Pros and Cons Of E-Pack - Let's discuss!

Not for me, but I don't buy much wax to begin with. It sounds like a lot of time and effort online to obtain the real benefits. E-packs takes away from the offline element of the hobby that I enjoy. Though I appreciate that not everyone has the same access to shows and stores that I do.
 
As for how the LCSs did last year, many did pretty well with the added markup from the McDavid hype. Ideally, I would buy from 1-2 boxes to complete sets and then the rest physical product from my LCS. In Canada the distribution is complete BS though. Locally boxes of S1/S2 are going for $150+ a box, which is just too much of a mark up to justify buying locally. I can normally get some good deals pre-sale, but then the price creeps up too quickly.

I can't speak to this year but i ran a shop a few years ago and the LCS's don't benefit from this at all. Every product (save for 1 or 2 extremely low end ones) had the exact same percentage markup. So unless the LCS bought a ton at release date and sat on it for several weeks then they didn't see any extra profit. The distributors are the ones that jacked the price up and mysteriously found cases a week after release at a $20-30 increase.
 
Personally, I like the owner of my LCS. But I have no loyalty to him as a consumer. Any more than I have loyalty to any other store. Where I can get what is best for me, is where I will go. Plain and simple. LCS's have plenty of other ways to make money as well. Mine has weekly bid board auctions where he has said he generates enough money to pay his rent and utilities alone. Then they have all the singles, not to mention their eBay sales, etc. Losing out on some box sales, sure it's a hit, but not catastrophic. And if it is, it's on them to find ways to generate more revenue. Companies offer sales of their products on their sites all the time. UD is doing nothing wrong by it.

I do however, wish, like many others, that their site was friendlier and allowed purchasing.

Derek K.
 
Personally, I like the owner of my LCS. But I have no loyalty to him as a consumer. Any more than I have loyalty to any other store. Where I can get what is best for me, is where I will go. Plain and simple. LCS's have plenty of other ways to make money as well. Mine has weekly bid board auctions where he has said he generates enough money to pay his rent and utilities alone. Then they have all the singles, not to mention their eBay sales, etc. Losing out on some box sales, sure it's a hit, but not catastrophic. And if it is, it's on them to find ways to generate more revenue. Companies offer sales of their products on their sites all the time. UD is doing nothing wrong by it.

I do however, wish, like many others, that their site was friendlier and allowed purchasing.

Derek K.

I'm just curious - do you expect your LCS to have any loyalty to you?
 
I'm just curious - do you expect your LCS to have any loyalty to you?

No, I don't really. But I don't live in a hockey market. So my PC cards don't flow through his shop. Perhaps, I'd feel different if I was in a bigger market, but probably not. But where we live, what we collect, how we collect, all factor in to how we feel about e-pack, and the hobby in general. That was just my opinion.

I just don't see how UD offering a direct product from their site, is any different than other companies who sell in stores, and also offer product directly. It's a business environment.

Derek K.
 
I can't speak to this year but i ran a shop a few years ago and the LCS's don't benefit from this at all. Every product (save for 1 or 2 extremely low end ones) had the exact same percentage markup. So unless the LCS bought a ton at release date and sat on it for several weeks then they didn't see any extra profit. The distributors are the ones that jacked the price up and mysteriously found cases a week after release at a $20-30 increase.

So it's the distributors who are making out like bandits?

Such an outdated system. There is absolutely no reason to have wholesale distributors in the days of electronic sales. The stores should be able to order directly from the source. It would do so much for the hobby to have more affordable product, particularly in Canada. It really irks me to see $85 USD a box in the USA and then see $150 CAD a box in Canada for series 1/2.

But yes, as far as I can see my LCS does only put in one order at the beginning and then holds stuff back.
 
So it's the distributors who are making out like bandits?

Such an outdated system. There is absolutely no reason to have wholesale distributors in the days of electronic sales. The stores should be able to order directly from the source. It would do so much for the hobby to have more affordable product, particularly in Canada. It really irks me to see $85 USD a box in the USA and then see $150 CAD a box in Canada for series 1/2.

But yes, as far as I can see my LCS does only put in one order at the beginning and then holds stuff back.

Take it a step further. Why not just let the customer order directly from Upper Deck?

