How Many Games Will/Should Wideman Get?

newfiecomicguy1 said:
Was there intent.....now prove it.
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Whether he meant to hit a ref or another player - I think most will agree that when he put his other hand on the stick to bring it up into a parallel position - that signified intent.



And in the NHL - they do not have to prove intent, you are mistaking it for a court of law.
 
Intent in the NHL is still pretty hard to prove. They just might not have to do it to "without reasonable doubt".

And there could be intent, but Wideman's defence could be he didn't intend to hit the official. He thought it was a player, given his woozy state of mind.

Given no prior infraction, and nobody has been able to give a real motivation that makes sense. Why would Wideman hit the official? Not saying he didn't, and that it wasn't a cross-check, but can someone who watched most of that game, or the plays leading up to it, explain why Wideman would intentionally hit a ref?

He didn't look frustrated or pissed off at the bench. Didn't look mad at himself for doing something stupid. He just looked a bit lost.

If he was frustrated that he got hit, then usually guys just slam their sticks against the boards. It's notl like it was supposed to be an icing that got waived off at the last second, leaving him in a prone position.

I think he should have gone to the quiet room for a quick check. But I'm not sure if the trainers even knew that he had hit his head. One of them did talk with him a bit on the bench.
 
suitman19 said:
In addition, the following disciplinary penalties
shall apply:
CATEGORY I
Any Player who deliberately strikes an Official and causes
injury or who deliberately applies physical force in any
manner against an Official with intent to injure, or who in
any manner attempts to injure an Official shall be
automatically suspended for not less than 20 games. (For
the purpose of the Rule, "intent to injure" shall mean any
physical force which a player knew or should have known
could reasonably be expected to cause injury.)
CATEGORY II
Any Player who deliberately applies excessive physical
force to an Official in any manner (excluding actions as set
out in Category I), which physical force is applied without
intent to injure, shall be automatically suspended for not
less than 10 games.


Straight from the rule book.
A) I see nothing in the rules that says that a penalty HAD to be called on the ice.
B) The sticking point will be the intent to injure - but the act itself is most likely egregious enough to warrant the intent. he clearly goes from one hand to two in order to deliver the stick blow.
C) Even in a dizzy state it does not matter if 'he thought' he was going to hit an opposing player - he intended to hit someone.
D) You cannot compare any player on player actions to the act of hitting an official.


Lack of prior infractions - give him 20 and leave it at that.
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Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected. A lot of sites were just stating 20 games automatically.
 
tiger -
Not intending it to be an official still means you intended to hit someone.
That in and of itself is intent.
There really is no way around it - he intended to hit someone.
 
Sorry Bruce - I disagree on the nature of his 'intent'... he put his hands up to protect himself... I get what you're saying though too, and I guess it's going to come down to how the NHL views intent and the premeditated aspect of it... I personally don't think it was premeditated, but there definitely was intent, in that split second, to participate in a physical contact.

Like so many rules in the NHL though, it's got enough gray area for them to come up with whatever they want.

We should be hearing soon, no?

Cory
 
Personally I can't see Wideman doing it intentionally. I was a bit shocked he didn't go to the room and get the confusion protocol, but even if he wasn't concussed, he was very likely dizzy and dazed from the hit. I can't imagine he would go that far as to cross check the ref, perhaps another player while going to the bench (perhaps he thought it was the player who creamed him in to the boards?).

Either way, I think he has to be suspended for the NHL to set an example. Even if it was unintentional, the league has to throw the book at him a little? I think he gets just over the minimum, and gets 12 games. Which I think he appeals due to his lack of history and it gets reduced down to just below 10, perhaps 8 games or so?

This gives the idea that the NHL gave more than the minimum and players can't get away with it, but because Wideman has no real history the appeal can bring those games below the minimum.

Just my thought.
 
Cory - we will just disagree. I don't believe you lift your hand up and push out and up to protect yourself from running into a body.

My point is that it does not matter if he intended to hit the official, he did.

If you truly believe that there was no intent to hit the person in front of him - then under Category 2 of the rule he should get a minimum of 10 games.
 
What about a scenario where in a scrum players are trying to punch each other with the refs around? The player intends to hit someone (the other player), but misses and gets the ref. That's happened numerous times with no penalty or suspension.

I have seen guys (usually players adverse to physical play) put up their hands and stick to defend themselves and push off. I wish I could find some video evidence of this, but usually not a "highlight reel" play or hit.

Players do it all the time in shoving matches. Granted, they are facing each other and usually it's not a 2 handed cross check. But it has happened.
 
20 games.....i suspect Wideman will appeal and hope to get it knocked down to 12-15. currently the suspension runs till the first week of March.

I'd suspect Flames will try to get it to expire before the Trade deadline, so they have options on moving him.

Since he's not a repeat offender the forfeited salary is done different, but he still ends up losing just shy of 600K. OUCH!

Curious to see if he will still count towards the roster size. That's a tough one for the flames to work around if he still counts on the man roster.
 
sanintarious said:
Curious to see if he will still count towards the roster size. That's a tough one for the flames to work around if he still counts on the man roster.
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He does. For the next 20 games the Flames will have 22 roster spots to work with. I believe the roster size can change after the trade deadline.
 
NNeves said:
He does. For the next 20 games the Flames will have 22 roster spots to work with. I believe the roster size can change after the trade deadline.
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I believe there is still a 23 man limit even after the deadline. Only time this changes is come playoffs? Or when the AHL season is over? i know they can call up a tone of eligible calls ups when that time comes around.

I am curious about what will happen for tonights game. Flames called up Nakladel, already they have stated he isn't playing tonight, but Ferland should be activated, which then gives them 24 players again.

Perhaps he won't be activated and will re-join the line up next game. Expect another move tomorrow.
 
NNeves said:
He does. For the next 20 games the Flames will have 22 roster spots to work with. I believe the roster size can change after the trade deadline.
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It was just announced that he will not count against the 23 man roster. I think he should just take his sentence. He deserved it, I believe it was unintentional, but he still did it and the league needs to make it clear that refs and linesmen are off limits!!!
 
I suppose it's just a footnote at this point, but the answer is, as of just yesterday, 10.

Given that he actually served 19, I anticipate Wideman will be forced to play 9 games by himself, and still lose every one.
 
pathshot said:
I suppose it's just a footnote at this point, but the answer is, as of just yesterday, 10.

Given that he actually served 19, I anticipate Wideman will be forced to play 9 games by himself, and still lose every one.
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I'm sure he will be getting reimbursed for the extra games he sat out for lost wages?
 
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Leafsfan1967 said:
I'm sure he will be getting reimbursed for the extra games he sat out for lost wages?
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I would have to assume that's the only reason this continued to play out after serving the suspension. I'm not sure what difference having a prior of 10 vs 20 games makes in terms of potential future suspensions, etc., assuming he'd ever have another. I think this was his first and only.

He suffered a concussion, and a big deal was made about him refusing treatment but it's A BRAIN INJURY. Yes, you shouldn't hit an official, but was it really *him* doing it so much as his physical being and a disoriented brain?

I've never liked this suspension, and I'm glad it was reduced - even if only for the paycheck.
 

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