Card Company replacing faked patch?

[hccollector]

I was just wondering if a card company replaced the patch in a card (that has been altered) would it make it legit in your eyes? Or since it has been altered from its original state, its pretty much "altered" for life lol

Case in point....

Toews Altered Cup Auction

What if the seller decided to send it back to UD (If they would do it) and have them insert a patch and send out an certificate of authenticity with it? Maybe they could even get it close to the original...or not, that's in the eye of the beholder

D

 

[GabbyGuy]

Why would the card company replace something that someone wrecked on purpose? Not their fault. Don't know how they can be responsible for that. ???

Plus that extra cost involved is something they wouldn't take on.

--Curt

 

[gomaz]

Why would the card company replace something that someone wrecked on purpose? Not their fault. Don't know how they can be responsible for that. ???

Plus that extra cost involved is something they wouldn't take on.

--Curt

I don't think he is asking for a card company to do anything here, rather it is a hypothetical question one that I think is worthy of discussion.

So....hypothetically speaking, if a card company replaced a fake patch, like the Toews RC above, IMO the card would regain integrity extremely close to its original authenticity. It would be cool if the card company then blogged about it to provide some documented provenance. Even a card sized COA accompanying it would be good (even though I hate those card sized COA's myself). I would welcome it into my PC.

 

[Triple B]

It might be safe to assume that replacement cards would be on hand and the "faked" card would then be destroyed and the replacement take its place. I doubt UD or anyone would go to the trouble of deconstructing the card and rebuilding it again....but since we're pretending...

It would definitely be legit as the card company themselves have repaired the damage done to the card.

 

[wreckless]

legit like repairing your brand new car from the dealer.

 

[plubers]

I would say if the card companies replaced the faked patch with a real game used patch then yes it would be legit. I still say all high end cards should be slabbed. If it's pc you can bust it out but if its for resale then leave it in the slab.

 

[GabbyGuy]

I don't think he is asking for a card company to do anything here, rather it is a hypothetical question one that I think is worthy of discussion.

So....hypothetically speaking, if a card company replaced a fake patch, like the Toews RC above, IMO the card would regain integrity extremely close to its original authenticity. It would be cool if the card company then blogged about it to provide some documented provenance. Even a card sized COA accompanying it would be good (even though I hate those card sized COA's myself). I would welcome it into my PC.

Which is why I answered the way I did. You know Upper Deck would never replace the patch anyway. So hypothetically speaking, this would never happen to begin with.

But if they did, for some reason replace the patch, and you had proof from Upper Deck... then yes, I would say it was legit. But man, would that open up a can of worms. And Kenny would keep doing it even more.

Why doesn't someone prosecute the fake patch people? There is a lot of proof out there. Probably the "Legal $$" involved??

--Curt

 

[re-ac-tor]

The problem would be if the card was a known fake patch and sent back for re-patching, how would anyone know? With all the fake patch databases, as soon as it hit the secondary market everyone would be screaming fake at the top of their lungs as there would be no proof that it was legitimately re-patched.

My best,

Ken

 

[g-force]

Which is why I answered the way I did. You know Upper Deck would never replace the patch anyway. So hypothetically speaking, this would never happen to begin with.

But if they did, for some reason replace the patch, and you had proof from Upper Deck... then yes, I would say it was legit. But man, would that open up a can of worms. And Kenny would keep doing it even more.

Why doesn't someone prosecute the fake patch people? There is a lot of proof out there. Probably the "Legal $$" involved??

--Curt

Curt, as a defence lawyer, I can tell you it would be extremely difficult to get any type of criminal conviction. You would need the company, the person who originally pulled the card out of the pack to testify as to what the original swatch was (if they can remember) and somehow prove who it was that replaced the patch. Most, if not all, defense lawyers could get reasonable doubt on that kind of a case.

 

[crankshaft]

I would say if the card companies replaced the faked patch with a real game used patch then yes it would be legit. I still say all high end cards should be slabbed. If it's pc you can bust it out but if its for resale then leave it in the slab.