Why do I as the customer have to subsidize the cost of a brick and mortar operation to purchase a box of cards for $150US instead of $110?

Its very similar to Tesla selling cars directly to the customer and cutting out car dealerships entirely.
 
Because Upper Deck can barely tie its own shoes.
They handle redemptions poolyr, I can only imagine how they handle all the orders from everyone directly.

I've had zero issues with e-pack functionality outside of slow loading speed. I've never had cards disappear from "my collection" and COMC/UD always sends my orders out correctly.

Upper Deck could pass off the supply chain and sell via Amazon and it would be cost savings for everyone involved. I think the only reason they haven't done this yet is because they can force their wholesale customers to purchase case after case of mediocre product in order to get high end product.
 
Take it a step further. Why not just let the customer order directly from Upper Deck?

This is the next step.

Topps is doing it with "Topps NOW!" and Panini is doing it. Brian Price is doing it with his President's Choice cards.

Topps has availability limits where a certain card may only be available for 24 hours and then THAT'S IT. Whatever is ordered is printed and then the numbers are released. The cool thing about that is that even the least desirable cards within that 24 hour window will be extremely limited because not too many people ordered it.

If there is going to be any type of shift in how the hobby works, it'll be direct ordering. I'd love to see it as I'm sick of the bull**** games by distributors. I'd even like to see it set up where UD allowed the LCS to order exclusive cards for them to sell to their customers (sort of like Topps' old "Home Team Advantage" program).
 
Because Upper Deck can barely tie its own shoes.
They handle redemptions poolyr, I can only imagine how they handle all the orders from everyone directly.

Upper Deck does sell retail already online. The pricing isn't great. Same as E-pack, they are holding more profits for themselves.
 
As for how the LCSs did last year, many did pretty well with the added markup from the McDavid hype. Ideally, I would buy from 1-2 boxes to complete sets and then the rest physical product from my LCS. In Canada the distribution is complete BS though. Locally boxes of S1/S2 are going for $150+ a box, which is just too much of a mark up to justify buying locally. I can normally get some good deals pre-sale, but then the price creeps up too quickly.

Actually, 15/16 was not that great of a year at all for most LCSs as the margins on wax are so low and with the distributors dictating pricing, margins were even lower - and the supporting products for,the most part were poor sellers (Black. portraits, Contours, ICE, etc... All of which take up any UD1 and UD2 profits).

I would estimate so far this year, most card shops are up considerably from last year - dispite the distributors holding products hostage. And it is not just hockey.. Any hot product magically has conditions or allocations or somehow dries up - for a couple days and then reappears at new pricing.

A bit of a hi-jack but that comment made me laugh. Card shops have to look at the year through the lense of all products
 
There are a number of pros with ePack, such as base cards being relevant, instant and free trades, and visibility to products some collectors might otherwise ignore.

But overall the cons are so huge that they've made trading on ePack a huge, annoying chore.

Some items are overpriced and almost never see a price drop (15-16 MVP still at $2.50 US a pack, really?!?).

The site is overall very slow, especially when a new product is released.

The fact that there is no ePack app, and that the experience is EXTREMELY clunky on mobile, is even more perplexing considering their objective of reaching out to younger collectors.

And let's not even begin talking about their chat and message service, which are more reminiscent of mIRC and the Internet from the late 90s than anything else.

There's also a problem with a lot of traders treating your cards like trash (even though they want them in a trade), while treating their scrub YGs like it's the Holy Grail. The lowball offers I often receive for mid-end or high-end items - offers which to boot, usually include none of my stated interests or items from my wishlist - make me want to quit ePack entirely.

Then there's the achievements. Some of them are great, others simply do not make sense. I mean, who in their right mind, unless they had the money to waste, would redeem a complete set of UD1 for an achievement card selling for less than the Matthews YG alone?

There's also the fact that there's no point or money system to help in trades or to reward consumers.

The worst part about ePack, though, is working on big trades involving various sets, and scrolling through people's large collections in general. It...takes...FOREVER. Since, in the left-hand menu, there is no checkbox that would allow you to select multiple sets or items at the same time, you are stuck constantly going back and forth to find the items you seek. If I want to consult a collector's entire collection of, say, UD1 Shining Stars, without having to scroll through all his base cards, Foils, Canvas and so on, I have to : 1) click on the list of all inserts; 2) scroll through a list of all possible sets owned by the collector and click on SS Left Wingers; 3) look at SS LW then click back; 4) scroll down the list again to find SS Centers; 5) after consulting, clicking back again; 6) scroll down AGAIN to find SS Goalies and click on goalies. And that doesn't even include SS Royal Blue or Achievements.

