Head Shots

Good points, a 2 minute minor may help but it may also shy the players away from making that big game changing open ice hit to the body that we all love ;)

I'm not sure what Guy is talking about, we are all tought from little squirts that you can feel the puck on your stick but you cant feel where the puck is going to go next, eyes up and looking around you! All the greats of the game stickhandle with their heads up!

I'm still for keep your head up!


leafschik1967 said:
So, in the same way that players can't be expected to change their minds and not deliver a hit with the speed of the game, an official is expected to judge something much more nebulous like 'intent' at the same speed? I'll believe it when I see it.

Even if intent can be accurately judged, just because your intent isn't to create contact (you can turn to better protect the puck, or to reverse it) doesn't mean your intent isn't to draw a penalty. Its a dumb play to turn your back whether you are trying to draw a penalty or not. The NHL has recognized that it makes players vulnerable to injuries and has brought penalties into play to deal with it.

Why can't the same penalties be brought in for this? An unintentional hit to the head? 2 minute minor. Just like an unintentional high stick. Even with the devastating outcome of this hit, I don't think Weight's intention was to hurt. I think a 2 minute minor would be the right call for this hit. It was a confluence of circumstances. An unintentional head shot, as it were.

As far as having one's head up, Guy Carbonneau said: ""I hear people say (Sutter's) head was down; he didn't have the puck, I don't know if you guys play hockey, but it's very hard to play hockey without putting your head down at one point, because usually the puck is on the ice."

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/sports/story.html?id=1d318140-89ff-469d-b00c-90fe9278a218
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It sure would be nice if we could hear from someone on HI who actually has received a blow to the head. Be it a positive or negative opinion. For that matter, someone who has given a blow to the head as well.

I like the idea of penalizing blows to the head. I don't think it will cause players to shy away from physical contact. They always find a way to make the most of the rules...lol.
 
As far as having one's head up, Guy Carbonneau said: ""I hear people say (Sutter's) head was down; he didn't have the puck, I don't know if you guys play hockey, but it's very hard to play hockey without putting your head down at one point, because usually the puck is on the ice."
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I agree with him that yes there are times when you need to look down at the puck and you will never always have your head up, but there are times when you should not have your head down, like cutting across the middle, or in the neutral zone where you are supposed to gain speed. Once you have put the puck by Weight, then take a glance down and make sure you ahve good control.

As far as the 2 minute minor goes, you are still penalizing a good hockey play. Physical sports will have injuries, that is just the way it is. Players know the risks of playing sports and having your head down comes with a risk.
If you can cut out the hits mentioned above, the ones that are intentional or cheap shots, I don't think we would be having this discussion about head hits. The devastating but clean hit doesn't happen all that often, but now when it does because there are guys that are doing it to hurt people, people group all the hits together under "head shots".
 
tealfan said:
It sure would be nice if we could hear from someone on HI who actually has received a blow to the head. Be it a positive or negative opinion. For that matter, someone who has given a blow to the head as well.

I like the idea of penalizing blows to the head. I don't think it will cause players to shy away from physical contact. They always find a way to make the most of the rules...lol.
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One of the first years I played contact hockey, I broke out of the zone early and got a suicide pass. I was looking behind be and when I looked back up there was their big dman. I basically crawled form the far side of the ice to the bench, and was diagnosed with whiplash by our trainer. Later a minor concussion by the doctor and had to be woke up a few times during the night.
I don't blame the guy for hitting me that was just the way it was, he stopped me like he was supposed to.
As far as hitting someone, sure I did but I only remember the hit I took. Maybe because of the hit I took. haha
 
If we start giving penalties for hits to the head, intentional or not, the league will turn into a joke. May as well take all the equipment off while we're at it. I am all for calling penalties when intent to injure is obvious. The Weight hit was not even close to that. He finished his check on a guy who ducked down and stuck his head out. Why should he be penalized for another player's stupid move??? If we do this, all players will simply duck down when a hit is coming just to draw a penalty. I'm with the "Keep your head up" opinion but I'd be happy to see MAJOR penalties and long suspensions for any type of head shot that is deemed an intent to injure
 
gamebreakers said:
If we start giving penalties for hits to the head, intentional or not, the league will turn into a joke. May as well take all the equipment off while we're at it. I am all for calling penalties when intent to injure is obvious. The Weight hit was not even close to that. He finished his check on a guy who ducked down and stuck his head out. Why should he be penalized for another player's stupid move??? If we do this, all players will simply duck down when a hit is coming just to draw a penalty. I'm with the "Keep your head up" opinion but I'd be happy to see MAJOR penalties and long suspensions for any type of head shot that is deemed an intent to injure
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I highly doubt that many players (especially knowing the potential consequences) are going to duck down to take a head shot to draw a penalty and potentially put their game/season/career on the line.

