Panini Buys Donruss...

[jasonsportscard]

To be honest though, UD brought this on themselves, if they never would have had the exclusive to begin with, things probably would not be shaping up for them the way they are. loosing basketball, and baseball(potentially) really brings down thier market share with the hobby. On that note, i am glad panini picked up Donruss this will help them in making their basketball cards, and make it a much easier transition into the market. Its not like Donruss is a new company they are well established and that name will help assist them for their coming years

Jason

 

[Triple B]

Why isn't anyone crying foul about the other sports? UD got the hockey and everyone booed (rightfully so, but still booed). Topps gets baseball (presumably), Panini gets basketball. I suppose football is up in the air, but I doubt Panini bought Donruss just for basketball, did they? They can't produce hockey yet, won't be able to do baseball. So we can probably assume Panini will tackle football, too (pun intended).

Heck, with the way it's going non-sports will be the only hobby area with a choice of manufacturers in a couple of years!

Exclusives are a joke. No company is big enough to handle the pains that come with being the only supplier to a massive hobby (although, Panini sure has set themselves up in that manner).

Since it IS heading in that direction, here's hoping Panini and Topps figure out how to better handle what's been given to them.

 

[quincy]

Funny you mention that article, Bruce. I've come to learn a bit more about the licensing situation.

When it comes time to discuss licensing fees, the PA and the Sport Authority decide on how much they want to be paid AND how many products in total. For the sake of argument, let's say basketball decides they want $10 Million and 36 brands over the year. The suitors sit down and figure out if they can do that and remain profitable. In the case of basketball, I think I got the cart before the horse - it wasn't so much that Basketball turned their backs on UD and DLP, so much as the companies said that they couldn't make a go of basketball paying out the money required. Panini stepped in at that point and said that they'll do it.

The licensing offices and in particular the players' associations are relatively unanimous on one point: their licensing fees are not negotiable, nor are they going down. One or two of the PA's (Football sticks in my head for some reason) as having said that their sport will go without licensed trading cards before they'll lower those fees.

Moving right along, Panini in the NHL. Their license currently is for stickers. Period. The NHL is apparently militantly uninterested in offering them any more than that. They are satisfied with the results of the exclusive licensing...although there were rumours of overtures to Topps by the NHL and PA at the All-Star game.

Single-source licensing is a reality in most aspects of sport. One company for jerseys, one for jackets, one for beer mugs, etc, etc. I think it'll take something fairly major to break that notion.

 

[Hama]

Funny you mention that article, Bruce. I've come to learn a bit more about the licensing situation.

When it comes time to discuss licensing fees, the PA and the Sport Authority decide on how much they want to be paid AND how many products in total. For the sake of argument, let's say basketball decides they want $10 Million and 36 brands over the year. The suitors sit down and figure out if they can do that and remain profitable. In the case of basketball, I think I got the cart before the horse - it wasn't so much that Basketball turned their backs on UD and DLP, so much as the companies said that they couldn't make a go of basketball paying out the money required. Panini stepped in at that point and said that they'll do it.

The licensing offices and in particular the players' associations are relatively unanimous on one point: their licensing fees are not negotiable, nor are they going down. One or two of the PA's (Football sticks in my head for some reason) as having said that their sport will go without licensed trading cards before they'll lower those fees.

Moving right along, Panini in the NHL. Their license currently is for stickers. Period. The NHL is apparently militantly uninterested in offering them any more than that. They are satisfied with the results of the exclusive licensing...although there were rumours of overtures to Topps by the NHL and PA at the All-Star game.

Single-source licensing is a reality in most aspects of sport. One company for jerseys, one for jackets, one for beer mugs, etc, etc. I think it'll take something fairly major to break that notion.

Exactly - and no league or PA will be interested in seeing any kind of licensing revenue go down. So at a minimum you'll see a freeze in fees/royalties. If any of the other companies are willing to pony up - you'll see competition. Until then, don't count on it. And non-sports isn't entirely that different - the licensors of a film franchise, they'll look at a single producer - Star Wars has stuck with Topps over the years. But it really isn't that different - Licensors choose who and what they want made with their rights - that's the bottom line

 

[meatmancgy]

Exactly - and no league or PA will be interested in seeing any kind of licensing revenue go down. So at a minimum you'll see a freeze in fees/royalties. If any of the other companies are willing to pony up - you'll see competition. Until then, don't count on it. And non-sports isn't entirely that different - the licensors of a film franchise, they'll look at a single producer - Star Wars has stuck with Topps over the years. But it really isn't that different - Licensors choose who and what they want made with their rights - that's the bottom line

Fair enough, but Star Wars sets come out relatively infrequently, not 25 different sets per year. Even George Lucas isn't THAT greedy.

