buyerbrad
Verified Trader
Based on my post in a previous thread, do you think the NHL has the lowest standards of making the HOF out of the 4 major sports?
Mark Howe - worst player in the HOF?
- Thread starter buyerbrad
- Start date
JHEYKID
New Member, Must Send First!
Yes, shouldnt have to induct every year, would much rather there be off years with no one then induct non worthy people.
Kharlamov17
Verified Trader
Hear, hear.
golgo13
Verified Trader,
I'm wondering if he got some special consideration because of who his father is, I definitely think Bure should have made it in though......
timber09
www.lumberjackcards.com,
These appear to be two thoughts with absolutely no evidence to back them up. Not only that, you didn't even put a reasonable effort in to debating why anyone should consider either one of these claims to be anywhere near accurate.
Orca Pod
Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
As long as everyone else in the entire history of the game makes it in before Candace Cameron's brother-in-law, everything is great in my world.
re-ac-tor
Verified Trader,
I assume that your under 35, so you never saw Mark Howe play. I don't think he's even the worst player in this HOF Class
1982–83:
First All-Star Team
Mark Messier • Wayne Gretzky • Mike Bossy
Mark Howe • Rod Langway
Pete Peeters
1985–86:
First All-Star Team
Michel Goulet • Wayne Gretzky • Mike Bossy
Paul Coffey • Mark Howe
John Vanbiesbrouck
1986–87:
First All-Star Team
Michel Goulet • Wayne Gretzky • Jari Kurri
Mark Howe • Ray Bourque
Ron Hextall
3 Times runner up for the Norris
Over 700 points in the NHL
Over 500 points in the WHA
Plus 400 +/- in HHL Career
If that's the worst player in the HOF then they have the highest standards of all the sports.
My best,
Ken
1982–83:
First All-Star Team
Mark Messier • Wayne Gretzky • Mike Bossy
Mark Howe • Rod Langway
Pete Peeters
1985–86:
First All-Star Team
Michel Goulet • Wayne Gretzky • Mike Bossy
Paul Coffey • Mark Howe
John Vanbiesbrouck
1986–87:
First All-Star Team
Michel Goulet • Wayne Gretzky • Jari Kurri
Mark Howe • Ray Bourque
Ron Hextall
3 Times runner up for the Norris
Over 700 points in the NHL
Over 500 points in the WHA
Plus 400 +/- in HHL Career
If that's the worst player in the HOF then they have the highest standards of all the sports.
My best,
Ken
canucksfreak19
Verified Trader,
Agreed in full, and unlike the op you've actually given statistical analysis to substantiate your position.
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
I am not old enough to remember seeing him play, but based off what I've heard and read about him, I do not think he is undeserving of his induction.
However, I will agree to a point that the NHL has the lowest standards of the 4 major sports, and there are some very questionable players in the HHOF right now.
However, I will agree to a point that the NHL has the lowest standards of the 4 major sports, and there are some very questionable players in the HHOF right now.
sprague11
Upstanding Member
Howe has a pair of AVCO cups as well, and was runner up for the Norris a couple times too I believe. 2 80 point seasons for a Defenceman is nothing to sneeze at either. Bloodlines has nothing to do with it - Mark Howe was talented and criminally under-rated. Not any more.
golgo13
Verified Trader,
Alright, I will be the first to admit I was wrong, I'm 32 and saw the latter half of Mark's career. I do believe Bure should still make it in, he had a pretty significant impact upon arrival in the NHL and was part of the "Russian Invasion" oh and I enjoyed pulling his YG RC several times as a youth :devil:
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VintageHky
Bleeding Blue and Gold ,
I'm sure Gordie would give you an ear full based on this assumption.Gordie never allowed his boys to "skate" through a season or game based on who he was. He would have put a skate boot up Marty's and Mark's rear end if they thought they could ride his coat tails.
I'm sure "be your own man and stand up for yourself" was somewhat in the HOWE philopshy of playing hockey;so to say Mark is a weak choice is damn silly.
Playing in an era with Bourque,coffey and Robinson took some spotlight away from Mark,though he wasn't looking to be in the spotlight;he just wanted to help his team win and do well himself.
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meatmancgy
Verified Trader ,
I am happier to have Mark Howe in there than Gilmour. Definitely glad Bure got looked over, but think Pat Burns and Carbonneau should have had a much closer look.
JTMcCool
Verified Trader,
Mark Howe is a very deserving Hall of Famer. Anyone with hockey knowledge prior to 1990 knows that. Clark Gillies? Bernie Federko? Not so much.
bto3105
Transactions Moderator, Upstanding Member,
Thumbs up for Mark Howe.