Darren
 
dahabsfan said:
I highly doubt that many players (especially knowing the potential consequences) are going to duck down to take a head shot to draw a penalty and potentially put their game/season/career on the line.

Darren
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Why not? If the player knows a check to his head is coming he can easily protect himself from any kind of damage just like the ones who turn their back to draw penalties do. They brace themselves before the hit comes. I'm not talking about a guy who's about to get demolished would do it but anyone who sees a guy gliding to finish his check could easily duck down, take the hit to the back of his helmet with no damage whatsoever and a penalty called. If the NHL comes up with this penalty for hits to the head, the game will change drastically
 
gamebreakers said:
Why not? If the player knows a check to his head is coming he can easily protect himself from any kind of damage just like the ones who turn their back to draw penalties do. They brace themselves before the hit comes. I'm not talking about a guy who's about to get demolished would do it but anyone who sees a guy gliding to finish his check could easily duck down, take the hit to the back of his helmet with no damage whatsoever and a penalty called. If the NHL comes up with this penalty for hits to the head, the game will change drastically
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Bracing for a body check is one thing, there's very little you can do to protect against a head shot. As for getting hit in the back of the helmet - almost every head injury occurs with the helmet on. They aren't nearly as protective as people think they are - the injuries stem from the forces exerted inside the helmet moreso than from the actual point of impact. The protection afforded is more against errant sticks, skates, pucks ,cuts and the likes. The head shot rule works at other levels of hockey and there's no reason it can't work for the NHL too.

Darren
 
The argument I don't think is whether hits are clean or not. The argument seems to be that any hits to the head, clean or not, with or without intent, should be penalized. The main reason being for player safety, if that is the true concern of the league, it's players, and it's fans.

What if the rules were changed so that you can't hit above the shoulders? Would that make it easier for referees to make calls? It seems like a line needs to be drawn. Might the shoulders be that line?
 
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FrankToronto said:
The argument I don't think is whether hits are clean or not. The argument seems to be that any hits to the head, clear or not, with or without intent, should be penalized. The main reason being for player safety, if that is the true concern of the league, it's players, and it's fans.

What if the rules were changed so that you can't hit above the shoulders? Would that make it easier for referees to make calls? It seems like a line needs to be drawn. Might the shoulders be that line?
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I agree on they need to put something in place to help out the smaller guys in the NHL. But I also just wanted to point out that it was a clean hit and I might be alittle Basie because I'm goof friends with Saure:D
 
I wasn't even taking into consideration the size of the players. But it's a very good point. A larger player can get down and check a smaller player into the boards easily as can a smaller guy do the same against a larger player.

But when you go above the shoulders, it would take a smaller guy to jump off the ice to make the same check high on a player. But that jumping motion would be called automatically as intent to injure. Meanwhile the same damage can be done by a larger player, but it would be overlooked.

Isn't the classic check one where you bend your knees and take a guy at the waist into the boards? You hardly see those checks anymore. I remember seeing little Mats Naslund obliterate Cam Neely this way. It was pounding while being as clean as you could ever possibly get. But that was at a time before the early 90's. There have been many changes to the game since.
 
I don't think it is right to draw a line say at the shoulders. As I said, eliminate the malicious, attempting to injure a guy hit and accept the fact that sometimes when a guy has his head down there is no way to hit a guy but make some contact with the players head.
Would it help to do what Don Cherry has suggested for years and slim down some of the players equipment, make shoulder pads smaller etc. etc.
 
FrankToronto said:
I wasn't even taking into consideration the size of the players. But it's a very good point. A larger player can get down and check a smaller player into the boards easily as can a smaller guy do the same against a larger player.

But when you go above the shoulders, it would take a smaller guy to jump off the ice to make the same check high on a player. But that jumping motion would be called automatically as intent to injure. Meanwhile the same damage can be done by a larger player, but it would be overlooked.

