It's Getting Personal Now

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I guess a good poll for this subject would be if you were doing a set of something rare. Let's say Emblem Attic would you consider it complete with a Vault version in it?

Some people might. If so the Vault devalued the old cards.

I would use the Vault card as a place holder. But I wouldn't consider the set complete. In this case the Vault cards didn't hurt anything.

I have the 1/1 Iafrate from Superlative. I didn't bid nearly as much for the Vault version and lost the auction. I don't feel this hurt my card at all and I am positive the guy that won the Vault card would happily pay more for my card.
 
Jester240 said:
I guess a good poll for this subject would be if you were doing a set of something rare. Let's say Emblem Attic would you consider it complete with a Vault version in it?

Some people might. If so the Vault devalued the old cards.

I would use the Vault card as a place holder. But I wouldn't consider the set complete. In this case the Vault cards didn't hurt anything.

I have the 1/1 Iafrate from Superlative. I didn't bid nearly as much for the Vault version and lost the auction. I don't feel this hurt my card at all and I am positive the guy that won the Vault card would happily pay more for my card.
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Exactly. Let's ask the OP: would his collection feel complete with a stamped version instead of the original? If not, then no damage has been done.

I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing this - this IS Hobby Talk, after all. Perhaps the threads should be consolidated, but no need for anyone to suppress his/her opinion as long as it is stated politely.
 
I think a lot of the supporters are putting too much stock into a piece of foil. Yes of course new players get dozens of game used and autograph releases per year but do we really need "discounted" pieces available of all time greats? Isn't there something fun about scarcity?
 
cardboardnostalgia said:
I think a lot of the supporters are putting too much stock into a piece of foil. Yes of course new players get dozens of game used and autograph releases per year but do we really need "discounted" pieces available of all time greats? Isn't there something fun about scarcity?
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The original cards are still scarce though. No one is suggesting that a Vault copy is as good or collectible, unless you don't give a hoot about the stamp.

As a player supercollector I would not be satisfied unless I had the originals. Vault cards are bonus cards in this case. I didn't feel the need to get my hands on all three versions of the Superlative Vaults but I wanted at least one of them.

Also, they're perfect as one-offs for players I semi-collect, I've picked up Superlative Vaults of a Brett Hull jersey and a Trevor Linden auto/emblem. No way would I display the Hull in the same frame as the rest of my Superlative autos & jerseys but it looks just fine by itself in the display case.

At the end of the day I'm collecting for me.
 
87sluggo said:
The original cards are still scarce though. No one is suggesting that a Vault copy is as good or collectible, unless you don't give a hoot about the stamp.

As a player supercollector I would not be satisfied unless I had the originals. Vault cards are bonus cards in this case. I didn't feel the need to get my hands on all three versions of the Superlative Vaults but I wanted at least one of them.

Also, they're perfect as one-offs for players I semi-collect, I've picked up Superlative Vaults of a Brett Hull jersey and a Trevor Linden auto/emblem. No way would I display the Hull in the same frame as the rest of my Superlative autos & jerseys but it looks just fine by itself in the display case.

At the end of the day I'm collecting for me.
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Well put.....ive been going after the gold versions of my PC player to fill holes in my collection. I do not value them nearly as much as i would if i could get my hands on the regular versions of these cards......in fact i would more than likely move the Vault version if i picked up the original.......I do however value them more than show stamped which I do not collect.
 
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87sluggo said:
The original cards are still scarce though. No one is suggesting that a Vault copy is as good or collectible, unless you don't give a hoot about the stamp.

As a player supercollector I would not be satisfied unless I had the originals. Vault cards are bonus cards in this case. I didn't feel the need to get my hands on all three versions of the Superlative Vaults but I wanted at least one of them.

Also, they're perfect as one-offs for players I semi-collect, I've picked up Superlative Vaults of a Brett Hull jersey and a Trevor Linden auto/emblem. No way would I display the Hull in the same frame as the rest of my Superlative autos & jerseys but it looks just fine by itself in the display case.

At the end of the day I'm collecting for me.
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I totally understand your position but some players are so rarely included in sets or have so little game used available that when any of their cards appear on the market its unique.

I also understand the marketing behind Dr. Price "Doing it for the collector" but in reality ITG had stores of old product in boxes, packs and replacement cards. They sold off a ton of boxes to the usual suspects and then added a piece of foil to cards that were meant specifically for replacement cards only.

Honestly ITG should have just forgot about the foil, opened an eBay account ITGStore and sold all of their old cards regardless of previously stated print run. The end result is the same.
 
cardboardnostalgia said:
I also understand the marketing behind Dr. Price "Doing it for the collector" but in reality ITG had stores of old product in boxes, packs and replacement cards. They sold off a ton of boxes to the usual suspects and then added a piece of foil to cards that were meant specifically for replacement cards only.

Honestly ITG should have just forgot about the foil, opened an eBay account ITGStore and sold all of their old cards regardless of previously stated print run. The end result is the same.
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I was getting ready to go against you...then I noticed what you wrote...lol

Anyone here own a business before? In the end its about money. MONEY...
M O N E Y

But standing behind something for so long and then going against it makes me angry. Lets forget about integrity.

A persons life can change when monetarily forces go against...of course. I would understand that.

Integrity.

Just come and tell me I was wrong for supporting someone/something I value. Going against a big corporation who does wrong but you were right. I support that. Listening to what people have to say whether it profits you or not. I would support that. Changing the way your competitors copy you. I support that.

