How big is the online community relative to the hobby as a whole?

[Hckyfan47]

Last night I was discussing card collections with a guy I play beer league hockey with. He has quite an incredible Gustav Nyquist collection. Another guy chimed in about his Sergei Fedorov collection, which is also pretty sizable with some very nice pieces. Both of these guys however have no online activity outside of eBay. They use eBay, the occasional show, and their LCS as their main sources of purchasing/trading. They are not members of any forums.

This got me wondering, how big is the online hobby community, relative to the hobby of a whole? Do hobby sites like this and some of the other big guys (CnC, SCF, etc..) make up a good size of the hobby or is it just a small portion?

Of course I'm not silly enough to believe that sites like these make up 90%+ of the hobby or something crazy like that but is a good chunk, say 40-60%? Less? More?

Curious to see what you guys think, especially some of the store owners we have on here.

 

[BillInDallas]

I know I'll be in the minority, but I believe we (active in forums and perhaps actively buying and selling cards) represent a small portion of the collecting world, say 15% or so. When you factor in casual collectors that might just buy S1/S2 or OPC or Panini stickers each year, the collecing universe grows pretty quickly beyond us degens!

 

[Tripredacus]

I would say 15% at the most. And that's being generous. I've talked about this before either here or SCF... I did a comparison between Transformers and sports cards, which some may consider to be a bad comparison.

Card manufacturers seem to cater more to the hobbyist, at least in an official standing. Hasbro (the maker of Transformers) does to a point, but most of the "high end" products are either sold in Japan (Hasbro has no standing there, the actual manufacturer, Tomy, has exclusive reign) or by unauthorized third-parties. To compare this third-parties aspect to card collecting would be to say if Upper Deck only made 1 high end product, ie $100+ a box, and then other manufacturers (Panini, Leaf, etc) only made high end products to cater to the "left out" adult hobbyist with a paycheck.

In the Transformers example, Hasbro isn't as shut-in as card manufacturers and in fact do have a greater integration with the fanbase. When asked why they do not offer more high-end (actual wording is closer to "adult oriented") collectibles or products, Hasbro said it was due to the numbers. In their estimation, the target demographic that they lump collectors in was 5%. If this number is true (I would wager in the 10-15% range myself) it would also have to mean that those who fall into that range are also not all participating in online forums or groups.

I do realise that card collecting and toy collecting are different things but there are many similarities as I have been involved in both for a long time. Another reason for such a low number would be what I have seen myself. I would say, personally, I have met way more people who either collect toys or cards who are NOT involved in any online community than those who are. Of course these people are not technophobes of any sort as they often do go online to read news and whatnot.

For reference, I am strictly talking about cards themselves, not memorabilia or other wacky sports things people might collect.

Just my input.

 

[k_northrup]

I'd like to say that the percentage of card collectors that use web based forms is more likely 25-35% if not more. A lot of people will visit the site but might not post, or if they do it's only once in a while. I know of at least 3 people where I work that collect cards, and 2 of us are very active on hobby forums. I think a lot of poeple don't actully realize these types of hobby sites exist.

 

[Burner]

Pretty sure most of the big case breakers at my LCS don't post on the forums and consign most of their cards to the LCS to sell on eBay

 

[Docrinki]

I feel it is a very small portion of collectors who are active on a hobby site. In our community of collectors there would be less than 10 people active on sites. There would be over a hundred active collectors plus many smaller collectors. I would guess 5%.
Anand

 

[JSOKOL1626]

Wow, I don't think it's even close to 1%. That depends too, upon how you define "the hobby community". There's still a whole lot of people out there who buy an occasional pack of cheap cards or pick up singles at yard sales and flea markets without visiting hobby sites. Then take into account all the children who enjoy cards. Some sites appear to have large membership, but a random check of profiles will show that very few are engaged in buying/selling/trading and many members are inactive for extended periods of time. You can tell by the quantity and quality of cards in play on the sites that most active members are dedicated to the hobby at a high level.

 

[bto3105]

There is a huge amount of collectors that are not online and can agree with the percentages above.There are many mature collectors that either shy away from technology or just not interested in the social aspect a forum has to offer. Also you have people who do not have time and tend to just bust at the LCS or buy on ebay. It's mind blowing meeting someone at the LCS or Flea Market and discovering the mega collection no one knew about. Now you wondering why you haven't seen your white whales in years.....

I will say this... If it was not for the people I've met since joining here,I would not be collecting,period. Those collectors who are not on here are so missing out

 

[chakhae1]

It really depends on what you consider active in the online world. I am pretty sure every collector in the real world is aware of the online community and is part of a forum or knows someone that is part of the forum. Everyone also knows about ebay and if they don't they are lacking something in the hobby today.

