Goldin Auctions - Sidney Crosby Young Guns BGS 10 Black Label (Pop 2)

Bidding remains pretty quiet on this card so far. Does anybody even know it's up for sale? lol. It hasn't been marketed by Goldin at all as far as I can tell. I only stumbled upon it by scrolling through dozens and dozens of lots on my own. I know hockey isn't their biggest cash cow but you'd think this would be worth at least tweeting about or something.
 
FrozenInferno said:
Bidding remains pretty quiet on this card so far. Does anybody even know it's up for sale? lol. It hasn't been marketed by Goldin at all as far as I can tell. I only stumbled upon it by scrolling through dozens and dozens of lots on my own. I know hockey isn't their biggest cash cow but you'd think this would be worth at least tweeting about or something.
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Goldin Auctions just Retweeted my tweet I just sent out. So I guess that's... something?

https://twitter.com/CenterIceCC/status/1303492626835025922
 
PenguinsChronicles said:
The Registered mark is not centered in the lower right hand corner of the back next to the hologram.

No way that's a Pristine card.
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I just looked at twenty different copies on eBay that had pictures of the back. They are all like that. Disagreeing with a design element is not just cause for a statement that this is no way a pristine card.
 
gomaz said:
I just looked at twenty different copies on eBay that had pictures of the back. They are all like that. Disagreeing with a design element is not just cause for a statement that this is no way a pristine card.
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They aren't all like that. The Registered mark placement is unique compared to the placement of the hologram.

All five of the images below are from Crosby Young Guns PSA 10's or BGS 9.5's with the far right image showing near perfect centering compared to the diagonal hologram.

The Goldin Auctions Crosby - being deemed "Pristine" - in my opinion, is flawed due to this placement issue and should not draw a premium.

One of the things that is often overlooked on Upper Deck Young Guns and modern cards in general is the 5th part of grading...Printing/Placement.
 

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A better image of the centered Registered mark compared to the hologram.

Same thing applies to the 1985-86 Mario Lemieux O-Pee-Chee. There are minor printing flaws that, in my opinion, differentiate some exemplars between each other.

Notice how the yellow of the triangle bleeds into the glove and beak in different areas on these three PSA 10 / BGS 10 examples. Some are worse than others, but in order to draw the "Pristine" designation, there should not be any printing flaws.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Example 3.
 

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PenguinsChronicles said:
Same thing applies to the 1985-86 Mario Lemieux O-Pee-Chee. There are minor printing flaws that, in my opinion, differentiate some exemplars between each other.

Notice how the yellow of the triangle bleeds into the glove and beak in different areas on these three PSA 10 / BGS 10 examples. Some are worse than others, but in order to draw the "Pristine" designation, there should not be any printing flaws.
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I've always been this way about buying a Gretzky RC. If that Oil Drop on the logo on the front isn't centered, I don't want it.
 
PenguinsChronicles said:
They aren't all like that. The Registered mark placement is unique compared to the placement of the hologram.

All five of the images below are from Crosby Young Guns PSA 10's or BGS 9.5's with the far right image showing near perfect centering compared to the diagonal hologram.

The Goldin Auctions Crosby - being deemed "Pristine" - in my opinion, is flawed due to this placement issue and should not draw a premium.

One of the things that is often overlooked on Upper Deck Young Guns and modern cards in general is the 5th part of grading...Printing/Placement.
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Appreciate the detail and examples provided but this will be one of those agree to disagree situations.

I just don't see how the placement of the registered mark when off by micromillimeters on the reverse effects the centering. It could be that the hologram was place incorrectly by a hair. But even a pristine grade has some small tolerance, especially on the reverse.

I do however agree with your Penguins example which is caused by the same thing as the oil drop on the Gretzky RC as the registration of the printing plates causes the overlap. You notice this on Yzerman rookies too where there the black border lines don't line up perfectly with the color plates which effect eye appeal.

