Nick2317
Svatos's Only fan,
Contact COMC on twitter or through the site
Stolen Cards
- Thread starter Matches
- Start date
capsfan30
Verified Trader,
So Slab Sharks willingly and knowingly sold stolen goods? I'm not sure about in Canada but that's a felony in the USA.
Matches
Verified Trader,
I did contact COMC by email and they said that the RCMP would have be the ones to have to request the information regarding the cards and the seller, hopefully that happens and they cooperate.
The owner is a lawyer and he quoted something called "Bonafide First Purchaser for Value, Without Notice"and if he wasn't the one who stole them than they were legally his and he wanted a police report to take the cards down. The RCMP don't give out police reports as per their policy, only the RCMP file #, which I provided to him.
I didn't even ask that the cards be returned only for the auctions to be placed on hold pending the investigation. I was told that my claim that the cards were stolen could not taken at face value without proof, such as a police report. He wouldn't take my word for it, but he took the word of the seller, that they didn't steal them.
I had to watch several of my cards that he had listed, including my Scott/Rob Niedermayer Cup Dual Shield sell. The Dual Shield sold for just under $700.
At one point, I thought of buying all the cards and upon receipt of them, turn them over to the RCMP as evidence and file a Paypal claim that I was sold stolen property and that they were turned over as evidence to the RCMP. But I thought would that actually improve the situation or just make it worse.
My time spent at treatment has helped me greatly with this situation, if this had happened before the treatment I don't know where I would be right now. Perhaps living on the streets or out of my truck, continually drinking to cope with my troubles and probably getting into even more trouble law wise.
If any of you are struggling reach out to those around you for support, don't be afraid of the shame and guilt that I struggled with and as many others do with mental health and addictions. The biggest advocate you have in your life is YOU. You know what you want, you know what is best for you and you deserve it, fight for it.
Anyone can feel to reach out to me through PM if they need a little extra support. I can always offer up to share my experiences and provide some resources that I have found helpful and can help anyone to achieve the life they truly want to live.
Most of your post is just terrible ****ty things. This stuff here? Best thing I read. Good for you. GLAD for you. And I'll stand with you on this: Need help? I'm here.
frankiefives
Verified Trader,
I'll echo this sentiment. Happy to hear you're doing better. Always available to anyone who needs an ear.
oilfan10
Verified Trader,
I'm not a lawyer, so the whole "Bonafide First Purchaser for Value, Without Notice" was something I wanted to look up. If there is a lawyer here, could someone please explain how this qualification applies?
"Valuable consideration: The purchaser must have provided valuable consideration in exchange for the property, such as money or other assets."
Since SlabSharks is a consignment company, are they offering money or assets in exchange for the the stolen property outside of the consignment fees after the item is sold? Does providing a cash advance work around this, or did they simply buy the cards outright and sold it themselves? Because right now, I'm failing to see how exactly title was transferred to SlabSharks which would legally make the goods their own.
Since the owner of SlabSharks is a lawyer, he definitely knows more about this and would know any potential risks of this than I would, but it all feels very scummy to me and I'd be hesitant to consign with them in the future.
"Valuable consideration: The purchaser must have provided valuable consideration in exchange for the property, such as money or other assets."
Since SlabSharks is a consignment company, are they offering money or assets in exchange for the the stolen property outside of the consignment fees after the item is sold? Does providing a cash advance work around this, or did they simply buy the cards outright and sold it themselves? Because right now, I'm failing to see how exactly title was transferred to SlabSharks which would legally make the goods their own.
Since the owner of SlabSharks is a lawyer, he definitely knows more about this and would know any potential risks of this than I would, but it all feels very scummy to me and I'd be hesitant to consign with them in the future.
primetimepawich
Verified Trader ,
And I'll third this. My dad lost his battle with addiction and my best friend lives with anxiety and depression. Does that make me an expert on any of them? Absolutely not, but it tells me bad things can happen to good people - things that are very real and not to be trifled with. I may not be able to personally relate, but I will ALWAYS listen. Don't be afraid to speak up while something can be done about it. Nobody has to be alone in this.
katoy2j
Verified Trader
The poster needed to contact the police. Had they provided the information to the peel police department with proof the cards were stolen, they would have gotten in contact with Slab Sharks within hours and told them to at a minimum hold onto the cards while they investigate or take them into their possession. If they then sold the cards then Slab Sharks would have been liable. Contacting the company wasn't going to lead to much of anything.