He was a force in the WHA and the NHL. All star in both leagues and very deserving to enter the hall. There are many who can be considered underneath him but it really doesn't matter anyway.....pointless debate,he's in
He was a force in the WHA and the NHL. All star in both leagues and very deserving to enter the hall. There are many who can be considered underneath him but it really doesn't matter anyway.....pointless debate,he's in
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
D*ck Duff was way before my time, but he's in the HHOF and I'm not exactly sure why.
For a LW, his stats aren't too impressive. He has 6 Stanley cup rings, but I don't think he was a major factor in them. Never scored more than 53 points in a season.
GP 1,030
G 283
A 289
P 572
PIM 743
Playoffs
GP 114
G 30
A 49
P 79
PIM 78
Seems like the OP didn't do his homework. seriously, at least try to do a little research. Just look at Howe's stats. 3 time runner up for the Norris, 2 Stanley cup finals (both losses to Oilers in their prime).
742 points in 929 NHL games, not including WHA totals, which puts him at 22nd all time defencemen scoring, and he was a PLUS 400! Those stats are better than Scott Neidermayer, and he did it in 300+ less games.
If he had started in the NHL instead of the WHA and wasn't hampered by injuries later in his career, he'd be in the top 10 for d-men scoring and he would be called the 1980's version of Lidstrom.
Wasn't flashy like Coffey, but took care of both ends of the rink.
For a LW, his stats aren't too impressive. He has 6 Stanley cup rings, but I don't think he was a major factor in them. Never scored more than 53 points in a season.
GP 1,030
G 283
A 289
P 572
PIM 743
Playoffs
GP 114
G 30
A 49
P 79
PIM 78
Seems like the OP didn't do his homework. seriously, at least try to do a little research. Just look at Howe's stats. 3 time runner up for the Norris, 2 Stanley cup finals (both losses to Oilers in their prime).
742 points in 929 NHL games, not including WHA totals, which puts him at 22nd all time defencemen scoring, and he was a PLUS 400! Those stats are better than Scott Neidermayer, and he did it in 300+ less games.
If he had started in the NHL instead of the WHA and wasn't hampered by injuries later in his career, he'd be in the top 10 for d-men scoring and he would be called the 1980's version of Lidstrom.
Wasn't flashy like Coffey, but took care of both ends of the rink.
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tiger tiger
Verified Trader
This is so true.
His mom had the same attitude.
I remember hearing a story about how one of Gordie's sons was bragging about who his dad was. Basically, when they went up to his parents to introduce them to his friends, his mom said "who are you? Get away from us!"
Another story was when one of his sons was out late the night before with some of the other players. Gordie pulled him aside and told him if you want be like those guys, you'll be done hockey before you're 30. If you want a long career, get your act together.
Don't know how true these stories are since I heard them 3rd party, but if they are true, Mark Howe got in based on his own merits.
I had the priviledge of meeting Gordie and Mark's son, Travis, in Las Vegas during a signing at the NHL awards. Totally down to earth and polite people. Did NOT carry themselves like they were some elite hockey family and that you were some pesky peasant fan who was undeserving to be in their presence.
Pat Kane, however, who was a rookie at the time, showed up in sunglasses on the red carpet and acted like a rockstar, extending both hands up in the air with peace signs. *******. Especially when legends like Beliveau, Larionov, Mikita, Bossy, etc had walked down that same carpet.
meatmancgy
Verified Trader ,
Having spent time with both Gordie and Travis (Mark's son) last September at our Hockey Is Life! fundraiser, I can concur with your comments - they are some of the most down-to-earth, humble people ever. It was an eye-opening experience for me, given Gordie's stature in the hockey world. He was quiet, polite and spoke with EVERY person in the room that night. He was amazing. As for Travis, he has his grandfather's and father's humility - honestly, one of the nicest people I've ever met.
This hits it right on the button.
He was, in fact, an earlier version of Lidstrom.
He was the best puck-moving D-man of his time - and I said moving not carrying. His +/- was so good because, like Lidstrom, he got the puck moving the other direction away from his goalkeeper. He was always out against the other teams #1 line - and still finished +400.
As for Bure - his injuries and the fact that he only played 700 games in the NHL, did not get to 500+ goals and never won a Stanley Cup will most likely keep him out of the HOF.
buyerbrad
Verified Trader
I never made any statements in this thread. I asked 2 questions.