Stay away from ePack.

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supercec

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Sorry, I haven't been active on this site much, but I have recently gotten about 1,500 dollars into ePack. I had an issue with a MVP Pacific redemption set. The card I pulled had a picture of Ritchie on the front and was called Pacific Redemptions. No indication that it was a multiple card set was available on the ePack site, and I didn't collect too much physical MVP so I wasn't aware that it was 8 cards that included a McDavid.

I ended up trading it for a about $10 dollars worth of cards, and found out about 12 hours later by chance when someone posted on the form. I talked to the person I traded with who claimed he was not aware of it either and that he had already traded it.

So I contacted ePack about this issue as a number of people on the site had said that also didn't know what that card was.

First response from UD:

Thank you for your submission. We do apologize about any confusion, but yes it was a Pacific Division Rookie Pack. Which includes a MVP base rookie card for each Pacific Division team.

/end

So I politely told them that I was out about 100 dollars in value in this card because of this confusion and I should be compensated. It took them almost 3 days to get back

second response:

All of the MVP Division Rookie Redemptions say, This card may be redeemed for one set of eight pacific division rookie cards. Trades are all final, as you see below the card clearly states a set of 8 Pacific Division Rookie cards:


http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qj8AAOSwHnFVx5wS/s-l300.jpg



Thank You,
 
The image is a picture of the redemption card. UDs argument is that this card clearly shows it is a redemption therefore I should have been aware. Fair enough, however, that is not what I pulled. The card I pulled as stated above was a Nick Ritchie with the title Pacific Redemption. So I sent them back and informed them. They told me to send a picture which I though strange because they can check the card as plain as day on there own. Anyways, I did and I got this response back on Monday.

fourth response: (third only asked for the picture)

Hello,



We have been told that’s what the packaging looks like for all MVP division rookie redemption pack set. Like you have stated in your original submission you traded a Pacific Division Rookies Pack. A pack does contain multiple items/cards, unfortunately all trades are final.

There is a checklist on our Upper Deck website that states it’s for Pacific Division, on the Card Board Connections website it goes into more detail to which players are specifically in the packs and states there is multiple players and list the name of each individual player in it.

/end

In my original submission, I did say pack, but I didn't get that terminology from the site, I used that word myself after learning about the nature of it. On top of that, I am now expected to go to third party sites in order to get information about their products?

I sent them back, telling them above and got this response a few hours ago.

final response:

Unfortunately like we have stated all trades are final. You have written below that is says Pacific Redemptions Pacific Division, which means the whole division. In the picture it shows Nick Ritchie and behind it you can see cards because the stack is staggered and it is sealed in a plastic wrapping. If it was an individual card it would not be in a plastic wrapping and would state what type of individual card it would be and specific player name.

We are sorry you feel you’ve been misled but it does clearly say Pacific Division not any individual player. At this time we will not be able to assist in this matter.

OK, so to recap:

1. They apologized for the confusion
2. They claimed I should have been able to read the title of the card and sent me a totally different picture. The actual picture had no indication whatsoever
3. They said it used the word pack which implies multiple cards. When that word is never used except by me when discussing with them.
4. They said since it had the word Pacific it implied every team

Like holy crap. How many times can you backtrack on your story. I have never received such poor customer service in my life.

Unfortunately, other than sell off my collection there is not much I can do even if I try a refund and win it would only be for one pack I believe valued at about 2.50.

Sorry for the rant, but I want others to know what they are getting into if they go deep into ePack. The company doesn't put any effort into their customer service and if you have any problems, don't expect to receive any help in resolving them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is somewhat inappropriate.

We've all made moves that we regret. I eagerly snapped up a Habs Artifacts redemption a couple months ago because it was a great price, thinking it was the 15-16 version and thus Zach Fucale. Well it was the 14-15 edition, and that's Jiri Sekac. It was my own doing for jumping without taking a closer look. I'm not going to email Upper Deck and say, "Hey, the card I traded for and posted into the redemption system, I really thought it was the 15-16 edition and I was getting a Zach Fucale. Can you upgrade that for me?" Like, that's not gonna happen. LOL
 
This is a bit of a stretch,
If you presented that card to a dealer at a show or to joe shmo at a trade night there are odds that the same thing would've happened.
Could've also happened if you listed it on ebay, a bin was hit and you mailed it out.

The key is to know what you have before you deal it.

These things have happened to all us, research before you sell or trade.
 
Can you post a picture of the actual "card" you traded? It sure sounds to me like you didn't realize what you had and traded it away accidentally.