 

[MGiuseffi1969]

Money talks and BS walks.... Simply put, Panini paid twice as much for the NBA Exclusive as Topps and UD combined. Rumor has it the amount approached $10MM per year.... They feel they can justify this expense because of their existing distribution channels. NBA stars are like Rock Stars in Europe and Asia. Panini has excellent distribution channels across the globe. Now with the purchase of Donruss they get a ready-made team and production center in the US. Also, they also get an NFL license. If they go to the NHL with a similar offer, they might just land an NHL exclusive as well. Donruss did buy the Pacific Brands but have never used them. One thing is certain... The business side of the Hobby is going through a huge overhaul.

 

[Hama]

Fair enough, but Star Wars sets come out relatively infrequently, not 25 different sets per year. Even George Lucas isn't THAT greedy.

Keep in mind that the licensees are mandated by the license to produce x amount of products per year - and at varying levels of price points and types. As I've said on many occasions - if you have an issue, take it up with the NHL and the NHLPA - they're the ones who are greenlighting them. No one is forcing anyone to buy every single product.

And Lucas doesn't need it - whereas the leagues and the PAs will do everything in their power to maximize their revenues - particularly when salary caps are derived from squeezing every single drop of blood from the stone...

 

[cburt]

Interesting discusssion in many ways. I also don't think it is a good idea if UD were to go under. What people hate and complain about is their monopoly. If the playing field were to be levelled a bit, then things would be better in the hobby. Imagine if there were no Young Guns? Or to all those The Cup junkies out there - no The Cup? UD should live on, but it would be nice if ITG were to get their license back, and maybe mix things up a bit with Pannini in there.

 

[quincy]

Actually, a better analogy for Star Wars licensing would be Kenner. That pack of low-talent twits have had the Star Wars license for aeons. It made the company, really. And despite really crappy quality on their figs and toys, they continue to keep the toy license...

Sound like anyone we know?

Mike - Actually, no. They paid what Basketball dictated for the ENTIRE license. UD and Topps paid about half that, each. I do think Panini can potentially realize much better revenues because of their distribution channels, but time will tell.

 

[MGiuseffi1969]

Mike - Actually, no. They paid what Basketball dictated for the ENTIRE license. UD and Topps paid about half that, each. I do think Panini can potentially realize much better revenues because of their distribution channels, but time will tell.

My sources tell me differently but you seem pretty sure of yourself. Do you know the exact figures?

 

[GrimUSMC]

I think the PA and the Sport need to realize that they will price themselves out soon. Theres only so much the consumer will take, and that point is coming soon. Look at the lowered ticket sales. Its because they gouge and gouge and gouge.

Its kind of like GM. Theyre not immune from bad business decisions, and they could doom themselves in time. And I mean that as a sport as a whole. Look at the troubles basketball is finding themselves in. NHL Salaries are goign down, thats a fact. Owners need to get the game back in touch with the fans, and the financial and busniess aspects need to get back in line, because theyre way out of line right now. The trading card issues are just a small example of it.

 

[quincy]

Mike - Unfortunately, no. And as none of the involved parties are required to disclose, I suspect we'll have a hard time finding out exactly how much money is involved.

Grim - Not a bad analogy. But, as I said earlier, the licensing bodies seem to feel that they'll do without the cards before they drop their prices.

 

[Hama]

I think the PA and the Sport need to realize that they will price themselves out soon. Theres only so much the consumer will take, and that point is coming soon. Look at the lowered ticket sales. Its because they gouge and gouge and gouge.

Its kind of like GM. Theyre not immune from bad business decisions, and they could doom themselves in time. And I mean that as a sport as a whole. Look at the troubles basketball is finding themselves in. NHL Salaries are goign down, thats a fact. Owners need to get the game back in touch with the fans, and the financial and busniess aspects need to get back in line, because theyre way out of line right now. The trading card issues are just a small example of it.

But like ticket prices, as long as someone keeps paying the freight - it doesn't matter. If no one does - they're just as willing cut their noses off to spite their face. They also know that the card companies need the league and the PA's license more than league needs them.