But the registered mark....wouldn't stop me from paying a premium as long as the centering of the card itself is within the parameters of a 10 grade as eye appeal is not at all effected, at least in my opinion.
 
Triple B said:
I've always been this way about buying a Gretzky RC. If that Oil Drop on the logo on the front isn't centered, I don't want it.
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It is so hard to find a Gretzky rookie with a perfect placed oil drop. Many come close but that perfect one is elusive. Such a fun hobby!
 
gomaz said:
Appreciate the detail and examples provided but this will be one of those agree to disagree situations.

I just don't see how the placement of the registered mark when off by micromillimeters on the reverse effects the centering. It could be that the hologram was place incorrectly by a hair. But even a pristine grade has some small tolerance, especially on the reverse.

I do however agree with your Penguins example which is caused by the same thing as the oil drop on the Gretzky RC as the registration of the printing plates causes the overlap. You notice this on Yzerman rookies too where there the black border lines don't line up perfectly with the color plates which effect eye appeal.

But the registered mark....wouldn't stop me from paying a premium as long as the centering of the card itself is within the parameters of a 10 grade as eye appeal is not at all effected, at least in my opinion.
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The registered mark/hologram being misplaced doesn’t effect centering, but to receive an all 10 sub BGS 10 Pristine which could fetch 30-40X what a BGS 9.5 would fetch, the entire card better be flawless, even the printing.

I’ve seen numerous Young Guns of the same grade sell for a premium because of the most subtle differences.
 
Something that tiny, on the BACK of the card, is not anything I'd ever notice or care about honestly. It doesn't get any minor a detail than that.
 
gomaz said:
I wouldn’t, for the placement of the R off by a hair. I wouldn’t even care for $1M.

I think it ended at $30K + BP so $36K USD. A bargain relatively speaking.
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A "Pristine" card to me should be without flaw. This card has a printing flaw. Although minor, the card is not "without flaw" or Pristine.

Classic example of someone buying the label, not the card.

Jeremy,

I didn't make a single slanderous statement about you and I'm not sure why you're being so aggressive toward me on this agree to disagree issue. I was merely referring to the price the auction brought vs. what I view the card itself to be as the classic example of someone (whoever that person may be) buying the label versus the card itself.

I don't see the card as Pristine.

You do. That's fine.

You took no exception to someone earlier in this thread challenging the card's Pristine label:

hduong said:
$25,000. Card doesn't look like a Black Label 10 to me though. The edges look less than perfect.
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I'm not sure why you've decided to be so heavy handed with me and not someone else on disagreeing with the card's assessment as "Pristine".

PSA allows for print defects stating: "A Gem Mint 10 card must be free of any staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection."

A quick search of BGS' site didn't render any definitive standards regarding print defects and how it relates to a 9.5 vs. 10.

Obviously a BGS Black Label is much more difficult to attain than a PSA 10.

For a modern card to be labeled an extremely difficult "Pristine" BGS 10, I feel that this card misses the mark.

Nothing about what I said is slanderous by damaging you or anyone else's reputation.

My response about details was to Triple B, not you.

A statement that some people pay attention to every detail on a card - even the most minute details - especially when spending five figures on them - and others don't is not saying that you personally are ignoring details.

You weight some details differently than me. There's nothing wrong with that.

My comment about someone buying the card due to the label rather than the most minute details was a general statement about how people in the hobby collect and wasn't about you specifically, unless you bought the card.
 
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Triple B said:
I've always been this way about buying a Gretzky RC. If that Oil Drop on the logo on the front isn't centered, I don't want it.
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Exactly. The devil is in the details. Some pay attention to them, others do not.

odjickfan said:
Honestly, when I see the difference of market value between a black and a gold label on a card like this, some questions are coming to my mind. Would someone submitting huge amounts of cards or knowing people inside grading companies get better grades?
There's so much strange stuff happening with grading lately, trimming, resubmission of cards, .... it's harder and harder for me to keep faith in the process.
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Definitely is harder to have faith in the whole process. Sometimes the "trust" in a grading company comes from the grade that you get when submitting. If you don't get the grade you want, crack it out and resubmit until you get the grade you want. I've never submitted a card for grading, but have purchased quite a few after they've been slabbed. The crack and resubmit mindset skews population reports as well with no way to know what the true pop is.

