Do you shudder when you see a PWCC Auction?

I'm not deep into details here, but can you explain why PWCC is guilty if they sell wrong PSA items? I guess that should be a question to PSA first? Just imagine Christie's auctions house will be entirely banned just because they sold some officially licensed/confirmed (by world wide known and accetptable agency like PSA) painting of Leonardo, but then licensor became part of some investigation for fake licensing. In current circumstances they just would need to say excuse, stop dealing with PSA cards till everyting is clear, but they shouldn't be considered as a "part of a dark side plan"?
 
FrozenInferno said:
He gets screwed by winning the auction at the price he was willing to pay? What are you talking about?
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Geezz.. Guess i have to spell it out for YOU.
He gets screwed if they shill by having to pay more than he should have if they
had NOT shill bid.
whether he wins the auction or not has nothing to do with it.. they're still driving up the price !
So yes.. He's getting screwed.
 
TBstanleycup04 said:
Geezz.. Guess i have to spell it out for YOU.
He gets screwed if they shill by having to pay more than he should have if they
had NOT shill bid.
whether he wins the auction or not has nothing to do with it.. they're still driving up the price !
So yes.. He's getting screwed.
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A) He sets a snipe that goes in at the last second. How are they supposed to know what his max is so they can push it right up to the very edge of his maximum? It's impossible.

B) They're not shilling every single auction, much less a $30 card, and you can't prove that they do.

C) You can win or lose any auction from any seller on eBay by a razor thin margin and it doesn't mean there's anything nefarious behind it, or that you have to win without it ever getting close to your max bid or else something shady is going on.

The tin foil hat is on a little too tight I think. Between this and the COMC tax thread it seems like everything is a conspiracy and everyone is out to get everybody all the time. Must be a stressful way to live

:peace:
 
Wasnt there a post about a fake patch that someone on here brought to their attention? And they refused to take it down? Might’ve been on another board
 
nybravest said:
Wasnt there a post about a fake patch that someone on here brought to their attention? And they refused to take it down? Might’ve been on another board
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They’ve taken down every one I’ve ever sent them.
 
Well they are on the wrong end of an FBI investigation and had to hire El Chapo’s lawyer to represent them. That same lawyer has years of posts calling Brent’s business practices into question. They is endless evidence that they have enabled card doctors, oversold/ pumped cards they would have known are altered.

But in the end none of this will matter because the big fish in the hobby will always want the best stuff. Case in point, there is a big buyer on another forum that was talked by Brent into a few cards that Brent had to known were trimmed. This guy still buys from PWCC because its all about having that top grade. The stuff he posts in some case are comically short in thr holder but Pop 1 baby.

This hobby has always been polluted with bad actors. The most famous card in the hobby is known trimmed - revealed to be trimmed under oath ffs - and it still sits in the same slab/grade. PSA card #1 is altered and it just goes on from there.

So ya, I think PWCC is a joke and wouldn’t spend a dime there. Sold all HOF RC registry set when I realized there were levels to high grade collecting - we aren’t all playing by the same rules. Maybe one day I will spend 5k on the proper equipment and start making my own dimes. Cause that is where most of the recent high end is coming from.
 
Ok, so at what point do cards listed on PWCC and Probstein123 start selling for less? You would think by now they would have very few items for sale. Is the hobby too large that this knowledge to us on forums doesn’t reach the water cooler?
 
nybravest said:
Wasnt there a post about a fake patch that someone on here brought to their attention? And they refused to take it down? Might’ve been on another board
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They have taken down most recently a listing after I sent them proof of forgery. Most recent one was a fake 05-06 Cup Crosby 3clr ARP #/99.
 
porschegt3 said:
Thanks. These were good reads.

So the Washington Post article has Brent from PWCC admit to knowing selling fake patches. Unfortunately, still - this is inconclusive to me about PWCC being a company intentionally engaging in unethical activities.

There must be a time when sellers, including PWCC, have cards change hands so much that there may be some patch altering going on. No system will be 100% foolproof. There is reasonable probability that PWCC found out late, took action and tried to make things right with not engaging with said consignor and taking money from PWCC to right the wrongs from unsuspecting customers. On the other hand, it may be the case that people assume consignor and auction house be in it together. This is a serious claim. I like to believe innocent until proven guilty. It is so easy to throw accusations.

The card trimming one I have seen before. As PSA has so many cards to grade and it is their job to ensure consistent standards across its grading team, the grading team are all mortals.

What I would be curious to know is if larger, more iconic cards in the hobby need a higher-level approval for the grade to be released? It makes sense to me as more eyes are on the card and thus more reputation risk if wrong. However, I don't know. Jeremy - any insight you can add here from your network?

In the end, you need to specialize what you look at and do your own diligence. Yes, buyer beware.
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I interviewed Beckett's senior grader David Poole at the Virtual Expo and he confirmed that all Black Labels had multiple eyes on them. I don't recall if we discussed regular label 10's or 52 Mantle type stuff. But I am inviting him on to Sports Cards Live so watch for that we can ask him.
 
nybravest said:
Wasnt there a post about a fake patch that someone on here brought to their attention? And they refused to take it down? Might’ve been on another board
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I forget which card it was but if it's the same post you're referring to from about a month ago, I sent PWCC an imagine of the original card and they took it down the next day.
 
I buy from them occasionally because the vintage PSA I am looking for rarely comes up anywhere else. I pay what I am willing to pay based on my knowledge of population and past sales. In this hobby you need to "make peace" with your price expectations and the reality of what people ask and others are willing to pay. There is no doubt that cards sell for more there, often I cannot believe the prices.

It worries me that graded cards are involved. You would think that with today's technology the very least they can do is validate that cards have not been trimmed ... they can measure the card to amazing accuracy. And if it is a product that has variations in size... it's a deduction to be off the accepted size. No different from other production variations like off center.

As for people getting taken advantage of, and people dealing with shady characters, unfortunately it is and always will be part of the hobby. Thanks to those watchdogs who report fakes and doctored card all the power to you!
 
gomaz said:
For a patch like that from a player like that, I don't think its insane at all. At $2K I may agree with the insanity assessment. :laugh:
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Jer, do you have a pic of that one that was similar to this that you sold to the Prime Colors Collector from Calgary? I remember seeing that when you guys did the deal and almost started crying it was so tight. Do you think it’s the same one?
 
JR said:
Jer, do you have a pic of that one that was similar to this that you sold to the Prime Colors Collector from Calgary? I remember seeing that when you guys did the deal and almost started crying it was so tight. Do you think it’s the same one?
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It looks an awful lot like the one I had and moved locally (can't find a pic of it) but I can't see him moving that card so this must be another one which does potentially raise questions.
 
gomaz said:
For a patch like that from a player like that, I don't think its insane at all. At $2K I may agree with the insanity assessment. :laugh:
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Ended at $1625, which is about $1300 more than I've paid for any card in my set. It's a beauty patch, but just based on prior purchases I feel like it would have gone for quite a bit less from any other seller.
 
cygnusx1 said:
Ended at $1625, which is about $1300 more than I've paid for any card in my set. It's a beauty patch, but just based on prior purchases I feel like it would have gone for quite a bit less from any other seller.
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You may be right, impossible to know for sure. I think the card deserves the value. It's the nicest Prime colors I've seen and I've brokered around 300 of them personally, one of which was very similar, or this exact one.

In any event, nice to see the card and a hockey card get this level of respect.
 
I noticed something earlier while trying to get a feel for what graded Giacomin stuff goes for. Two PSA 8s sold on the same day. One for around $300, the other for $600. Anyone have any idea how that happens? PWCC sold one of them.
 


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