SNobles
Patrick Roy BTP Collector,
This is how I feel based on the information provided in the thread.
piper1
Verified Trader,
Slab Sharks might what to reconsider their business model. After reading this I wouldn't deal with them.
hduong
Verified Trader,
Same here. Not a good look on their part.
Not a Canadian and not a lawyer.
After reading a little on C Law I can see that 'Bonafide First Purchaser for Value, Without Notice' has been used mainly in cases of land and secured assets. I am pretty sure that Slab Sharks is reaching to use this as a defense.
If I were you I would contact a COMPETANT attorney and pursue them starting with a demand letter as well as police reports. Again - I am not sure about C law, but it is almost never okay to be the seller of stolen goods whether you are the originator or not.
At the very least they will be directed to identify the parties that they paid $$ for the cards.
You also need to show the RMCP the TOTAL value of items sold so far so that it climbs up the food chain to felonies. That will get more action. You may also consider contacting your local politician to seek help in lighting a fire.
Just some thoughts!
I wish you well.
After reading a little on C Law I can see that 'Bonafide First Purchaser for Value, Without Notice' has been used mainly in cases of land and secured assets. I am pretty sure that Slab Sharks is reaching to use this as a defense.
If I were you I would contact a COMPETANT attorney and pursue them starting with a demand letter as well as police reports. Again - I am not sure about C law, but it is almost never okay to be the seller of stolen goods whether you are the originator or not.
At the very least they will be directed to identify the parties that they paid $$ for the cards.
You also need to show the RMCP the TOTAL value of items sold so far so that it climbs up the food chain to felonies. That will get more action. You may also consider contacting your local politician to seek help in lighting a fire.
Just some thoughts!
I wish you well.
Matches
Verified Trader,
Thanks everyone for the advice and well wishes, this is what makes H.I. community feel like a family.
And just another update. Just got of my back surgery and everything went well. Got the head taken care of and now it's the bodies turn.
And just another update. Just got of my back surgery and everything went well. Got the head taken care of and now it's the bodies turn.
karnrai21
New Member, Must Send First
Hi everyone,
Karn here at Slab Sharks.
Was informed about this post.
First off, I wanted to say sorry to the owner of the Neidermayer cards. I understand how it must feel to have cards stolen from you.
I'll give you context on the perspective of the company.
We've sold 50,000 items in 2023. We deal with A LOT of great people, a lot of unreasonable people, and the share of scammers here and there. We have people blaming their kids on bidding on cards and many creative stories good and bad.
In this situation, we do not know the original poster. We received a few messages on eBay that the cards were stolen from him with 0 proof other than that the RCMP was informed.
The poster also did not respond/communicate very well - which was then communicated to the company that it was because he was in a institute that only allows him the phone for a couple of hours a day.
Obviously, this is a very unique circumstance. We reached out to the consignor who showed us proof that the cards were purchased by him in a collection legitimately.
We reached out for proof from the original poster of his collection (pictures/anything) or the police report / and received nothing. At this point, we thought it was a dead situation (the original poster did not reach out again)
It is a hard position to be in as a company. Especially when stolen items (unbeknownst) to us) are sold to innocent parties, who then use us.
As crazy it sounds, we do have people that reach out to us with bad intentions, so we do need to be careful when finding the truth of a situation.
I would suggest for anyone reading this, please reach out to us via email, or speak to me on the phone. We can definitely figure it out much smoother.
We will review our policies on potentially stolen cards.
For now,
We're happy to provide the original poster with the full proceeds of the cards that were apart of his collection. Please reach out via email [email protected]
Our current position is that, we have no interest in selling stolen cards, we just need to make sure that they are in fact stolen first. We will likely just end any cards with any sort of accusations in the future, and let the consignor / owner deal with it for the future.
Karn here at Slab Sharks.
Was informed about this post.
