The Norris Debate

[jmatchett]

I've always been a believer that this trophy should go to the best overall defenseman. To me, that is sort of like the Selke; you have to be able to perform well offensively, but you have to EXCEL defensively. As much as it pains me, Mike Green has to get consideration here. He's no Ray Bourque, but he is so good offensively that he has to warrant consideration due to his staggering point and, some might say, +/- numbers (note: Pronger is 4th in +/- and 5th in points, and he'd have tough time cracking the top 5 in Norris consideration). The only others i can see getting consideration are Doughty and Keith. For me, it has to be Keith. 2nd in points, 2nd it TOI/game, and an excellent shutdown defenseman.
First off, let's just throw +/- out the window unless we are going to assume that Jeff Schultz, Christian Ehrhoff, Pronger, Lidstrom, and Poti all have a shot. This is not a team stat, but it's not an individual stat; it's a line stat.
Now, history has shown than You CAN be only an offensive player and win this trophy. Just look at Paul Coffey. However, for anyone citing Bobby Orr, please stop it. Though I've never seen him live, I have watched a good amount of video, and while Bobby Orr is known for his scoring, he was as good of a defenseman as they came back then, mostly because of his skating and positioning. Plus, he was SO offensively gifted that he actually led the league in scoring, and I don't think anyone other defenseman ever has in the modern era (I may be wrong).
Overall, my pick would have to be Keith, with Green 2nd based of his crazy numbers, and then Doughty. Keith is not far behind in points, while playing on a less offesnive team, and plays the 2nd most of any defenseman while playing against the other team's top line every night, in a much tougher conference. But I'm open to other opinions.

 

[SkyFire47]

Lidstrom takes up a default slot.

 

[frankiefives]

Keith has been terrible since the Olympic break. Green is a defensive liability although he has improved in that department. Doughty gets my vote

 

[Metrags]

Its hard to lead all D men in goals AND assists and not get it. Not to mention second in +/-.

Im a believer in two-way defender as the winner, unfortunately everyone thinks that since your official position is "defense" that you are good at it by default. So it usually goes to the most talented offensive player.

Otherwise, Ketih gets the nod. only 6 points behind Green, and leads the Bhawks D at such a young age.

 

[Reddrgn88]

I think it should go to the stud of Team Canada DOUGHTY all the way, the guy is a manbeast!!!!

 

[saskatchewan197]

I wanna say Doughty , but will give the nod to Green. He shouldnt have to make excuses for playing Paul Coffey like , he is +34.

 

[plubers]

Doughty scores , hits, plays actual defense haha! Doughty all the way! :beer:

 

[BYOB]

I am going to with Keith, and Doughty in a close 2nd. I really think Mike Green in good but he takes way to many chances and leaves his team vulnerable way to often for a D man in the running for this award. Really I don't see a clear cut winner though with these 3, and wouldn't be surprised if either of them won it.

 

[rhcardinals3]

Even with his sub-par play as of late, I am leaning towards Keith winning it.

 

[iceberg08]

I like Doughty a lot, and think Green has a legitimate shot, but would give the nod to Keith this year if I were to choose.

 

[missionhocky10]

drew doughty is a hockey god. you can't deny a hockey god his trophy at age 20

:beer:

 

[marvelman55]

Sorry Doughty fans, I'm thinking there are two shoo in nominees, Green and Lidstrom (Lidstrom will be nominated every year until he retires, its just the way it is). The other spot could very well be Doughty or Keith, I am leaning towards Keith though.

 

[DredJAw]

So Green wins the Norris trophy but wasn't good enough to be one of the SEVEN best Canadian D-men just a month ago?

That's some weird logic by some folks around the hockey world

 

[Metrags]

So Green wins the Norris trophy but wasn't good enough to be one of the SEVEN best Canadian D-men just a month ago?

That's some weird logic by some folks around the hockey world

I dont think a tournament that has nothing to do with the NHL has much of an influence on NHL awards. :|

If those who award the trophy dont look at the playoff performances, I doubt they will look at a non-league tournament. It would make more sense to name Dan Groulx the Norris winner for leading the AHL defensemen in points.

 

[canucksfreak19]

My three are: Keith (winner), Green, and Doughty. But I also don't think Doughty will get nominated this year. It'll probably be Lidstrom getting nominated. I heard on the radio that Pronger has been having a really solid year and should be in the conversation. I haven't seen many Flyers game this year, so I ask those that have has Pronger really been having a good year?

 

[pghbuccos]

Doughty scores , hits, plays actual defense haha! Doughty all the way! :beer:

THIS

Mike Green can score but he is without a doubt a defensive liability.

 

[89chinook]

What about Chelios?

 

[suitman19]

I am curious???

Why is everyone writing off Nick Lidstrom this year?????

On a team that had been decimated by injuries - he has put together a stellar defensive year with adequate offensive numbers.
Contrary to what some people think - the Norris Trophy was intended to be for the best D-Man in the league, not the best Offensive D-Man in the league.

He is at the very least top 10 in every defensive category, he takes no penalties, plays against the premier scoring lines on every team he faces and the Wings are now top 10 in both Penalty Kill & Power Play stats. The fact that he takes most chances away without ever giving up a scoring chance at 39 years of age is remarkable - as is the fact that once again - he has played in every game Detroit has been in once again.

Everyone seems to write him off - is it because he does it with such un-remarkable fanfare???? For every name given in this thread - I cannot think of any one of these players that I would rather have on the ice THIS year - than Lidstrom.


If you do not want Lidstrom - I will vote for both Duncan Keith & Doughty.
But be honest.............
7th Game of the Stanley Cup Finals 2 minutes left on the clock and your team is ahead by 1 goal................

Who do you want on the ice????


Sorry Charlie - I know my answer to that one.


Bruce

 

[gardzy99]

I don't like the way this award is handed out in general. I think Lidstrom is one of the top dmen in the league and deserves the nod......I don't care about Mike Greens +34....when you have Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin on the ice for a powerplay he doesn't even have to touch the puck......I think that stat sucks. In terms of overall performance by a Dman....Lidstrom, Doughty is very reliable and I think a surprise nominee should go to Tyler Myers from Buffalo......he gets 20-25 minutes per night and plays well at both ends of the ice....

 

[xelloss1012]

I wonder if other defensive factors like blocked shots and hits are part of the equation for determining the Norris winner?

I checked on Rob Blake, who won the honour for 1997-98 and he had a +/- of -3 for the season, so I'm certain that blocking shots and making timely defensive maneuvers against opposing forwards is a probable factor.

The voting is still up to the Professional Hockey Writers' Association.