If they put an actual game-used patch in it then it would be better than all the others out there since they are event-worn jersey's for Cup RC's (except a select few).

The card company that produces these cards should be working on ways to prevent this sort of thing from happening if anything. Why not pack them out in cases with a tamper proof sticker over the end of it? That would prevent damage to the cards when pulling them out of the packs and when hand packing them and also provide proof that the cards are in factory condition when you purchase one on the secondary market... Something another company started doing a LONG time ago... :crazy::|:crazy:

Rod

 

[GabbyGuy]

Curt, as a defence lawyer, I can tell you it would be extremely difficult to get any type of criminal conviction. You would need the company, the person who originally pulled the card out of the pack to testify as to what the original swatch was (if they can remember) and somehow prove who it was that replaced the patch. Most, if not all, defense lawyers could get reasonable doubt on that kind of a case.

Exactly....very hard to prove who did the actual patch faking...card could be moved to many people. Like you say...reasonable doubt. Sad but true. :foottap:

Thanks g-force

--Curt

 

[cburt]

Why don't card companies (i.e. UD) make gu cards that can't be altered or faked? At least as easy as they are? Why not seal in the patch with some kind of gloss or wax or something transparent so it becomes almost impossible to get out. Then douches like Kenny would have a damned hard time trying to alter gu cards without the altered versions looking totally ridiculous. Sure you couldn't touch the actual patch, but I'd be more confident in gu cards in general if I could say they are almost always legit.

 

[Frendo]

As I has told many times before...
Just stop to making memorbilia cards too thick with very deep windows otherwise it's too easy then. Just make them thinner like ITG does (100pt or 130pt if absolutely necessary then)....almost impossible to faking patch then.

 

[scooby1970]

Considering the price for a tin of cup for example....... The rc patches are mostly from photoshoot jerseys so they are not using game used which saves the card company money. So a simple solution to alter the fake patches is send a COA with the card and a picture on the COA of how the patch looks like..... This way all cup rc come with the card and with a coa of what the patch looks like... Sure its extra steps in preventing patch faking but how many case breakers and hardcore collectors do we need to lose before anything gets done

 

[quincy]

That solution isn't so simple. You're talking about an enormous investment of additional printing and photography. And quite honestly, I don't see it as a balm to soothe these troubles.

Some tech solutions might help - different adhesives primarily.

 

[Fritz]

If the companies started swapping out fake patches for a fair fee I'd bet you'd have people buying up 1c patches, "faking" them and sending them in hoping for a better replacement. Unless they documented the patch details for every card I could see this spelling trouble... but if they documented each patch & serial # then faking wouldn't be such a problem.

 

[Superdoup]

I say company could at least scan the print run of their high end product. a great example for UD would be to scan every Cup rc out of 99 before they go on the market. It will avoid all of this.

 

[Stadium Sports]

Curt, as a defence lawyer, I can tell you it would be extremely difficult to get any type of criminal conviction. You would need the company, the person who originally pulled the card out of the pack to testify as to what the original swatch was (if they can remember) and somehow prove who it was that replaced the patch. Most, if not all, defense lawyers could get reasonable doubt on that kind of a case.

I would ask what exact offence was committed? This is not a piece of art - and counterfeiting is making additional copies and saying it is an original. Is the offences altering the original? You are not falsifying a document as this is not a legal document. Is this a "bunko" offence?

I don't see the prospect of a conviction anywhere and although I am not a lawyer - I don't see RPG to swear an information here in Ontario

 

[lucscaps]

this also leads to someone pulling a one color swatch, doing it themselves and sending it in for a better swatch? Has that been thought of?

 

[will-411]

Scott, don't you think there might be a case here for fraud? The faker is knowingly presenting the card as an original and being compensated as such. You are providing a product not as described to intentionally create an inflated sale value. For someone as notorious as Kenny, I think enough evidence could be brought to make it stick.

Here's one for you - what about taking a faked patch, buying a cheaper card with a legit patch and swapping it out yourself? You can provide whatever provenance you want with the card then (small card sized sheet in the holder explaining the situation and a pic of the two cards before and after).

Cory