Isn't the classic check one where you bend your knees and take a guy at the waist into the boards? You hardly see those checks anymore. I remember seeing little Mats Naslund obliterate Cam Neely this way. It was pounding while being as clean as you could ever possibly get. But that was at a time before the early 90's. There have been many changes to the game since.
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Reading this I only thought of Jordin Tootoo. Quite a few of his big hits were him leaving his feet to hit high and it only cemented his rep as a low player.

The league needs to do something about it for the sake of their players, if only to save the careers of their top shelf, playmaking, marquee players (Crosby, Ovechkin, Avery, etc.). Sadly, it'll take an injury to someone the league markets before they do anything at all.

Oh, and Avery made the list because he was on MTV Cribs. You're not a superstar in the NHL until you're featured on Cribs.
 
wildfan1833 said:
I don't want to ruffle anyones feathers but I just watch the Saure Hit and it looks clean to me. Even the the guys calling the game say it's a clean hit.

Here's the link to the youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB7y_nGkVVU&feature=related
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You mean the experts who call Phoenix Coyotes hockey games? Yeah I'll take their word any day of the week over the basic fact that Sauer's forearm clearly came into contact with Kostitsyn's head.
 
Triple B said:
The league needs to do something about it for the sake of their players, if only to save the careers of their top shelf, playmaking, marquee players (Crosby, Ovechkin, Avery, etc.). Sadly, it'll take an injury to someone the league markets before they do anything at all.

Oh, and Avery made the list because he was on MTV Cribs. You're not a superstar in the NHL until you're featured on Cribs.
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Glad you clarified the Avery thing.....although, who watches MTV anymore??? ;)

--Curt
 
This is such a tough call. There are blatant cheap shots (Downie on McAmmond) but then there's plays like Doug Weight; what's he supposed to do, skate away and let Sutter get by, or taking a hooking/holding penalty? In my opinion, if a guy throws a clean hit and the player hit isn't paying attention, it's on that guy, not the one throwing the hit. It's been that way for years, players just feel invincible nowadays and with the instigator rule, you can't defend your teammates as much, so you see frequent hits to the head (I don't think Chris Neil has ever thrown a hit NOT to the head). Let the players' teammates defend them if a player takes a cheapshot, and you'll see it a lot less. When Campbell laid out Umberger, I was upset but hey, it was a clean hit. And next year, Umberger went out there and had a go with Campbell, and that was that. It was settled. But I'm sure my thinking is in the minority.
 
what can you do, alot of the hits to the heads are peoples heads out with the puck and most of the time its not dirty hits, they put there shoulder into them...what can you do?, only way to really protect it is wear full helmets with the face mask....in hockey i always do the open ice hits, half of them are hits to the heads to the guy being smaller than me or his head is out with the puck...nothing you can do except take the man...look at scott stevens, one of the best hitters and most or all of his hits have been hits to the heads, if you watch his hits on youtube.
 
Remember how we loved Wendel Clark charging behind the opponent's net to cream the goalie, d-man, team-mate, linesman... whoever was there.... "Clear the track, here comes Shack....." Gordie's Elbows. Cam Neely...

And who is this Doug Weight guy??? He's thrown 3 checks in his lifetime.....

No offense but it's a contact sport. It's fast paced, high energy and sometimes bone crushing..... my goodness, sometimes they even fight..... and most of us love it just the way it is.

You show me one person who did not try to put his opponent into the 3rd row everytime they hit someone and I will show you someone who themselves was afraid of getting hit.

These players are well trained athelete's. They are strong and tough as nails. I don't want to see anyone get injured but the object is to stop the opponent from scoring and for your team to score.

Ryan's comment about protecting Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young..... woops, Ovechkin and Avery........ I laughed when I read that - they are throwing hits, it's part of their game (and fan attraction). Crosby and Ovechkin hit everyone around them. They don't pull the "Kostitsyn watch my pass" stuff and they don't get face-planted, although Ovy hit little Daniel Briere (no relation to Kostitsyn).

When you look at players like Kostitsyn, Datsyuk, etc... they manouver through out the open ice avoiding checks, making plays, scoring remarkable goals and they bring the crowd to thier feet. You look at Phaneuf - he brings the crowd to their feet as well when he puts a devestating hit on a player.

My point is - it's a remarkable game. Please don't change it.
 


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