I made a similar mistake with MVP. I pulled the Mcdavid redemption and then pulled the Pacific Rookie redemption. Because McDavid was a redemption of his own, I thought he wouldn't be included in the Pacific set so I sold it for less than it was worth. Once I realized my mistake, I did not send Upper Deck a message telling them they should have mentioned he'd be part of that set. I simply chalked it up as an error on my part and moved on.
 
1McwRQ8.png

DgBWTth.png



This is what the redemption looks like on ePack.



It's not the ePack platform's fault that you made a mistake.
 
Nichushkin said:
1McwRQ8.png

DgBWTth.png



This is what the redemption looks like on ePack.



It's not the ePack platform's fault that you made a mistake.
Click to expand...

Nowhere does it say it's just a Nick Ritchie card. It clearly shows that this is a "pack" and when you flip to the back, you see it's Jared McCann so clearly this was a mistake by the OP
 
frankiefives said:
Nowhere does it say it's just a Nick Ritchie card. It clearly shows that this is a "pack" and when you flip to the back, you see it's Jared McCann so clearly this was a mistake by the OP
Click to expand...

Man, Hobby Insider needs a "like" button.



I've never understood the allure of ePacks, much less the business behind it. I personally think it's destroying the hobby. (Only MY opinion, and it's a harsh one, of course) I just don't get the excitement of spending money & getting nothing physical in return for it. You're throwing money away on absolutely nothing. Then when you do want the tangible card, you have to pay PER CARD as well as shipping. Excuse me? I have to pay for something that I've already bought? No thanks. You're buying lottery tickets that someone else is scratching and then paying them to scratch it. (Bad analogy) Just like social media, ePack is taking away the physical contact of member-to-member trading. All it is is instant gratification to the gimme gimme now generation.

You claim you didn't know what it was. Don't you think you would have if it was physically and tangibly in your hands? I'm just simply saying, know what you're spending your money on. Far too many times have I seen breaks when people are like "What can you pull outta here?" "What year is this?" "Why are there 12/13 hits in a 13/14 UD product?" "What rookies can you pull out of 2008/09 SPA?" Maybe it's because I try to be as meticulous in my collecting as possible, but these are all answers that I can rattle off in my sleep because I have researched the products before-hand.

Nothing else needs to be said that hasn't already. I personally find no fault in UD's product or how they conducted their business. While I don't necessarily think the customer service was top notch (but not that it was bad either, as they were simply sticking to their guns, and have every right to) I don't think it's out of the question that they were bluntly stating their policies.

Hard lesson to learn. This is the hobby equivalent of suing McDonald's for spilling their hot coffee on your hands. Not their fault. And ePacks still destroy the hobby.
 
bqaggie said:
Man, Hobby Insider needs a "like" button.



I've never understood the allure of ePacks, much less the business behind it. I personally think it's destroying the hobby. (Only MY opinion, and it's a harsh one, of course) I just don't get the excitement of spending money & getting nothing physical in return for it. You're throwing money away on absolutely nothing. Then when you do want the tangible card, you have to pay PER CARD as well as shipping. Excuse me? I have to pay for something that I've already bought? No thanks. You're buying lottery tickets that someone else is scratching and then paying them to scratch it. (Bad analogy) Just like social media, ePack is taking away the physical contact of member-to-member trading. All it is is instant gratification to the gimme gimme now generation.
Click to expand...

ePack is instant. I can open a box, trade everything I couldn't care less for (hello inserts) and cash out with cards that I want (hello silver foil young guns).

Real life, I live an hour away from a card shop and the inserts that I pull get put in a box and forgotten about.

It's a lot easier to salvage a bad box on ePack than a bad box in real life.
 
Not a fan of ePacks as I like physical cards in hand. And inserts? ePack killed the value of insert and young guns with one fellow swoop. Unless they are higher end ones. They are all selling pennies on the dollar once comc gets their cut.
 
Not a fun situation at all. I feel your pain, and I think us collectors have been in similar situations at times. I think UD should have done a better job differentiating these extra Pacific Packs in MVP. Although I wouldn't expect them to do anything about this deal you made, I do think this will be a leaning experience for them moving forward, especially of their designs for EPack releases do include some extra content, they will need to make it more clear to the collector that they've pulled something different. Could someone have figured it out on their own from the pics/scans available? Sure, but I hear what you're saying, and especially on the EPack channel sometimes these things are going to happen, and that's unfortunate part of this scenario. Upper Deck is trying a lot of new things at one time (new electronic platform, online products, which can also includes some "surprise" pulls to keep collectors coming back for EPack) and sometimes these extra details cannot be excecuted in time. It happens, unfortunately. It's a learning process for both sides here. As collectors, we need to be extra careful on EPack, knowing what we pull can be easily flipped in a few clicks, and UD needs to take that into consideration and clearly need to differentiate their special hits better, especially if they know it will be a product includes on EPack, or just run as a EPack Exclusive that will be ripped/flipped be many now EPack enthusiasts.

