Jerseys and cards

[nars101]

Hi everyone.

I was having a conversation with someone recently and I was bellyaching about the cost of some card sets (ie The Cup) and event worn jerseys etc.. and he made a comment that got my wheels turning.

Where does a company get it's jerseys to cut up? I assume Meigray and if so do they get a much more smoking deal then the common collector from Meigray?

Does anyone know how many jerseys are used by each player in a year? I had assumed 2-3 per game but perhaps the number is one for every 2-3 games?

Let's take Taylor Hall as an example. Currently his second year jerseys are selling for 4500.00ea on the site. That's his second year!! I never saw the cost of the rookie jersey but I can assume it's gotta be at least 20% higher if not more. The same person told me the RNH was about 6-8k during the year.

30 jerseys to split between three card companies and memorabilia collectors seems actually pretty tight to me.

Then I started doing some quick math. Let's take a Taylor Hall second year jersey and assumed a 50% discount for card companies maybe it's better I'm guessing it's worse and that the jersey cost 2250.00

How many limited logos can be cut from a oiler patch? 50?
So that limited logo is now worth 45.00 in memorabilia alone not counting the designers,manufacturers,printers,packers,marketing etc.

I can kinda see why it's preferable to use event and photoshoot jerseys where the cost is incrementally lower than actual game used for some of these superstar players and even to some extent why these cards packs and boxes are getting so stinking expensive.


Am I missing something ? Feel free to attack I'm thick skinned I was just very curious about the process of actually creating a card.

 

[FrozenInferno]

Meigray releases population reports so you can see how many jerseys a particular player wore during the season, but that's only for the teams that are currently with Meigray which I think is down to eight or so lately. Barry from Meigray has publicly stated that card companies buy many jerseys from them and most of the time they are willing to buy the "one-game-wonders" that collectors may not desire as much. Just to give an example, the Gaborik patch in my signature was taken from a "one-game-wonder" that ITG bought from Meigray during his first season with the Rangers. Players like Ovechkin wear a LOT of jerseys per year and it's hard to say how many make it to card companies and how many go to collectors.

Besides that the majority of gamers, I assume, come from sources like the teams directly, dealers, auction sites, players, or other collectors who sell to the card companies. How many jerseys a player wears a year could vary depending on the team or program so there's no definitive number. I think some teams like the Red Wings only wear one set through a season while others, including a few Meigray teams, wear as many as three sets. For a team like the Rangers, who now have their jerseys sold through Steiner, you never really know how many jerseys are worn because their system has no accountability and they can produce a "game-worn" jersey of any player you like so long as you are willing to pay the price.

Other teams don't make game-worn jerseys available at all, or very rarely. The Minnesota Wild have gotten a little bit better lately but for the longest time they would only leak out a set here and there and the rest are stored away somewhere. They are literally sitting on thousands of gamers since their inaugural year that may never see the market. The Sharks are also protective of their game jerseys and only sell them at the team auction once a year, and you have to be there to buy it. They even go as far as to get you to agree to never sell the jersey to anyone else but I don't know how that's enforced.

As for how many patches you get from a jersey check out one of Panini's blog posts about Prime, back when the patches were being cut. A cool chance to see how many patches were cut from different jerseys.

 

[Stevini18]

I've always wanted to go to my printing guy and see what it would cost to make some cards. I'm in the media production business and have done my fair share of professional printing. I'm sure whatever printing company UD uses gives them a smokin deal for the contract, but there's a lot that goes into it.

First, you gotta license the photos. Then, you gotta design the card. Then, layout the card in Photoshop/Illustrator/Indesign/Quark etc. Every card has to be different, have different text, a different number, and different stats, and be proofread for errors. Plus, the markings for the die-cuts (if any) have to be built into the design file. Also, some sets like this year's Ultimate have Spot UV coating - where only the player is glossy on the card - this has to be built into the design and marked for the computer to gloss only a certain part.

Then, paper stock selection. Most of the higher end cards are multiple layers thick. So, the back and front stock have to be picked. Plus, the middle has to be sorted out. The Cup Gold cards have yellow stock in the middle of the outer layers. This costs more money. The middle stock has to be die-cut for the patches etc. The die-cut die, if it's anything more than a square or circle, has to be custom made. This costs more money.

Once the stock is picked and the dies are made, printing can begin. They'll print 4 color printing for the back and front at a super high DPI (gotta be higher than 300DPI, as the cards look sharper and have less "print dots" than any brochure I've ever had printed). Then, Spot-UV coating with a custom "die" for each card. Then, foil stamping and serial numbering (both with custom foils, colors, fonts, and setups). After foil stamping, they can die cut. Then, assembly of the cards (Panini did a video of this a while ago) - which includes putting the correct patches or jerseys in the correct places (I believe on sticky tape), and putting the tops and bottoms together with the middles.

Once the cards are assembled, they can be cut. A special cutting machine will have the correct pattern to cut the cards up.