Please say something and make it clear.
 
craxz said:
I was getting ready to go against you...then I noticed what you wrote...lol

Anyone here own a business before? In the end its about money. MONEY...
M O N E Y

But standing behind something for so long and then going against it makes me angry. Lets forget about integrity.

A persons life can change when monetarily forces go against...of course. I would understand that.

Integrity.

Just come and tell me I was wrong for supporting someone/something I value. Going against a big corporation who does wrong but you were right. I support that. Listening to what people have to say whether it profits you or not. I would support that. Changing the way your competitors copy you. I support that.

Please say something and make it clear.
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I'm all for making money but lets not make this out to be some noble cause on the part of Dr. Price and ITG. Its been an extremely profitable twenty years for both parties and they found a pretty unique way for collectors to purchase inventory that shouldn't exist. I don't consider it noble or wrong but it certainly weakens the hobby especially if you're a player collector or someone that spent a large sum of money on one of these cards with the understanding that it was the only one in existence.
 
cardboardnostalgia said:
I'm all for making money but lets not make this out to be some noble cause on the part of Dr. Price and ITG. Its been an extremely profitable twenty years for both parties and they found a pretty unique way for collectors to purchase inventory that shouldn't exist. I don't consider it noble or wrong but it certainly weakens the hobby especially if you're a player collector or someone that spent a large sum of money on one of these cards with the understanding that it was the only one in existence.
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I think the Moderators should contact ITG and Mr.Price, and Leaf . and AGENT NO-7.

I actually like no7 but coincidences seem to favor them week after week for years....lol

I/We just want to know whats up?
 
Soooo buying amazing vintage cards for a fraction of the price is a bad thing? Don't buy them than? Such a silly thread, I LOVE the vault sets and will continue to pile vintage memorabilia into my PC. So please leave it all for me :)
 
chemicalstylez said:
Soooo buying amazing vintage cards for a fraction of the price is a bad thing? Don't buy them than? Such a silly thread, I LOVE the vault sets and will continue to pile vintage memorabilia into my PC. So please leave it all for me :)
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Devaluing the collections of your loyal customers in an attempt to make one last buck is a bad thing.
 
I think collectors will jump on the original versions as strong as they would have without the stamp ones. Whether its vault or expo stamp. For me stamp ones are a nice side stuff but not qualify as set fillers or anything. Seems like most of us think this way.
 
cardboardnostalgia said:
Devaluing the collections of your loyal customers in an attempt to make one last buck is a bad thing.
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Doesn't devalue anyone's collections as they are stamped appropriately. They are not the original product. At first I thought it would effect the value of the original cards, but after some time of watching prices I really don't see it happening. The real cards will hold the real value. People like me piling on cards are enjoying it for what it is.
 
craxz said:
I love ITG cards. I even continued to buy ITG cards after they weren't licensed by the NHL. No logos, no full pictures on cards, etc. I still bought and invested my time and money in collecting going by their representation how limited each card was.

If I knew then a card out 10 is really out of 15 I would not have spent what I did-taking into consideration the time it will take me to possibly find a card like that again.

I don't hate ITG. I like ITG, but this card which is 14-15 years old should not have been released. If it was a going out of business sale with products from the last year or two...okay understandable. 15 YEARS?

Its like printing money.
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I think you got the point all wrong in the beginning, these vault products had nothing to do with Leaf, as you can see the wrapper still say ITG, the cards are what leftover from what leafs couldn't use, already printed cards, some are extra in case of replacement, some are I think from Dr. price's "vault" and some were past expo giveaways

I think Dr Price's standpoint about releasing these vault products are good, made cool pieces available for more affordable price

Is really up to you collectors to include these cards in your collection or not, they are easily distinguishable

I don't get way people are so upset over this, so you are upset about something you can never find, re-releasing with an extra stamp ?

Easy, buy the vault cards and bent it in half and set it on fire, you will never see it again, but in the end, you still can't find the original you are looking for

I say just let it live, if you can bare with it in your collection, then go nuts, if not, continue with your scheduled programming
 
chemicalstylez said:
Doesn't devalue anyone's collections as they are stamped appropriately. They are not the original product. At first I thought it would effect the value of the original cards, but after some time of watching prices I really don't see it happening. The real cards will hold the real value. People like me piling on cards are enjoying it for what it is.
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This, this, this, this. Much like an Artifacts base set, you don't build a set out of random rubies, emeralds, base, etc., you go after one or the other and chase it until it is done. I have never met a person that did a rag tag set. Same with these cards, they are very obviously stamped, sold at a lessened cost because they simply are not worth as much as the originals because they are not originals, and they resell for less because they are not originals. It is lunacy to be upset that there might be another card out here with patches and jerseys of your favorite player.......because that will always be the case. The stamp very clearly makes it NOT YOUR CARD.
 
My take to the OP: if it gets too personal for you, you might want to consider taking a step back from the hobby and re-evaluate why you collect. Companies in all walks of life go out of business all of the time, and their assets are often sold off at a fraction of the original value. Those of us that have collected for a long time have watched many card companies go out of business, and it's no secret Upper Deck has been right on the brink more than once. One way or another what's left sitting in their buildings end up circulating: see Fleer, Pacific, etc. I try to keep that in mind because I firmly believe that could happen with any card company at any time.
 
This thread and its like seem only to contribute negativity and bickering. This one's shut.
 
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