Patch wariness, ruining prices?

Hoovermac

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First off, I am sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is really my first time back in the hobby since February. I have noticed that there are a LOT more "is this a fake patch" threads coming up now, and because of that, I am scared to list my card. It is a beautiful 5clr, 9-10 break Hiller HP, but the patch almost seems perfect. Since I know that the patch is 100% real, I have no doubts, but what about someone who doesn't know 100%? Will the weariness of "is this fake" drive off a lot of potential bidders, and therefore, ruin premiums on unreal patches (Flames horse, Blackhawks, Ducks, Predators, etc)?

What do you think? Is fear of a fake patch lowering the premium that can be obtained with selling an amazing patch?
 
For most knowledgable hobbyists, spotting a fake patch on evilbay is somewhat easy, but for some reason these auctions still end up scamming someone.
A prime example was the recent Patrick Kane Cup rookie that was relisted a few times, and had an insane blackhawks patch on it. However, the scammers greed got the best of him/her when they decided to insert an funky-colorod Hawks baseball cap patch in the window of the card, which was obvious as the patch used was obviously not from a game jersey.

If we can all work together and spot stupid auctions like those, the world will be a better place.

Another thing when bidding, if it sounds to good to be true...it usually is!
 
I have laid off buying patches on the bay and from customers coming into the store just so I don't end up with a fake. I think it is hurting the market.
 
Pach Fake Fools

I think what we shall see introduced IF UD and ITG is listening (and Dr. Price is on these boards) is some sort of what to circumvent patch switching.

Take UD Ice. There were a few jersey cards that had the piece stuck between two pieces of plastic... so you couldn't even get at the surface.:| I am no patch switcher, but I can imagine that you need to get at the surface of the patch piece to switch a single color with a 32 color piece.


Here are a few recommendations to those out there that are wary about buying patches based on my experience :dance:


1) Look at the patch in great detail. Some of the faked patches out there aren't even from the right freaking jerseys (remember that strange Sid Crosby patch from the shoulder!). Look for marks around the edges of the patch window. I would imagine that taking out a patch isn't that easy to do. Also look on the edges... perhaps these cards are popped open somehow. I sort of want to take apart a crappy patch card of a ham-n-egger player to see how easy this is!

2) Look at the feedback. Someone with a lot of feedback isn't going to risk a reputation on something stupid like this... or are they? When is the last time you looked at the feedback rating of someone selling on eBay when the patch was super awesome? Ya, thought so.

3) On super limited stuff... look around. Compare your patch to others. Generally with UD, the more common the patch (ie the higher the print run) the better the patch will be. Remember that article on Beckett.com a while back that asked UD why there were so many single color (and white) patches on low numbered items? They said (whomever it was, and I am paraphrasing) that single color patches don't matter on something #/15 because the card is so rare. I beg to differ, but what can you do. So I would be suspicious of something really low numbered that is 15 colors. This is not a rule though...

4) Here is the bad one. Honestly, even if a patch comes from a reputable dealer (who may not have switched the patch) and even if the card looks good... someone out there still has the ability to make this sort of crap happen ("they have the technology"). I am sure you can fake BGS holders... does that stop anyone from paying $10 000 for a BGS 9.5 Gretzky OPC rookie? (Which is on eBay right now, incidentally) No. I am sure you can fake $100 bills. Does that stop anyone from picking one off the road? No.

5) Most fake patches that have been discussed have been from high end product (ie the cup, ultimate etc). Buyer Beware I suppose.


THE SOLUTION! :dance:


1) Document FROM THE FACTORY an image of each patch that is serial numbered.... it take a photo of all 99 Crosby THE CUP rookies when they come out (or came out). If someone has a question, simply go to the UD site and look up the card. I would imagine as sales of their big ticket items fall off UD will have to do something. I look foreword to that happening in the 2013/14 season.

2) Make patch switching as hard as possible. Die cut edges on the patch windows... foil... the UD ice plastic sandwich trick.... some sort of UV ink on the patch... I dunno! Something!