With there being online group breaks everyday it also gives an easy way to enjoy the hobby and talk about the hobby amongst your peers. How many of the collectors in the world only rely on the internet for their collecting needs? I think the response here is too high and I would think that it is less than 10% because lcs's are all over the world and I would like to think collectors enjoy buying the odd pack/box/case of cards in person and not just dedicating their hobby purchases to the online world.

 

[30ranfordfan]

I'd very surprised if it was even approaching 10%.

Think of the amount of traffic you see here (or other sites like CnC or SCF, as the OP mentioned) and then think about the volume of Hockey cards produced last year. Do you think that members of these forums cracked even 10% of the wax that was opened last year?? I don't.

And that's just wax. That's not the secondary market.

 

[bamlinden]

I'd say easily less than 2-3%. On HI there have been about 1600 active members (those who have logged in over the past 6 months). And that's worldwide. Factoring in other online communities and such, I'd say the hobby board world would take up a very minimal piece of the pie.

There are lots of hobbyists who enjoy just opening packs and going to shows. Staying away from the world of online trading/chatting.

Just my opinion.

 

[Orca Pod]

I'll echo most of the sentiments and say a very low %. Hell, I can think of about 50 people locally that collect and aren't part of a hobby board.

Again, reminds me of that dude I met in Billings at a card store. This guy would buy, every year, 20 cases of UD1, 20 cases of UD2, 20 cases of Black Diamond, and 20 cases of one other product, depending on how he liked the look of it. Got chatting, and he told me he isn't on a hobby board, doesn't buy on eBay, doesn't sell on eBay; he just opens stuff, sorts it, and files it away. It was his 'therapy' as he put it. Once every 6 months or so, a buddy of his from some other state would bring a U-Haul and take all the base. I remember thinking, that guy alone opens more product than *everyone* on HI, and he isn't even a casebreaker/flipper.

 

[PensFan29]

I think you can take your question a step further and even examine "collectors" vs. "resellers" in the hobby. I have found that HI lends itself to more of the collecting population and its members are much more geared towards helping each other out with collections. Many of the deals I have made on here were lopsided one way or another because parties knew the cards would be more appreciated in another person's hands. Generally speaking, these would be the types of people to shy away from forums, as they just want to have fun and collect, and the online world can be rough. Resellers find themselves largely on other forums, trying to blow out their card sales, and it becomes more of a shark tank with more room for negativity and shady members. People you meet in person at an LCS or at a show can be easily identified into one of these two categories. Personally, I don't understand the reselling game as the odds are always stacked against hitting the high dollar cards every time, but I get a ton of joy from opening boxes and enjoying the mystery of what could be inside.

 

[chakhae1]

I think you can take your question a step further and even examine "collectors" vs. "resellers" in the hobby. I have found that HI lends itself to more of the collecting population and its members are much more geared towards helping each other out with collections. Many of the deals I have made on here were lopsided one way or another because parties knew the cards would be more appreciated in another person's hands. Generally speaking, these would be the types of people to shy away from forums, as they just want to have fun and collect, and the online world can be rough. Resellers find themselves largely on other forums, trying to blow out their card sales, and it becomes more of a shark tank with more room for negativity and shady members. People you meet in person at an LCS or at a show can be easily identified into one of these two categories. Personally, I don't understand the reselling game as the odds are always stacked against hitting the high dollar cards every time, but I get a ton of joy from opening boxes and enjoying the mystery of what could be inside.

I can't agree with you more here. I used to be pretty active on all of the forums online and by far my most enjoyable experiences were with the great members of this site. This forum keeps the human element alive and isn't just about making a fast buck and if you go onto the other forums rarely do you see people helping each other out and it is very difficult to get anything done.

I think the sad part about what you are saying is that this weeds out into the real world as well and a lot of the collectors take their attitude to the people they deal with in person. For me I like doing deals in person b/c you get to know the person, talk things out and then hopefully come to a reasonable conclusion. Sadly, within a few minutes I can usually tell if someone spends too much time on ebay and the other forums and is only looking to make a fast buck. Oh well.

 

[chakhae1]

Let us just leave it at this and say that the hobby is growing and the world wide web is a huge part of that. Perosonally I don't enjoy group breaks as much as I used to but I browse forums on a daily basis checking out what is going on in collecting and sports.

