Do you believe ITG's Game Worn legitimacy claim

[sedinfan]

I voted yes for several reasons... we've heard in the past from respected members on the forums as well as just a few posts above from Triple B attesting to Dr. Price's collection of memorabilia... the fact that ITG acquired Vezina's only goalie pads is well-known, and if they were willing to slice and dice such unique (and expensive) memorabilia I'd have a hard time imagining them purposefully faking something as mundane as the game-used sticks of modern players which are really not that difficult to acquire... also a member either here or on one of the other forums successfully photo matched a Pelle Lindbergh game-worn pad to a couple of ITG cards, as well as other members have sold game-worn memorabilia to ITG and seen it show up in products.

I've seen enough to feel very comfortable that the vast majority of ITG game-worn cards are legit. I may have less confidence that my rare ITG cards are going to stay rare (I'd be more than a little upset if I start to see dups of my numerous 1/1 cards showing up from the usual suspects, thankfully none have so far - knock on wood), but in terms of legitimacy of memorabilia I have no concerns.

 

[FrozenInferno]

I voted yes for several reasons... we've heard in the past from respected members on the forums as well as just a few posts above from Triple B attesting to Dr. Price's collection of memorabilia... the fact that ITG acquired Vezina's only goalie pads is well-known, and if they were willing to slice and dice such unique (and expensive) memorabilia I'd have a hard time imagining them purposefully faking something as mundane as the game-used sticks of modern players which are really not that difficult to acquire... also a member either here or on one of the other forums successfully photo matched a Pelle Lindbergh game-worn pad to a couple of ITG cards, as well as other members have sold game-worn memorabilia to ITG and seen it show up in products.

I've seen enough to feel very comfortable that the vast majority of ITG game-worn cards are legit. I may have less confidence that my rare ITG cards are going to stay rare (I'd be more than a little upset if I start to see dups of my numerous 1/1 cards showing up from the usual suspects, thankfully none have so far - knock on wood), but in terms of legitimacy of memorabilia I have no concerns.

I was the one who matched the Lindbergh pads to a Classic Auctions listing, which was traced back to Lindbergh's family. The consigner had duped the family into selling him a heap of Lindbergh gear for next to nothing, then sold a large lot of it via Classic and made a killing. The blue Sweden jersey ITG used was also part of that lot.

I spoke to Brian Price a couple of years ago about a Lindbergh Flyers jersey that was up for auction on Grey Flannel Auctions I believe. He passed on it because it didn't meet his standards for authenticity. And we're talking an incredibly rare Lindbergh Flyers jersey, in a time when Lindbergh was really popular, and it would have helped boost sales and added a rare gamer to the ITG inventory. His team felt it wasn't solid enough so it was passed on. Other companies might have bought the jersey on the LOA alone just because the paper trail covered their @$$, even if it was questionable.

Like I said before, discussions going on in the other thread don't change my opinion on the quality of ITG's memorabilia. They may have made the occasional mistake or have been duped once or twice (like anybody can be) but overall they are/were the overwhelming leader when it comes to this stuff.

 

[3rdlinewinger]

For those of you that voted no, can you explain why?

 

[bobbyp6565]

Thanks guys for putting my mind at ease lol.

Dr. Price contacted me to see if I'd sell him a couple jerseys for the last ITG Enforcers set, so he was definitely doing his due diligence looking for the real deal - I didn't sell him anything as I couldn't part with what he wanted..........

 

[japhi]

For those of you that voted no, can you explain why?

I believe in trust, but verify. It's one thing to trust that that piece of glove is truly from a player that played 100 years ago, it's another to be able to verify the authenticity of the item.

I've seen to much BS in this hobby to take the card companies at their word. The most famous card in the hobby is trimmed AND slabbed, UD back dooring Griffey's, companies issuing redemption that have a long shot of being made/acquired. I mean look at the other ITG thread, I'm supposed to take at their word that all those swatches are what they claim they are? They were over printing cards/sets, but they would never cross the line into including questionable vintage swatches? The Kane jersey's and Ovechkin stick in the other thread were just mistakes? But that Richard two colour jersey is for sure real? Because they say it is?