This serious deficiency also affects how quickly you can do trades. If I want to trade for 100 base cards of 9 different players, there's no box that allows me to say I want X number of each base card. Instead, I have to select the set from the left-hand menu, scroll to find the card (or search for player's name), click on the card which will open another window showing me a copy for EVERY base card, and select each one individually. Then come out, scroll again to find the next player, and so on (unless taking only one copy of said base card, in which case I only have to check a box). Now imagine if I'm trading for 100 base cards from 3 different sets, and you get a clue of the headache you'll get.

Well, that's my huge rant about ePack.
 
Then there's the achievements. Some of them are great, others simply do not make sense. I mean, who in their right mind, unless they had the money to waste, would redeem a complete set of UD1 for an achievement card selling for less than the Matthews YG alone?

Its not a redemption its an award . Your entire set is locked until a set date then you can no longer get the award cards and your set is released back to you.

I do agree with you and others to slow, and user interface needs huge overhaul

There is a shortcut to for the multiple card selection once you "go into" 1 card select a card and then "Return to Marketplace" and you can multi click your brain out.

 
Its not a redemption its an award . Your entire set is locked until a set date then you can no longer get the award cards and your set is released back to you.

I do agree with you and others to slow, and user interface needs huge overhaul

There is a shortcut to for the multiple card selection once you "go into" 1 card select a card and then "Return to Marketplace" and you can multi click your brain out.


Well that part about Achievements finally makes sense. I thought they all worked like the smaller sets such as Shining Stars.

I get the multiclick thing, but it would've made much more sense to add a quantity selection box for non-transferable cards (which are by default all exactly the same since they don't physically exist), thus cutting needless loading time and clicking.
 
And let's not even begin talking about their chat and message service, which are more reminiscent of mIRC and the Internet from the late 90s than anything else.

Don't you diss mIRC! I still go there to play trivia occasionally, lol. Man, I wish #acro was still around.
 
The interface is out of control bad and embarrassing. The worst part about the chat, is the duplicate message filter. It doesn't allow you to use the same word more than once, so it makes it impossible to actually discuss a topic. The lag on the website is something I haven't seen in a decade.

Going on the E-Pack website really is like being transported back to the late 90s....and yes I miss IRC. No other platform since has been so successful at having little communities.
 
I will say that if UD doesn't upgrade the interface its going to be tough for them to compete with breakers who can sell boxes and open immediately on camera for you. The only leg up it has on that scenario is trading.
 
I will say that if UD doesn't upgrade the interface its going to be tough for them to compete with breakers who can sell boxes and open immediately on camera for you. The only leg up it has on that scenario is trading.

The current model of paying per card for shipping is also pretty bad.

E pack is great for finishing off a set, as it's still cheaper than paying to ship individual card from all over. However, if you're looking at buying a bunch of cards, E Pack is not the way to go.

I'll definitely buy a box or two of Series 1/2 to finish off YGs sets, but opening a full case on E Pack and then having to pay to ship potentially hundreds of cards would be a real kick in the nuts.
 
I have read threads like these in the past and this is the most in depth one, but my opinion stays the same. It seems like those that are criticizing e packs are saying the same kind of thing and some goes for the people that are saying it's a good thing. My opinion is that the only reason to do anything online regarding the hobby is if you do not have access to an LCS or if the prices at your LCS are overboard and online is a cheaper alternative.

The one positive that I have read in this thread is that it allow collectors to trade with others around the world and it is that kind of interaction that will keep the hobby alive. Obvious cons are that big cards are being inserted into these packs which make it more difficult for LCS customers to pull them in their packs and boxes that they purchase. Overall is it good for the hobby? I don't know. The hobby has been changing over the past few years with online group breaking taking the hobby by storm, but all in all I think the in person interaction between collectors is what this hobby needs more of and not spending hours a day in front of a computer. There is also the health aspect of course that no one has mentioned.
 

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