First off, I wanted to say sorry to the owner of the Neidermayer cards. I understand how it must feel to have cards stolen from you.
I'll give you context on the perspective of the company.
We've sold 50,000 items in 2023. We deal with A LOT of great people, a lot of unreasonable people, and the share of scammers here and there. We have people blaming their kids on bidding on cards and many creative stories good and bad.
In this situation, we do not know the original poster. We received a few messages on eBay that the cards were stolen from him with 0 proof other than that the RCMP was informed.
The poster also did not respond/communicate very well - which was then communicated to the company that it was because he was in a institute that only allows him the phone for a couple of hours a day.
Obviously, this is a very unique circumstance. We reached out to the consignor who showed us proof that the cards were purchased by him in a collection legitimately.
We reached out for proof from the original poster of his collection (pictures/anything) or the police report / and received nothing. At this point, we thought it was a dead situation (the original poster did not reach out again)
It is a hard position to be in as a company. Especially when stolen items (unbeknownst) to us) are sold to innocent parties, who then use us.
As crazy it sounds, we do have people that reach out to us with bad intentions, so we do need to be careful when finding the truth of a situation.
I would suggest for anyone reading this, please reach out to us via email, or speak to me on the phone. We can definitely figure it out much smoother.
We will review our policies on potentially stolen cards.
For now,
We're happy to provide the original poster with the full proceeds of the cards that were apart of his collection. Please reach out via email [email protected]
Our current position is that, we have no interest in selling stolen cards, we just need to make sure that they are in fact stolen first. We will likely just end any cards with any sort of accusations in the future, and let the consignor / owner deal with it for the future.
karnrai21
New Member, Must Send First
On this note,
I do want to ask this forum for their thoughts on the best practices in this type of situation.
Please look at all perspectives, Slab Sharks as a company, the consignor, and the potential theft victim.
Slab Sharks isn't law enforcement, we do not want to get into making judgements. But we do want to do the right thing, or the action that will create the path to the right thing.
An innocent consignor, consigns a card to us.
It is reported stolen during the auction.
Q: What information should we gather for the two parties?
Q: Should we end the auction, and return the card to the consignor?
Q: Should we end the auction and hold the card? If we hold the card, for how long? Is the consignor charged insurance fees for the card being in limbo with us? (We do not hold cards, do not have a storage service)
Q: Should we then give the consignor information to the potential victim, so they can work things out?
Keep in mind, the innocent purchaser here may have just bought the card for $500 unknowingly (these things are less difficult if the consignor is an actual thief).
Please let us know, as this situation will likely happen again with the amount we are growing. We would love to do nothing less than the best practice
I do want to ask this forum for their thoughts on the best practices in this type of situation.
Please look at all perspectives, Slab Sharks as a company, the consignor, and the potential theft victim.
Slab Sharks isn't law enforcement, we do not want to get into making judgements. But we do want to do the right thing, or the action that will create the path to the right thing.
An innocent consignor, consigns a card to us.
It is reported stolen during the auction.
Q: What information should we gather for the two parties?
Q: Should we end the auction, and return the card to the consignor?
Q: Should we end the auction and hold the card? If we hold the card, for how long? Is the consignor charged insurance fees for the card being in limbo with us? (We do not hold cards, do not have a storage service)
Q: Should we then give the consignor information to the potential victim, so they can work things out?
Keep in mind, the innocent purchaser here may have just bought the card for $500 unknowingly (these things are less difficult if the consignor is an actual thief).
Please let us know, as this situation will likely happen again with the amount we are growing. We would love to do nothing less than the best practice
karnrai21
New Member, Must Send First
Another question to add,
Q: What if the consignor is clearly convinced the story of the potential victim is a lie, and does not want to provide contact information. What do we do here?
Adding this, as its happened before.
For example: Potential victim says the card was stolen on Jan 21, but the card was consigned prior to this date with proof. Potential victim is convinced the card is his (but has no proof). Consignor is convinced the potential victim is mistaken, or lying.
Consignor does not want to speak to potential victim at all.
These are the hard questions we need to answer, any help would be appreciated.
Q: What if the consignor is clearly convinced the story of the potential victim is a lie, and does not want to provide contact information. What do we do here?