Best of luck next time, hoping things work out better next time.
 
I also think that you really can't blame Upper Deck for it. It is not their fault if you decide to trade away something you were supposed to know what it is and especially if you didn't first research what it is.

Definitely you can't draw a conclusion "rushed and made a bad trade -> hopefully no-one buys the product".
 
bqaggie said:
Man, Hobby Insider needs a "like" button.



I've never understood the allure of ePacks, much less the business behind it. I personally think it's destroying the hobby. (Only MY opinion, and it's a harsh one, of course) I just don't get the excitement of spending money & getting nothing physical in return for it. You're throwing money away on absolutely nothing. Then when you do want the tangible card, you have to pay PER CARD as well as shipping. Excuse me? I have to pay for something that I've already bought? No thanks. You're buying lottery tickets that someone else is scratching and then paying them to scratch it. (Bad analogy) Just like social media, ePack is taking away the physical contact of member-to-member trading. All it is is instant gratification to the gimme gimme now generation.

You claim you didn't know what it was. Don't you think you would have if it was physically and tangibly in your hands? I'm just simply saying, know what you're spending your money on. Far too many times have I seen breaks when people are like "What can you pull outta here?" "What year is this?" "Why are there 12/13 hits in a 13/14 UD product?" "What rookies can you pull out of 2008/09 SPA?" Maybe it's because I try to be as meticulous in my collecting as possible, but these are all answers that I can rattle off in my sleep because I have researched the products before-hand.

Nothing else needs to be said that hasn't already. I personally find no fault in UD's product or how they conducted their business. While I don't necessarily think the customer service was top notch (but not that it was bad either, as they were simply sticking to their guns, and have every right to) I don't think it's out of the question that they were bluntly stating their policies.

Hard lesson to learn. This is the hobby equivalent of suing McDonald's for spilling their hot coffee on your hands. Not their fault. And ePacks still destroy the hobby.
Click to expand...

The hobby was destroyed when mass group breaking started happening in 2010 causing the market to be flooded with singles no one wants and sending secondary market values to rock bottom. Epacks is just beating a dead horse so UD can make more money.
 
guy_hobby said:
The hobby was destroyed when mass group breaking started happening in 2010 causing the market to be flooded with singles no one wants and sending secondary market values to rock bottom. Epacks is just beating a dead horse so UD can make more money.
Click to expand...

You gotta rememeber though, as a company- making more money is their objective... Not defending UD- but as long as their products are selling, they are happy.
 
Considering UD is in this to make money, it would have been in their best interest to better describe what exactly was being pulled. Little effort would have been required to ensure the buyer was aware of what he had when it was pulled. Now they've lost at least one vocal customer, and who knows how many other silent ones who had a similar issue.

In the end, yes, there is blame with the person pulling the pack and moving it without knowing what it was, but considering you can't hold it in your hand, why not give a little bit better description of what it was?

Cory
 
I pulled three different MVP redemption packs in my boxes early on in the ePack "experiment".

The first dead giveaway that I had something on my hands was that the goal light went off when the item was "hit" - I did some research and found that the redemption packs were on COMC, eBay and listed in Beckett - I thought at the time that a "gang scan" of all of the cards involved would have been very helpful - in a sense, they leave it up to the user to be/make themselves aware of what they've got.

The concerning fact for me is that there are SLEWS of people on ePack who are constantly trolling the site in a blatant attempt to take advantage of people.

Since ePack is directly linked to COMC, I would like to see ePack hits include current pricing from that site in an effort to eliminate the low ball shenanigans that are prevalent, and unfortunate situations like the one described by the OP.
 
As a frequent flyer on epack, I have to say that I've never seen a site where to main goal of the participants is to take advantage of each other. I check the price of every card...the ones I give and the ones I get... before I click "accept" on a trade.
 
In fairness to the OP, given that these are redeemed, would it not have made more sense for UD to have a scan of each card from the pack added to his inventory rather than this pack? It would be one thing if they still scanned the redemption card but why have a scan of a pack? Why should somebody have to trade the entire pack rather than having the option of trading each individual card in it? However, I agree with the majority that at the end of the day it's your responsibility to research what you have. I don't think UD has done anything wrong but there is more they could have done given the dynamics of the E-pack system.
 
bqaggie said:
Hard lesson to learn. This is the hobby equivalent of suing McDonald's for spilling their hot coffee on your hands. Not their fault. And ePacks still destroy the hobby.
Click to expand...

I'm going to agree with almost everything you said except the last. You need to watch the documentary "Hot Coffee" and educate yourself about what actually happened in the original case and what happens in most cases like that. You might be shocked.
 

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