Cup Faker Alert: Has Kenny Ao resurfaced (The Infamous Patch Faker)???

I for one am not willing to go back to "old school set building". I am spoiled by cards like this:

MartinBrodeur32.jpg


There are a lot of people to blame here... Ebay protects D-bags, UD isn't taking the initiative (maybe the are, behind closed doors, but I don't see UD going public with a "what do we do about forgery" plea to the public), and I dont think the justice system in this country has enough backbone to put these guys away.
 
gomaz said:
If you want UD to implement these methods, start cutting a cheque to UD each time you buy a card.
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Jeremy, isn't that what we do every time we buy a tin of The Cup? Cut a check to Upper Deck?? The collectors ARE paying big $$ to Upper Deck right now for a premier product that should have some sort of protection from tampering. The scammers aren't going to waste their time on the cheaper products. As long as they know Upper Deck won't do anything, they will keep trying to scam people. Greed fuels everything...unfortunately. And Upper Deck not doing anything because it may cost a few extra $$ per tin, is another form of that GREED...in a business way.

That is why I like slabbed ITG Ultimate cards! They are protected and you know they have real game-used memorabilia in them. And YES, I did buy BAP Ultimate cards when they WERE licensed and cost a lot of $$ per pack....and why I still buy them when they aren't licensed: protection and trust.

My opinion only, of course ...... :)
 
GabbyGuy said:
Jeremy, isn't that what we do every time we buy a tin of The Cup? Cut a check to Upper Deck??
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The cheque I referred to (half-jokingly) is over and above what we pay for packs/boxes/cases. That was the point of my statement.

GabbyGuy said:
The collectors ARE paying big $$ to Upper Deck right now for a premier product that should have some sort of protection from tampering.
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Obviously, collectors aren't paying enough to fund what we are demanding/asking for. If we were, UD would have the capital available to invest.

GabbyGuy said:
And Upper Deck not doing anything because it may cost a few extra $$ per tin, is another form of that GREED...in a business way.
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Not sure where you got your numbers from (few extra $$ per tin), but whatever the amount required is, it will need to be recovered through UD's revenues. That is simple business. If you call it greed, then you may as well call all business greed. And perhaps it is. But it is the way of the world, not just the hobby.

Not that I like it, but reality is that UD is a business run by business people, not collectors.
 
gomaz said:
Not sure where you got your numbers from (few extra $$ per tin), but whatever the amount required is, it will need to be recovered through UD's revenues. That is simple business. If you call it greed, then you may as well call all business greed. And perhaps it is. But it is the way of the world, not just the hobby.

Not that I like it, but reality is that UD is a business run by business people, not collectors.
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The beauty is that McWilliam is wealthy enough to spend nearly $21 million on a 9,455-square-foot apartment in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in New York that comes with a monthly cleaning bill of just over $9,000.

Yep, no money around to help collectors.
 
Busted. And rightfully so.

I'm sure the NHL/PA are thrilled to give such upstanding individuals an exclusive.

(This is in no way a shot at Karvin or Chris Carlin. The garbage seems to be at the very top of this iceberg)
 
The_IceBox said:
The beauty is that McWilliam is wealthy enough to spend nearly $21 million on a 9,455-square-foot apartment in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in New York that comes with a monthly cleaning bill of just over $9,000.

Yep, no money around to help collectors.
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You're not that new are you? That was 3.5 years ago. Things change. Did you hear about that recession thingy?

Richard McWilliam and Upper Deck are separate entities. Richard is not obligated to capitalize the company. No business owner is. Why chase good money after bad?

The problem is that he is shortsighted. Or that he is simply oblivious to this issue. He has bigger items on his plate in terms of losing baseball, basketball, the expiration of the hockey exclusive and the Konami lawsuit. He has had a great run and perhaps he is just letting this thing (UD) die a slow death.

And to top it off, it is apparent that he is not the most ethical businessperson nor does he seem to care about collectors.

I feel bad for shop owners who have no choice but to cut cheques (indirectly) to UD. As a collector, I do have options and have exercised same. There are a tonne of collectors out there who are oblivious to this issue and they are lucky; they likely enjoy the hobby much more than the complainers here on HI do. And as long as they exist, shop owners will continue to order UD product and thereby are forced to support the company they seem to hate.

But hey, shop owners need to feed their family's so it is what it is. And that in itself is admirable.

Now let's open this bubble mailer that just landed on my desk and see what awesome ITG card is inside....
 
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gomaz said:
You're not that new are you? That was 3.5 years ago. Things change. Did you hear about that recession thingy?
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Of course I did. I don't remembering hearing that Mr. McWilliam moved out of that flat, though. I guess the recession doesn't affect everyone equally, does it?

gomaz said:
Richard McWilliam and Upper Deck are separate entities. Richard is not obligated to capitalize the company. No business owner is. Why chase good money after bad?
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Of course he's not -- if he doesn't care about the product, his company's image or his customers and retailers. However, for those of us running businesses where we do care about those things, I guarantee you when an issue such as this arises, we do have to capitalize the company, or we don't have a company any longer.

Heard anything about UD even considering taking an honest look about how fixes can be accomplished either with or without prices increases? If they did, why wouldn't they make the brilliant PR move of, I don't know, telling the rest of us about it?

gomaz said:
I feel bad for shop owners who have no choice but to cut cheques (indirectly) to UD. As a collector, I do have options and have exercised same. There are a tonne of collectors out there who are oblivious to this issue and they are lucky; they likely enjoy the hobby much more than the complainers here on HI do. And as long as they exist, shop owners will continue to order UD product and thereby are forced to support the company they seem to hate.
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We're actively exploring other avenues to take us out of the card business. There comes a point where the low margin, high expenses and utter lack of interest from a manufacturer make carrying a product pointless. We're almost there with UD, and I can only hope other companies are allowed in with licenses before we finally pack it in and move on.
 
I find the discussion about how the company could fight the boom in fake cards interesting. However, it seems we're taking a lot of what Upper Deck says as gospel.

As someone who works in the audit field, we always look for multiple lines of evidence and never take anything at face value. Of course Upper Deck will say it's not feasible if they're not willing to or don't know how to do something.

When any business says that various options cannot be done, that's usually when a newer and more innovative business comes along and puts the older company out of business.
 

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