Razor/UD KILLING Non-Sports...

[bjork73]

Why am I not surprised UD possibly/probably has hands in this?

*rolling Shop At Home footage of UD backdooring "rare" insert sets in my head*

Oh yeah, that's right Of course, I think it's a bit better way to go about it letting collectors in on the bounty upfront, but I still think it's more than a bit distasteful for Razor/UD to sabotage the perceived scarcity (and collectible value) of past products.

 

[meatmancgy]

Here's the word, from the horse's mouth.

Caplan had so many left over autos in comparison to other companies because he said "They're obviously smarter than I am". Essentially he would print say 110 cards for actors to sign (these are my numbers, but illustrate the point) back in the day; 100 for packs, 10 for CS reasons. He paid the actors for them. As the market started to decline, he found the actors still wanted to sign the 110 cards, and he didn't want to lose them as signatories, so kept doing that, even though the market was say 50-60 autos; so using the 10 for CS, he was leftover with 50 extras. That is why there were SO many autos uncirculated, and why Razor has them all.

I asked him if the ~50,000 we figured out were the lot of them... he paused and said "there are plenty more", but wouldn't go into details. He also said the rumours of the Angelina Jolie autos are false - he had NONE leftover.

As for McWilliam & Gray... he asked me not to say what he told me, but hinted that the MLB memo earlier was true. He also said a few other things I can't repeat here, due to his request not to.

By the way, he never wanted Razor to get the cards. He sold to a guy he knew well and asked him not to put them in Razor's or UD's hands... that guy then apparently flipped them to Razor.

That's my news.

B.

 

[weasel-king]

Interesting details there, Bruce. I appreciate you posting this!

 

[Triple B]

Thanks Bruce...like I said, the market for Inkworks cards is now in the crapper. Folks can enjoy picking up some great autographs for dirt, but those who paid good money for supposedly scarce cards are left holding the bag.

Long live Rittenhouse Archives.

 

[MIKEYSLEAFS]

Thanks Bruce...like I said, the market for Inkworks cards is now in the crapper. Folks can enjoy picking up some great autographs for dirt, but those who paid good money for supposedly scarce cards are left holding the bag.

Long live Rittenhouse Archives.

don't kid yourself about rittenhouse either ryan,they never release numbers either, limited =200-500 thats a large span ,very limited is up to 200,so is it 30 i wouldn't count on it,is it closer to 200 more likely,don't get me wrong love the work rittenhouse does,big fan of the bond line but one company is no different then the other when it comes to scarcity,just in this case it took a little longer for the inkwork autos to get out into circulation but there were made way before now,but yes i can see how people were duped into thinking wow what a hard card to get,not knowing there was 50 at the factory just waiting to get out on the market,i just wish a company would just state how many are produced,number the things and be done with it,it would be the honest thing to do,just like the downey auto you and i bought,number it and we would know how many,don't number it and we have no idea how many there is,they say 250 are you gonna bet your house on it,i know i wouldn't

 

[meatmancgy]

Actually, Rittenhouse confirmed they do NOT hold much in inventory, other than some for CS reasons, and were themselves floored at the amount of autos Inkworks had available. I would suggested RA actually packs out the majority of their stock. What's the point of keeping it? That's $$ sitting in a cabinet somewhere, when it could be out there in the public providing you a return.

 

[MIKEYSLEAFS]

Actually, Rittenhouse confirmed they do NOT hold much in inventory, other than some for CS reasons, and were themselves floored at the amount of autos Inkworks had available. I would suggested RA actually packs out the majority of their stock. What's the point of keeping it? That's $$ sitting in a cabinet somewhere, when it could be out there in the public providing you a return.

yes agreed,thats my point,rittenhouse makes 200 autos packs them all out(or we are told they are) inkworks makes 200 packs out 100 and dupes everyone thinking its limited and takes the other 100 and instead of destroying them,sells them and pays debts with them,after all is said 200 is 200,just inkworks was more deceiving

 

[meatmancgy]

yes agreed,thats my point,rittenhouse makes 200 autos packs them all out(or we are told they are) inkworks makes 200 packs out 100 and dupes everyone thinking its limited and takes the other 100 and instead of destroying them,sells them and pays debts with them,after all is said 200 is 200,just inkworks was more deceiving

I think you missed the point... if 200 is what is now "required" by NS enthusiasts, Inkworks was getting 300 signed, because that is what the actors were used to and wanted to maintain. Capische?