Adding this, as its happened before.
For example: Potential victim says the card was stolen on Jan 21, but the card was consigned prior to this date with proof. Potential victim is convinced the card is his (but has no proof). Consignor is convinced the potential victim is mistaken, or lying.
Consignor does not want to speak to potential victim at all.
These are the hard questions we need to answer, any help would be appreciated.
katoy2j
Verified Trader
I would say the best practice would be to pause the listing of the card and advise the person who claims the card was stolen to contact the police and file a report. At that point the police will then determine what happens with the future of the card. If after 60 days they don't request the card back then sell it as normal.
As a consignment operation credibility will be extremely important as everyone knows these types of operations are where stolen and altered cards are regularly sold. I would rather be on the side of caution and pause any listings where a possible issue may arise until more information is available. A tougher stance is going to prevent people from sending cards that may have been stolen or altered to a particular consignment operation and the credibility is worth much more than the loss of possible transaction fees on a very small amount of transactions where an issue would arrise.
As a consignment operation credibility will be extremely important as everyone knows these types of operations are where stolen and altered cards are regularly sold. I would rather be on the side of caution and pause any listings where a possible issue may arise until more information is available. A tougher stance is going to prevent people from sending cards that may have been stolen or altered to a particular consignment operation and the credibility is worth much more than the loss of possible transaction fees on a very small amount of transactions where an issue would arrise.
karnrai21
New Member, Must Send First
Thank you for your reply.
How do we deal with a consignor, who believes they are 100% innocent, and the potential victim is wrong? (this has happened).
Maybe they need the money, and now using us, has resulted in their card to be in a police investigation for 60 days.
Any ideas?
How do we deal with a consignor, who believes they are 100% innocent, and the potential victim is wrong? (this has happened).
Maybe they need the money, and now using us, has resulted in their card to be in a police investigation for 60 days.
Any ideas?
SNobles
Patrick Roy BTP Collector,
There are a lot of questions asked above that I do not have the exact answers for. As I said in my post, based on the information provided in this thread it is how I felt. I am obviously not privy to the other side of the discussion and what information you were provided with.
As katoy2j indicated. I think there should be some sort of trigger to pause or suspend the auction to allow for some fact finding with the person making the claim. If the person innocently bought the stolen cards, I am sure they will want to work with all involved to get this resolved.
I have never been a part of this type of investigation before, so I am not sure how involved the RCMP or other police are, but if the person did not trust the party claiming they were stolen from them I do not see why they would be opposed to sharing their contact information with the police.
Overall, I have to say that you coming on here and posting goes a long way in showing your company is trying to do the right thing and I can respect that.
As katoy2j indicated. I think there should be some sort of trigger to pause or suspend the auction to allow for some fact finding with the person making the claim. If the person innocently bought the stolen cards, I am sure they will want to work with all involved to get this resolved.
I have never been a part of this type of investigation before, so I am not sure how involved the RCMP or other police are, but if the person did not trust the party claiming they were stolen from them I do not see why they would be opposed to sharing their contact information with the police.
Overall, I have to say that you coming on here and posting goes a long way in showing your company is trying to do the right thing and I can respect that.
karnrai21
New Member, Must Send First
Thank you, we do try our best. We deal with a lot of strain on many fronts to keep things as smooth as possible. Most out of our control (shipping times, logistics, maybe a consignor gave us a slab with a scratch on it that we did not notice). At least, this one is somewhat in our control, so we can help.
But unfortunately, we do deal with differing personalities. Even an innocent consignor for example has said, "I have owned this card for a year + with proof, why do i need to be apart of a police investigation". I mean, i do understand that perspective as well, if 100% the consignor has never stolen the card, and the consignor was mistaken.
Hence, we have gone with the, as long as their is proof, we will take it down approach.
I can tell you, in this particular circumstance, if the communication was clear, quick, and had any proof (outside of a excel sheet that anyone could make, and a case number that I could not verify) the cards wouldn't have been sold. Even a picture of the card would have sufficed.
Obviously, reading this thread, I can see more context and understand the OP better, hence we are happy to help him with the proceeds.