 

[FrozenInferno]

I believe in trust, but verify. It's one thing to trust that that piece of glove is truly from a player that played 100 years ago, it's another to be able to verify the authenticity of the item.

I've seen to much BS in this hobby to take the card companies at their word. The most famous card in the hobby is trimmed AND slabbed, UD back dooring Griffey's, companies issuing redemption that have a long shot of being made/acquired. I mean look at the other ITG thread, I'm supposed to take at their word that all those swatches are what they claim they are? They were over printing cards/sets, but they would never cross the line into including questionable vintage swatches? The Kane jersey's and Ovechkin stick in the other thread were just mistakes? But that Richard two colour jersey is for sure real? Because they say it is?

This is probably not the hobby for you.

 

[djsports]

This is probably not the hobby for you.

+1

Couldn't of summed it up better. There used to be an amazing Upper Deck blog that detailed EVERY SINGLE mistake/error/questionable practice that Upper Deck had from 2005-2010. That was until it stopped being updated for some reason......

Recycled material, cards saying that they were game used in an official NHL game and they were not, mismatched swatches, upside down autographs, you name it, it has happened in the hobby.

Panini Flawless "mislabeled' materials
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/panini-200-flawless-football-cards-lacking-game-worn-patch/

Topps Ruth/Gehrig Cut autograph issue:
http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/78795-tale-collector-his-card.html

Upper Deck Fake Cut Autograph issue:
http://joshuaplatt.typepad.com/files/ud-fakes-1.pdf

Panini Jim Thorpe GU issue:
http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=34064

And so on. Back to the original topic, yes I do agree with ITG's GU authenticity claims.

Shawn

 

[japhi]

This is probably not the hobby for you.

Well my collection would disagree. And I think if you want to play in this hobby a healthy sense of skepticism is an asset, not a liability.

I love the hobby but I collect pieces that I can verify are authentic, or at least have a chance at verifying as authentic. I have been and will be burned again by trimmed cards, good looking fakes, etc but I at least have ways of validating if the card in my hand is what I believe it to be. Tell me how you do that with 8 brown leather pieces in a high end ITG card? That's blind trust in the card issuer and it doesn't work for me.

And for the record I'm not saying that most or all of the vintage pieces released over the last 15 years are fake. I have no way of knowing, and neither do any of you, which is my point. There is no way to audit the validity and I just don't feel comfortable taking the card companies at their word. The examples in the post above me don't disprove my point, they are the reason I'm a skeptic. YMMV.

 

[C55]

Well my collection would disagree. And I think if you want to play in this hobby a healthy sense of skepticism is an asset, not a liability.

I love the hobby but I collect pieces that I can verify are authentic, or at least have a chance at verifying as authentic. I have been and will be burned again by trimmed cards, good looking fakes, etc but I at least have ways of validating if the card in my hand is what I believe it to be. Tell me how you do that with 8 brown leather pieces in a high end ITG card? That's blind trust in the card issuer and it doesn't work for me.

And for the record I'm not saying that most or all of the vintage pieces released over the last 15 years are fake. I have no way of knowing, and neither do any of you, which is my point. There is no way to audit the validity and I just don't feel comfortable taking the card companies at their word. The examples in the post above me don't disprove my point, they are the reason I'm a skeptic. YMMV.

Im not as skeptical as you, but your point is well made.

 

[japhi]

+1

Couldn't of summed it up better. There used to be an amazing Upper Deck blog that detailed EVERY SINGLE mistake/error/questionable practice that Upper Deck had from 2005-2010. That was until it stopped being updated for some reason......

Recycled material, cards saying that they were game used in an official NHL game and they were not, mismatched swatches, upside down autographs, you name it, it has happened in the hobby.