 

[MIKEYSLEAFS]

another instance would be the twilight zone a15 elizabeth allen auto card,it was a contest winning auto card,you had to win the card in a contest that was offered in series 1,hard card to come by for years,value was super crazy,then 3 series later for series 4 its a 6 case inncentive,same card,was it right to offer it up to collectors instead of destroying them,maybe,completed more sets,but boy did it inflate the price and then de-flated it once they were offered again,one time occurance but it did happen in the rittenhouse card business,smaller scale i know but there is no innocent company ,inkworks just did the bigger boo-boo and god bless them because i am loving the ink vault

 

[MIKEYSLEAFS]

I think you missed the point... if 200 is what is now "required" by NS enthusiasts, Inkworks was getting 300 signed, because that is what the actors were used to and wanted to maintain. Capische?

then rittenhouse would also get the 300 because thats what the actors were used to and wanted to maintain and 300 is 300 capische
only difference inkworks was a 1 auto a box company and rittenhouse to get rid of the inventory would offer collectors 2 autos
right or wrong they made the same number 200 is 200,300 is 300,500 is 500
rittenhouse just gets them out in there packs and on to the market the way they should get there,inkworks held back a whack because they didn't want a ton of boxes out there

 

[Triple B]

then rittenhouse would also get the 300 because thats what the actors were used to and wanted to maintain and 300 is 300 capische
only difference inkworks was a 1 auto a box company and rittenhouse to get rid of the inventory would offer collectors 2 autos
right or wrong they made the same number 200 is 200,300 is 300,500 is 500
rittenhouse just gets them out in there packs and on to the market the way they should get there,inkworks held back a whack because they didn't want a ton of boxes out there

I don't know about that...Rittenhouse seems to deal with the actors on a different level. I don't think the actors dictate what RA does as it appears that's what was happening with Inkworks. "If you don't want to sign, we won't include you, but such and such an actor has agreed to sign for us" would be soothing to a few egos, although I do not know what RA's approach is.

I also don't think it was about the boxes as much as it was about appeasing actors so to keep them signing. Pack a specific number of autos out and then hoard the rest as waste...waste meaning there was no specific plan for them anyways as they weren't being packed out and not being offered in any other form.

RA numbers their boxes and I can say that in my dealings with Steve Charendoff, they certainly do not have an abundance of autos on hand. Inkworks seems to have gotten themselves in a neverending cycle of "here's 110, but we only need 40" and then not really knowing what to do with the remaining 70. Sad that they never thought to seed the autos into the products without notice. Would have been a nice bonus for their collector base and would have not made them look this bad in the end.

Regardless, fun breaks for all, but not good for values across the board for Inkworks cards.

 

[MIKEYSLEAFS]

I don't know about that...Rittenhouse seems to deal with the actors on a different level. I don't think the actors dictate what RA does as it appears that's what was happening with Inkworks. "If you don't want to sign, we won't include you, but such and such an actor has agreed to sign for us" would be soothing to a few egos, although I do not know what RA's approach is.

I also don't think it was about the boxes as much as it was about appeasing actors so to keep them signing. Pack a specific number of autos out and then hoard the rest as waste...waste meaning there was no specific plan for them anyways as they weren't being packed out and not being offered in any other form.

RA numbers their boxes and I can say that in my dealings with Steve Charendoff, they certainly do not have an abundance of autos on hand. Inkworks seems to have gotten themselves in a neverending cycle of "here's 110, but we only need 40" and then not really knowing what to do with the remaining 70. Sad that they never thought to seed the autos into the products without notice. Would have been a nice bonus for their collector base and would have not made them look this bad in the end.

Regardless, fun breaks for all, but not good for values across the board for Inkworks cards.

agreed,steve seems to run the way he wants too,and has passed on many actors whether its terms or money.lets face it he does a bang up job on every product he produces,he has passion for what he creates in every set,

ryan just don't get discouraged about the inkworks auto's buy now and get'um cheap:dance:

 

[meatmancgy]

at the end of the day, it's a win/win for everyone involved EXCEPT those people who paid the $$ early to get the cards. for those of us who didn't, we can get some great autos cheap... inkworks got to sell some stock to help bring down their debt... razor made a few bucks by getting the cards out to the public and non-sports got a shot in the arm by enticing some sports-only stores to stock the products, who in turn made a few $$ themselves when they sold out.

 

[woozle]

I have been collecting non sports and sports auto's since 1996.....Ever since I have started I would see cards come out of brand new products and sell for huge bucks right away.....One time I even remember selling a Grant Hill Super patch card /25 for 1400!!! Now you can buy that card for 150 bucks.....Point is just aboot EVERYTHING comes down in price after it is released......This whole Razor thing to me is great, all the high end auto's that I have collected have not really come down in value......but alot of the lower end auto's are selling for a buck or two......Take Katey Segal, I just bought her auto hard signed for 22 bucks, and yet another Ozzy for 85 bucks......A few years ago I was buying Ozzy's @ 100 and I bought a Katey for 55.....So although the Katey Segal had dropped alot in price, the Ozzy stayed pretty much the same.....Iam never planning on selling them anyways, and plus I have 20 Ozzy Auto's!!!......Hopefully the prices will be cheap for the next year or two, but after that they will all go up in price!