Kazakhstan went 0-3 was was outscored 6-25. So the automatic entry of Japan didn't expose them to the top 6 teams.
Italy did get thrown into the deep end and all things being equal did okay getting thumped by Finland 6-0, Canada 7-2 and losing to the Czechs 4-1 and drawing 3-3 against both the Swiss and Germans.
Jamaica DID qualify by competition standards to go to Calgary - they were not given any sort of bye or auto entry and yes, I (as a Canadian) would question any type of men's soccer birth if Toronto/Montreal was to host the summer Olympics. We're currently ranked 115th in the world. {Granted Olympic soccer U23 isn't the same as World Cup, but Canada isn't world class}
According to wikipedia, the *current* roster for South Korea's hockey team is actually mainly of those born in South Korea with only 3 Canadian born players. Be interesting to see if that changes much by 2018. The IIHF indicates that only 109 male players are registered in their system
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/countries/korea.html
Anyways - Finland, Sweden, Canada, Russia, United States, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Slovakia and the host South Korea are the 9 teams who have qualified already with 3 open spots left. Let's take a look at the remaining 3 groupings that allow teams to qualify.
Three tourneys are being held in Sept 2016 hosted in Belarus, Latvia and Norway where the winners of those tourneys getting spots 9, 10, 11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2018_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_qualification
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/olympics/
The Belarus tourney will be Belarus, Slovenia, Denmark and a qualifier.
The Latvia tourney will be Latvia, Germany, Austria and a qualifier.
The Norway tourney will be Norway, France, Kazakhstan and a qualifier.
As per wiki, as of 2009 - The South Koreans have played Belarus once they losing 12-1, Slovenia once losing 10-2, Denmark losing 4 times outscored 50-4 in those games, Latvia once losing 27-0, Germany never, Austria once losing 8-0, Norway once losing 11-1, France losing four times outscored 60-7, Kazakhstan losing seven times outscored 60-6
That's their record versus teams that might be lucky enough to get space 9-11 in the tourney. They are 0-20 and have been outscored 238-21.
They don't appear to have played any of the big 6 (or 8) [Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech and Switzerland, Slovakia], so I'm guessing that the Czech and Swiss will be in the same boat with basically an expansion team in their pod. (And if the NHL doesn't send it's players, I still expect the European teams to be fairly strong despite NHL players as I expect the KHL and other European leagues to send their players).
Also, it's not like Randy's is the only one to have the same doubts about the host getting an automatic entry. Others have as well including the IOC and IIHF.
And lastly, let's skip the men's tourney for a bit - the women's tourney could be even worse [edit : as it relates to lopsided] - while they [edit: South Korea] have more women registered (177) than men [See link above], historically the groupings in women's hockey are even worse from a [edit: equal] talent level.
With South Korea women hockey having 177 registered members, this a very small group to draw upon in a sport that has been DOMINATED by two teams the last 20 years. Women's hockey existence as an Olympic sport remains in doubt as it's pretty much presumed that it'll be Can/US or US/Can for gold and silver and it's basically a tourney for the bronze.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...1Zmd1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
Women's ice hockey has structured their tourney in such a way that it's unlikely South Korea will have to face Can/US, but even then I do wonder at how well they'll perform facing teams 5-7 ranked in the world.
Since 1990, in the World Championships Canada/US have all 16 golds and all 16 silvers with only 4 countries (Finland 11, Sweden/Russia 2, Swiss 1) picking up bronzes. In the 5 Olympics (since 92), it's Canada with 4-1-0, US with 1-3-1, and Sweden with the Silver in '96. Finland has 2 Bronzes, Sweden with one and the Swiss in 2014. In Olympic play, both non-hockey nations with automatic entries (Japan 6/6 in Nagano '98 and Italy 8/8 in Turin '06) have come in last.
The 4 Nations Cup has similar results with similar North American dominance.
Needless to say, automatic entry for teams that aren't in the top groupings remain questionable in my mind especially if a bunch of North Americans with South Korean ties are flown in [edit : as that isn't nation building to cheer for Canadians 2-3 generations removed from South Korea with no current ties to South Korea]
Japan was allowed entry into the 98 Olympics, but they were seeded with some other "weaker" teams and would have had to qualify before they would play the big six. They didn't not and Kazakhstan and Belarus went into the final 8. Belarus went 0-3 and was outscored 4-15. Kazakhstan went 0-3 was was outscored 6-25. So the automatic entry of Japan didn't expose them to the top 6 teams.
Italy did get thrown into the deep end and all things being equal did okay getting thumped by Finland 6-0, Canada 7-2 and losing to the Czechs 4-1 and drawing 3-3 against both the Swiss and Germans.