Panini Flawless "mislabeled' materials
http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/panini-200-flawless-football-cards-lacking-game-worn-patch/

Shawn

It's fairly obvious to me that Panini pack inserted event used swatches to save some money, called them GU, and the hobby called their BS. If you believe this was a mistake I don't know what to say, this is their flagship release and they tried to push event worn patches through. You mean they didn't know that 200+ swatches were not GU'd...it was a labeling issue? So they actual intent was to stuff 1K boxes with event worn patches? Well that puts my mind at ease.

If we just trusted and never verified this garbage never gets caught.

 

[koondog44]

I guess someone needs to fully explain what ITG's actual claim is. I agree with everything Japhi has said in this thread. I was under the assumption that the ITG "claim" was that everything is 100% legit. Not 99%. Most people in the thread seem to agree that there has been "screw ups", but they still trust ITG 100%. That is a bit confusing. I clicked "no", as I don't believe that ANYONE can be 100% sure of game used equipment...especially vintage. I do feel that the likelihood is extremely high, and that I don't think ITG purposely tried to deceive anyone, but as Japhi says, there are soooo many fakes out there, with fake paperwork, fake stories, fake wear etc.

As an example, and I'm just quickly jotting this down without every specific detail...a collector had a photo matched Gretzky jersey to one of his milestone goals (500 maybe...or season goal record). He has numerous pictures matching puck marks, holes, repairs etc. Anyways, Gretzky himself sees the guys collection and says to the fellow that his father Walter has that particular milestone jersey in his possession. Who do you believe? Gretzky or the collector? The photos seemed to make me believe the collector.

Also, as noted earlier, vintage stuff is getting harder to locate, hense, driving up the price, as well as people insentive to fake items. There's no real reason to fake modern, as teams can produce as many "one game wonders" or photoshoot jerseys as the market needs.

 

[GabbyGuy]

100% legit[/B]. Not 99%. Most people in the thread seem to agree that there has been "screw ups", but they still trust ITG 100%. That is a bit confusing. I clicked "no", as I don't believe that ANYONE can be 100% sure of game used equipment...especially vintage.

Where is this 100% legitimacy claim?

--Curt

 

[99wgretzky99]

LOL if you want "100% guaranteed authentic" then you'd have to enter the "being related to the athlete to know forsure" stage.

 

[djsports]

It's fairly obvious to me that Panini pack inserted event used swatches to save some money, called them GU, and the hobby called their BS. If you believe this was a mistake I don't know what to say, this is their flagship release and they tried to push event worn patches through. You mean they didn't know that 200+ swatches were not GU'd...it was a labeling issue? So they actual intent was to stuff 1K boxes with event worn patches? Well that puts my mind at ease.

If we just trusted and never verified this garbage never gets caught.

That is why the mislabeled was in "". I am looking at a Craig Anderson nets skirt card from SP Game Used. The first line states "You have received a trading card with Craig Anderson Game Used Hockey Memorabilia" Lets be honest, there is a better chance that Ovechkin could of touched that stick by accidentally bumping into another player then Anderson actually using the net skirt from the Heritage classic. I guess he could of tripped over it. At least this card is authenticated by the trust company of Richard McWilliams instead of McWilliams, who was still authenticating cards up to two years after he passed away.

 

[koondog44]

Where is this 100% legitimacy claim?

--Curt

It clearly says "I" was under the assumption. Not anyone else. Me. I mistakingly presumed that ALL material would be game used by the stated person on the card. Other may not have been as naive as ME. The op states "do you believe ITG's legitimacy claim". My first sentence asks exactly what is their claim. I didn't say they had one written anywhere, hense, I asked what is the claim? I didn't throw anybody, or company under the bus, as I believe they are all flawed. I'm sorry you took my post differently than it was intended to be.

 

[Boom Boom]

I trust the legitimacy of ITG memorabilia over Upper Deck any day of the week....