It's so important to handle examples of certain cards, look and compare differences in graded cards and make a decision about the card itself AND the grade assigned.

Look at the 2006 Evgeni Malkin Young Guns. The foil on the front is very often off center top to bottom or left to right on many PSA 10's.

I place a premium on those versions that have outstanding centering within the 10 category.
 
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PenguinsChronicles said:
Exactly. The devil is in the details. Some pay attention to them, others do not.
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PenguinsChronicles said:
A "Pristine" card to me should be without flaw. This card has a printing flaw. Although minor, the card is not "without flaw" or Pristine.

Classic example of someone buying the label, not the card.
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I do not appreciate your passive aggressiveness and if you want to challenge my approach and slander me as a buyer of a holder versus a card, perhaps listen to what I say and there is a ton of what I say on my show and if you think I don't notice the details, watch the last 10 minutes of the Eric Norton episode and not make assumptions about my hobby approach based on the placement of an R being off by a hair and how I choose to feel about it.

Condition is of utmost importance. But there is a difference in importance between the placement of the oildrop on the Gretzky and the R on the back of the Crosby Young Guns. Read the grading criteria that the TPG's follow. The TPG's treat the different grading criteria with different weights, as do I and we are all entitled to choose which condition factors are higher in importance to us. For me, the placement of the R is of close-to-zero importance, especially when it did not also result in any registration, design or eye appeal flaws. It is perhaps the lowest factor on the whole scale when assessing the condition of a Young Guns card. Perhaps you find the placement of the R to be more important than some other flaw, that is fine, but please do not go all high and mighty on me, and slander me in the always annoying passive aggressive manner in which you did.
 
PenguinsChronicles said:
Jeremy,

I didn't make a single slanderous statement about you and I'm not sure why you're being so aggressive toward me on this agree to disagree issue. I was merely referring to the price the auction brought vs. what I view the card itself to be as the classic example of someone (whoever that person may be) buying the label versus the card itself.

I don't see the card as Pristine.

You do. That's fine.

You took no exception to someone earlier in this thread challenging the card's Pristine label:



I'm not sure why you've decided to be so heavy handed with me and not someone else on disagreeing with the card's assessment as "Pristine".

PSA allows for print defects stating: "A Gem Mint 10 card must be free of any staining of any kind, but an allowance may be made for a slight printing imperfection."

A quick search of BGS' site didn't render any definitive standards regarding print defects and how it relates to a 9.5 vs. 10.

Obviously a BGS Black Label is much more difficult to attain than a PSA 10.

For a modern card to be labeled an extremely difficult "Pristine" BGS 10, I feel that this card misses the mark.
Click to expand...

Casey,

You slandered my approach in a very passive aggressive manner when you said:

PenguinsChronicles said:
Some pay attention to them, others do not.
Click to expand...

PenguinsChronicles said:
Classic example of someone buying the label, not the card.
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This was an agree to disagree situation until you poked at my approach in the annoying manner in which you did.

And yes, I consider it slander and passive aggressiveness as your comments above were in response to my posts.

I was not defending BGS's assessment in any way, I was simply saying that I am not so particular about the placement of the R being off by a hair as you are. So why would I comment at all on Hien's post about the edges? Do you really not see the difference or see how I could consider your posts and pokes at me?

What I am starting to see that you do not read every word in a post and that you make some broad assumptions about things that do not relate to each other.
 
Honestly, when I see the difference of market value between a black and a gold label on a card like this, some questions are coming to my mind. Would someone submitting huge amounts of cards or knowing people inside grading companies get better grades?
There's so much strange stuff happening with grading lately, trimming, resubmission of cards, .... it's harder and harder for me to keep faith in the process.
 

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