Jamaica DID qualify by competition standards to go to Calgary - they were not given any sort of bye or auto entry and yes, I (as a Canadian) would question any type of men's soccer birth if Toronto/Montreal was to host the summer Olympics. We're currently ranked 115th in the world. {Granted Olympic soccer U23 isn't the same as World Cup, but Canada isn't world class}
According to wikipedia, the *current* roster for South Korea's hockey team is actually mainly of those born in South Korea with only 3 Canadian born players. Be interesting to see if that changes much by 2018. The IIHF indicates that only 109 male players are registered in their system
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/countries/korea.html
Anyways - Finland, Sweden, Canada, Russia, United States, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Slovakia and the host South Korea are the 9 teams who have qualified already with 3 open spots left. Let's take a look at the remaining 3 groupings that allow teams to qualify.
Three tourneys are being held in Sept 2016 hosted in Belarus, Latvia and Norway where the winners of those tourneys getting spots 9, 10, 11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2018_Winter_Olympics_–_Men's_qualification
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/olympics/
The Belarus tourney will be Belarus, Slovenia, Denmark and a qualifier.
The Latvia tourney will be Latvia, Germany, Austria and a qualifier.
The Norway tourney will be Norway, France, Kazakhstan and a qualifier.
As per wiki, as of 2009 - The South Koreans have played Belarus once they losing 12-1, Slovenia once losing 10-2, Denmark losing 4 times outscored 50-4 in those games, Latvia once losing 27-0, Germany never, Austria once losing 8-0, Norway once losing 11-1, France losing four times outscored 60-7, Kazakhstan losing seven times outscored 60-6
That's their record versus teams that might be lucky enough to get space 9-11 in the tourney. They are 0-20 and have been outscored 238-21.
They don't appear to have played any of the big 6 (or 8) [Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech and Switzerland, Slovakia], so I'm guessing that the Czech and Swiss will be in the same boat with basically an expansion team in their pod. (And if the NHL doesn't send it's players, I still expect the European teams to be fairly strong despite NHL players as I expect the KHL and other European leagues to send their players).
Also, it's not like Randy's is the only one to have the same doubts about the host getting an automatic entry. Others have as well including the IOC and IIHF.
And lastly, let's skip the men's tourney for a bit - the women's tourney could be even worse [edit : as it relates to lopsided] - while they [edit: South Korea] have more women registered (177) than men [See link above], historically the groupings in women's hockey are even worse from a [edit: equal] talent level.
With South Korea women hockey having 177 registered members, this a very small group to draw upon in a sport that has been DOMINATED by two teams the last 20 years. Women's hockey existence as an Olympic sport remains in doubt as it's pretty much presumed that it'll be Can/US or US/Can for gold and silver and it's basically a tourney for the bronze.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...1Zmd1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
Women's ice hockey has structured their tourney in such a way that it's unlikely South Korea will have to face Can/US, but even then I do wonder at how well they'll perform facing teams 5-7 ranked in the world.
Since 1990, in the World Championships Canada/US have all 16 golds and all 16 silvers with only 4 countries (Finland 11, Sweden/Russia 2, Swiss 1) picking up bronzes. In the 5 Olympics (since 92), it's Canada with 4-1-0, US with 1-3-1, and Sweden with the Silver in '96. Finland has 2 Bronzes, Sweden with one and the Swiss in 2014. In Olympic play, both non-hockey nations with automatic entries (Japan 6/6 in Nagano '98 and Italy 8/8 in Turin '06) have come in last.
The 4 Nations Cup has similar results with similar North American dominance.
Needless to say, automatic entry for teams that aren't in the top groupings remain questionable in my mind especially if a bunch of North Americans with South Korean ties are flown in [edit : as that isn't nation building to cheer for Canadians 2-3 generations removed from South Korea with no current ties to South Korea]
Last edited:
Iceman
Verified Trader ,
If South Korea is going to spend the millions upon millions of dollars to host the Olympics, they damn well better get a berth in the hockey tournament. Who cares if they get punted. I'm sure the locals will be pumped just to be there. The only team that's going to get left out because of this is likely a team that'll get thumped as well.
Ghost
Verified Trader, Formerly: p8030103,
In case anyone cares, two players who have recently chosen Canada over the US are Sean Couturier and Tyler Myers (there are other as well, but I'm tired right now and don't remember lol).
As far as the idea of having the host country in the Olympics, I guess I'm alright with it, but it might be better to find some way to get them to qualify if they're ranked outside the top 25 countries or whatever. Not sure how that could be accomplished, but someone smarter than me could figure that one out.
Craig2
Verified Trader,
Marcus Foligno and Curtis Hamilton are both American-born players who played for Canada in the WJC.
I don't have an issue with players playing for adopted countries, like we saw with Kevin Lalande (Kingston, Ontario) playing goal for Belarus in this year's World Championships. My concern with South Korea is that they're just so lacking in talent that we could be looking at a 15-0 score against Canada...it wouldn't be so bad if we were still sending college kids or National team members, but the NHLers are going to crush them. Hopefully the fans still enjoy it.
