JR
AKA: thecardfarmer, Verified Trader ,
I sure do. So much nice stuff up for sale but can’t even think about bidding. Does anyone else get sketched out from buying from these consignment outfits?
Do you shudder when you see a PWCC Auction?
- Thread starter JR
- Start date
SNobles
Patrick Roy BTP Collector,
I have always avoided them but only because the stuff I wanted I was always able to get somewhere else cheaper. I always felt there was shilling and such but when the other stuff broke I was happy I didn’t deal with them in the past.
So to answer your question, yes I do. The post about the boxes of 05-06 Cup that was posted the other day is a great example of a hard pass for me (financial Inability aside).
So to answer your question, yes I do. The post about the boxes of 05-06 Cup that was posted the other day is a great example of a hard pass for me (financial Inability aside).
Justcards
Verified Trader,
I've learned to stay away. Why they have to make their money and such, with the high rollers they have on their client list almost any card they post will make out level people broke and in the poor house
hduong
Verified Trader,
I've never purchased anything from them and don't think I will anytime soon. Too sketchy in my books.
OilersRule
Verified Trader,
I have purchased a few times over the last year or so for some must have cards, and almost always ended up overpaying (but that's my fault).
And yes every time I see something I kind of want, I see the shipping rates which are abhorrent. Then I watch some of these items and do seem to notice some shill bidding going on, which I then don't end up pulling the trigger.
So I will not be buying from them again, unless it is a whale that I must have.
And yes every time I see something I kind of want, I see the shipping rates which are abhorrent. Then I watch some of these items and do seem to notice some shill bidding going on, which I then don't end up pulling the trigger.
So I will not be buying from them again, unless it is a whale that I must have.
porschegt3
Verified Trader
People mention words: shills, shady and sketchy about PWCC. Anyone have actual proof instead of conjecture from analyzing bids, bidders and actions with subjective theories? Haven't read one case made without reasonable doubt.
I have sent a few packages to PWCC. They scan the cards very well, list it very well (also with an opportunity for the seller to check and suggest edits before the auction goes live), make awesome value-adding videos for some cards. From the disposition side, I felt like they added value and were good to deal with. I was always paid on time and felt best pricing was achieved in a fair auction.
I am used to paying up for what I want from PWCC. I have good conviction that they will work it out if the card had anything questionable (hasn't happened to me yet). I have gotten one great deal I always remembered, but mostly have paid up. I like buying from them because of reputation, customer service, great packaging/shipping and their Vault service.
For some cards people has suggested were shilled, I have won and paid for them. Shilled or not, I am comfortable paying what I offer. Sometimes I snipe last minute and other times I want to stay in the lead from the get go.
mortuus
New Member, Must Send First!
they have hired accounts that only shill their auctions for years... this is a fact.... they suck but since they give ebay tons of money in terms of fees they can continue this greedy business practice.
steveottfan
Verified Trader,
Is it though? Can anyone actually prove it?
I'm not defending them, but I still haven't see the hard evidence, just a ton of accusatory claims and 'evidence' that could be taken into question with logical explanations. Have I seen some fishy auctions? Absolutely! But if you take a look at the majority of their completed auctions, the prices are pretty normal.
mortuus
New Member, Must Send First!
No but during all years i heard so much negative talk its hard to deny they have dirty work behind their high sales that i stayed away from them. well maybe not all auctions shilled but those with hot cards for sure i believe they were..
Kehfee
Verified Trader
PWCC has been in hot water.
You can google Net54 and PWCC (a long run message forum that focuses on vintage baseball cards)
PWCC has posted on that board as well to defend their position. I do believe I remember a thread about people mad about shilling with them, but I did not see it on first google. Lots of fun stuff regarding Gary Moser (card doctor) using them to push altered cards.
There was/is? an FBI investigation to I believe.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...t-fraud-their-hobby-now-fbi-is-investigating/
https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=272274 (I posted a random thread so people could find the site if they were inclined. There are tons of threads of people questions items they auction though)
You can google Net54 and PWCC (a long run message forum that focuses on vintage baseball cards)
PWCC has posted on that board as well to defend their position. I do believe I remember a thread about people mad about shilling with them, but I did not see it on first google. Lots of fun stuff regarding Gary Moser (card doctor) using them to push altered cards.
There was/is? an FBI investigation to I believe.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...t-fraud-their-hobby-now-fbi-is-investigating/
https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=272274 (I posted a random thread so people could find the site if they were inclined. There are tons of threads of people questions items they auction though)
Triple B
Verified Trader,
porschegt3
Verified Trader
Thanks. These were good reads.