 

[JokestarWJ]

I haven't been collecting very long (only two years), and I really don't have any idea about the percentages of collector's on boards or not. But I do believe that online boards are great and at times very useful. For instance I live in DC and my closest LCS is 30 miles away, so really my only outlet to interact with collector's is via the boards. And I know when I began collecting two members over at CnC (MasterMax and Urban Monk) really helped me with some guidance on how to collect as far as being very specific with what I want to collect and how to not get consumed by the hobby by spreading myself thin with too many PC's. I do agree though with the statements earlier saying that online boards unfortunately does lend it self to being vulnerable to scammers/cheats who try to ruin the hobby with their deceitfulness.

 

[mralex69]

I don't think we are anywhere near percents.

Today there is almost 1,5 MILLION hockeycard auctions on ebay. So let's say that is every collector on the earth. Grabbing a number from nowhere say that every collector on is around 300 000 collectors(just to make up number). So to make up to the 1,5 million EVERY collector on earth would sell 5 cards each (EACH!!) month. Bamlinden states that the last 6 months there's been 1600 collectors on HI...

Guys we are not talking percent here... And that's only ebay.

Also there is amazon, craigslist, ebay.de, ebay.ca, and sites in China and Japan I don't have a clue about..

 

[sedinfan]

It really depends on how you define it...

If we're just looking at population regardless of how involved they are in the hobby, then the percentage is probably tiny - there are probably tens of thousands of kids out there who pick up the odd retail pack at Toys R Us, London Drugs, etc.

If we take retail out of the picture and consider just the hobby side of things, and look at in terms of what percentage of all the hobby cards pass through forum members hands, then I suspect we actually make up a significant percentage - at least as far as modern cards are concerned. I know in the set I focus on the most (Lord Stanley's Mug) three members here busted almost 3% of the entire print run, not to mention other folks who broke a handful of boxes here and there... and of course there's the folks buying the singles like me (I single handedly have 10% of all the high-end in the print run). Looking at other high end sets like The Cup where there are pretty good estimates on print runs, I'd venture a conservative guess that at least 5% of the product is broken by members here or one of the other popular hockey boards, not to mention the numerous group breaks that members here take part in, plus the folks here who collect singles. A little while back we had a show n tell thread to show off ITG Made to Order cards and it was shocking just how many of them are in the hands of board members. On the team collecting side of things, I'd say the majority of serious Canucks team or player collectors are on at least one of the major hockey forums.

So overall, I believe the percentage of high-end modern cards that pass through forum member hands is pretty sizeable, perhaps over 10% (I'll bet if you pick any 10 shield cards that have sold say on ebay, you'll find at least 1 if not more in member PC's here)... vintage though is another matter, the vintage forums here are very quiet compared to the activity that I'm sure goes on at shows, auctions, etc.

 

[JSOKOL1626]

It really depends on how you define it...

If we're just looking at population regardless of how involved they are in the hobby, then the percentage is probably tiny - there are probably tens of thousands of kids out there who pick up the odd retail pack at Toys R Us, London Drugs, etc.

If we take retail out of the picture and consider just the hobby side of things, and look at in terms of what percentage of all the hobby cards pass through forum members hands, then I suspect we actually make up a significant percentage - at least as far as modern cards are concerned. I know in the set I focus on the most (Lord Stanley's Mug) three members here busted almost 3% of the entire print run, not to mention other folks who broke a handful of boxes here and there... and of course there's the folks buying the singles like me (I single handedly have 10% of all the high-end in the print run). Looking at other high end sets like The Cup where there are pretty good estimates on print runs, I'd venture a conservative guess that at least 5% of the product is broken by members here or one of the other popular hockey boards, not to mention the numerous group breaks that members here take part in, plus the folks here who collect singles. A little while back we had a show n tell thread to show off ITG Made to Order cards and it was shocking just how many of them are in the hands of board members. On the team collecting side of things, I'd say the majority of serious Canucks team or player collectors are on at least one of the major hockey forums.

So overall, I believe the percentage of high-end modern cards that pass through forum member hands is pretty sizeable, perhaps over 10% (I'll bet if you pick any 10 shield cards that have sold say on ebay, you'll find at least 1 if not more in member PC's here)... vintage though is another matter, the vintage forums here are very quiet compared to the activity that I'm sure goes on at shows, auctions, etc.

ITG collectors comprise a very tiny portion of the overall hobby market as they only produce hockey in limited quantity.

 

[Stadium Sports]

I would say less than 1%. First off, the worlds largest card shop is the walmarts and targets of the world followed by the local corner convenience stores. The retail product sales make up a HUGE part of product sales. In my store, we still have 1/2 of our customers who don't dabble on the Internet. Sure, ebay has a million cards listed at any given time but those are not single auctions by a million different people. I would suggest to you that Walmart and target sell a million cards a day (assuming there is 7 cards in a pack).

You may think I'm wrong but sit back and think about it and do the math.