3) When you find someone who switches patches... take them off the market. Yes, it would suck to have to do away with a BGS 9.5 4 color Ovechkin Cup Rookie... but if it is fake then what the hell are you going to do. Charge the guy (or gal) with fraud. Put their names out on the boards. Make little voodoo dolls and stick pins in it. :eek:




... that is my 'off the cuff' rant at 2:30 am after 2 beer. :beer:

'night all!
 
1) Look at the patch in great detail. Some of the faked patches out there aren't even from the right freaking jerseys (remember that strange Sid Crosby patch from the shoulder!). Look for marks around the edges of the patch window. I would imagine that taking out a patch isn't that easy to do. Also look on the edges... perhaps these cards are popped open somehow. I sort of want to take apart a crappy patch card of a ham-n-egger player to see how easy this is!

I suspect this to be the case more times than not these days...given the fact that you see far fewer examples of chipped/torn swatch windows than in the past.

1)Document FROM THE FACTORY an image of each patch that is serial numbered.... it take a photo of all 99 Crosby THE CUP rookies when they come out (or came out). If someone has a question, simply go to the UD site and look up the card. I would imagine as sales of their big ticket items fall off UD will have to do something. I look foreword to that happening in the 2013/14 season.

Actually, this will be happening (at least with The Cup) THIS year :)...

http://hobbyinsider.net/forum/showthread.php?t=203001



In regards to the topic...there's no doubt in my mind that patch altering has had a huge effect on sales over recent years...whether it be a decline in bid amounts at auction, or in cases such as Cole who posted above, people have shied away from bidding on/buying them altogether unless they are 100% comfortable with the seller.

I had this problem in mind back in 05/06 when I started to build a set of The Cup, and it was because of this (along with my overall dislike for eBay), that I decided to leave eBay out of the equation altogether. I ended up only buying/trading for patch/auto RCs from those (primarily HI members) whom I had either a) dealt with previously, but if not, b) known to be well-respected within the hobby. And while it didn't exactly end up being the quickest path to finishing the project...with still no absolute "guarantee" that none of those folks that I dealt with were not duped by the cards' previous owners...I at least felt 1000x more comfortable in the end than I would have otherwise, had I just went willy-nilly, and dealt with a bunch of random schmoes. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the patch market (and overall economy, which is also obviously a factor these days) recovers over time, as I'm sure that one day I will decide to break up and sell off my Cuppers...and it would be nice to know that whenever that time comes, they will still be worth at least a few pennies more than the paper that they're printed on. :cool:

Joshua
 
I don't think we're too far from seeing the grading boom spread from RCs to high end patches as well.

Problem being, if I recall correctly, beckett and other graders have sealed in fake patches before. Apparently they are only responsible for the card authenticity and not the patch or something? I'm not 100% but I seem to recall cases of this...
 
Problem being, if I recall correctly, beckett and other graders have sealed in fake patches before. Apparently they are only responsible for the card authenticity and not the patch or something? I'm not 100% but I seem to recall cases of this...

Thats because they don't actually look at the patch. They grade the card itself and the auto if there is one, but not the patch.
 
Thats because they don't actually look at the patch. They grade the card itself and the auto if there is one, but not the patch.



Actually BGS DOES look at the patch (as you can see below), but only will not grade if they know for sure the patch is fake or has been tampered with, but as we all know, some get through.

skyhaw.jpg
 
Grading has been a tool for patch fakers to provide false authenticity to their creations. I don't think BGS, PSA or whomever look at the patch itself, but more so evidence of tampering. Anything.....anything manufacturers can do to help deter this is welcome to the hobby.
 
Beckett has graded fake patches, an example that was on here awhile ago was this crosby...

Real
05-06CupSidneyCrosbyrealpatch88of99.jpg


Grade Fake
05-06CupSidneyCrosbyfakepatch88of99.jpg
 
Also, when looking for fake patch cards, you need to check the edges and make sure they don't appear to be cut into..

I was talking to a guy on another forum and he was at a trade show where someone showed them how the patch fakers split open the cards and showed them what they need to look for when trying to spot a fake patch..
 

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