So the Washington Post article has Brent from PWCC admit to knowing selling fake patches. Unfortunately, still - this is inconclusive to me about PWCC being a company intentionally engaging in unethical activities.
There must be a time when sellers, including PWCC, have cards change hands so much that there may be some patch altering going on. No system will be 100% foolproof. There is reasonable probability that PWCC found out late, took action and tried to make things right with not engaging with said consignor and taking money from PWCC to right the wrongs from unsuspecting customers. On the other hand, it may be the case that people assume consignor and auction house be in it together. This is a serious claim. I like to believe innocent until proven guilty. It is so easy to throw accusations.
The card trimming one I have seen before. As PSA has so many cards to grade and it is their job to ensure consistent standards across its grading team, the grading team are all mortals.
What I would be curious to know is if larger, more iconic cards in the hobby need a higher-level approval for the grade to be released? It makes sense to me as more eyes are on the card and thus more reputation risk if wrong. However, I don't know. Jeremy - any insight you can add here from your network?
In the end, you need to specialize what you look at and do your own diligence. Yes, buyer beware.
porschegt3
Verified Trader
I don't know this card, but evidence looks convincing here for PWCC to have sold a card and then a trimmed version of it subsequently (I see a spot on the back that looks identical for both graded copies, so feel some reasonable basis that this is the same card, but I don't know this card and possible systematic marks/printing, etc).
Again, this is one example. If it was PWCC or another auction house doing their amount of volume, I bet this is only a matter of time to occur. Human error. Question really is if this is done systematically, with knowledge prior to listing or possible deeper collusion to be proved and very importantly, at what frequency? Not sure what a definitive conclusion would even look like.
That said, I don't know this card in the link, but $-wise, it looks to be a sweet spot for scammers. $350 to buy, break and fake for possibly scamming $1600,... either lose nearly $350 or gain $1250 (pre transaction costs) can only guess is the right risk/reward for scammers.
Kehfee
Verified Trader
Yeah the big cosigners move a lot of product and I wouldn't say they can be experts on all the stuff they move. (Fake patches). Short of someone leaking emails of them knowing and selling altered cards and fraudulent patches, I think there can be some leeway for them on that front.
What originally got the Net54 board going was they felt they had notified PWCC about Moser and doctored cards, and that PWCC was slow to acknowledge and act upon. When the FBI gets involved though. I think you have to take notice.
Net54 board did have a big thread (didn't check to see if it was still being updated) that did awesome detective work on big named vintage cards that appeared to be doctored and reslabbed (with scans) and how these seem to get auctioned through certain big names.
Not to make this thread even bigger, but PSA has just too much of a history with nonsense and incompetence around altered cards being slabbed for me to just take their word that they care about it. They've done enough that I think the hobby has enough evidence to completely turn on them if it wasn't for the sheer amount of money involved in high-end vintage graded cards.
Triple B
Verified Trader,
Their ties to Gary Moser is what has them in a damning spot.
WatchMyBreaks
Registered Trader,
I've actually found some PWCC steals for the right players. If its a player that doesn't have mainstream(All 4 sport) appeal they can fly under the radar. If you're looking for Crosby, Gretzky or McDavid good luck.
weasel-king
Registered Trader,
I have won many items from PWCC and Probstein, both huge consigners. I don't buy vintage or graded, so I don't have to worry about those. I almost exclusively snipe, and you know what? If I set a snipe at $30 and I win at $29.85, so what? I was willing to pay $30 for it so the sniping won.
I get it that there is probably shilling going on, but if I was willing to bid $30 and won, the system is working.
I get it that there is probably shilling going on, but if I was willing to bid $30 and won, the system is working.
TBstanleycup04
Verified Trader,
TBstanleycup04
Verified Trader,
Hopefully they sent you the Vaseline jar with the purchase that you made..
Wow someone who doesn't mind getting screwed. Crazy..
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rangers6
Verified Trader,
And this is why I don't believe in the "grading system" as much as others anymore
I ONLY grade valuable cards, not this bullcrap of grading every Prizm basketball base card then thinking they are worth 200.00.........PURE GARBAGE.
A polished turd....is still a turd....I don't care how smooth it is, its a turd.
I ONLY grade valuable cards, not this bullcrap of grading every Prizm basketball base card then thinking they are worth 200.00.........PURE GARBAGE.
A polished turd....is still a turd....I don't care how smooth it is, its a turd.