Then, shipping to the athletes to sign, return shipping costs, and the waiting game.

Then, hand-packing, shrink wrapping, etc.

This does not take into account jersey acquisition, cutting, and cataloging, all of which take time and money too.

That's why sets like the UDS1 or S2 can be much cheaper than The Cup - minimal foil, minimal die-cutting, no five-layer cards - they're MUCH easier to produce.

Considering it costs me like $5 each to print 1000 brochures with no die-cuts, producing cards has to be very expensive.


Also, something to keep in mind is that UD gets no money from secondary sales of its cards (ebay, etc). The ONLY thing they have to make a profit on is the sale of their product. And if they try to make too much of a profit with a higher MSRP, we complain. If they're not covering all their costs, they have money issues. Once their product is made and shipped out, their money is in, and that's it...so, while they're producing Hopkins ARPs for $35 each (guessing with materials and print costs), they're not seeing the thou$and$ they will get on the secondary market.


It's definitely interesting to break the whole process down, and as I said, I would love to try it some time and see what it costs to really product a nice set.

 

[Rraincock]

That just earned you a beer, sir!

 

[richie.rocket.cards]

I've always wanted to go to my printing guy and see what it would cost to make some cards. I'm in the media production business and have done my fair share of professional printing. I'm sure whatever printing company UD uses gives them a smokin deal for the contract, but there's a lot that goes into it.

First, you gotta license the photos. Then, you gotta design the card. Then, layout the card in Photoshop/Illustrator/Indesign/Quark etc. Every card has to be different, have different text, a different number, and different stats, and be proofread for errors. Plus, the markings for the die-cuts (if any) have to be built into the design file. Also, some sets like this year's Ultimate have Spot UV coating - where only the player is glossy on the card - this has to be built into the design and marked for the computer to gloss only a certain part.

Then, paper stock selection. Most of the higher end cards are multiple layers thick. So, the back and front stock have to be picked. Plus, the middle has to be sorted out. The Cup Gold cards have yellow stock in the middle of the outer layers. This costs more money. The middle stock has to be die-cut for the patches etc. The die-cut die, if it's anything more than a square or circle, has to be custom made. This costs more money.

Once the stock is picked and the dies are made, printing can begin. They'll print 4 color printing for the back and front at a super high DPI (gotta be higher than 300DPI, as the cards look sharper and have less "print dots" than any brochure I've ever had printed). Then, Spot-UV coating with a custom "die" for each card. Then, foil stamping and serial numbering (both with custom foils, colors, fonts, and setups). After foil stamping, they can die cut. Then, assembly of the cards (Panini did a video of this a while ago) - which includes putting the correct patches or jerseys in the correct places (I believe on sticky tape), and putting the tops and bottoms together with the middles.

Once the cards are assembled, they can be cut. A special cutting machine will have the correct pattern to cut the cards up.

Then, shipping to the athletes to sign, return shipping costs, and the waiting game.

Then, hand-packing, shrink wrapping, etc.

This does not take into account jersey acquisition, cutting, and cataloging, all of which take time and money too.

That's why sets like the UDS1 or S2 can be much cheaper than The Cup - minimal foil, minimal die-cutting, no five-layer cards - they're MUCH easier to produce.

Considering it costs me like $5 each to print 1000 brochures with no die-cuts, producing cards has to be very expensive.


Also, something to keep in mind is that UD gets no money from secondary sales of its cards (ebay, etc). The ONLY thing they have to make a profit on is the sale of their product. And if they try to make too much of a profit with a higher MSRP, we complain. If they're not covering all their costs, they have money issues. Once their product is made and shipped out, their money is in, and that's it...so, while they're producing Hopkins ARPs for $35 each (guessing with materials and print costs), they're not seeing the thou$and$ they will get on the secondary market.


It's definitely interesting to break the whole process down, and as I said, I would love to try it some time and see what it costs to really product a nice set.

This is very true. I tried to make some cards carbon copy of UD cards, and some of the tech they have, I don't even know the name for. For example, the raised gloss on Sp Authentic base cards above a relatively flat stock...

Foil stamping is probably the most costly part of card production though, especially if custom shapes need to be made for each subset. This has to be followed by die-cutting. They don't seem to reuse shapes very often either.

 

[Drewphoria]

There's a good recent story on Cardboard Connection about where a lot of the jerseys may have come from:
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/card-companies-identified-by-man-accused-of-fraud-in-fbi-interview

 

[FrozenInferno]

There's a good recent story on Cardboard Connection about where a lot of the jerseys may have come from:
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/card-companies-identified-by-man-accused-of-fraud-in-fbi-interview

Brad Wells is one of the six guys the FBI arrested over fake jerseys:

http://www.cardboardconnection.com/charged-sports-memorabilia-probe

I would like to think this happens more in "big market" sports like baseball and basketball, but one never knows for sure.