THN Top 10 reasons Sundin is not a Hall of Famer
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I think that this about sums it up:
But on a side note.. Due to him having played the majority of his tenure in Toronto.. I'm of the opinion that the above additional nine reasons will not come into play..
But on a side note.. Due to him having played the majority of his tenure in Toronto.. I'm of the opinion that the above additional nine reasons will not come into play..
sholi2000
Verified Trader
The Team 990 was ripping Sundin apart this morning too. They were basically using the top ten list as reasons why fans shouldn't get excited if Sundin came to Montreal.
Then they went on about does it really matter who gets him, Detroit may just as well win the cup again.
Then they went on about does it really matter who gets him, Detroit may just as well win the cup again.
tealfan
Verified Trader
This surprised me.
A
Ashtaway
Guest
he might be a HOF'er, but not for 25 years, lol
smekm
Banned User
I know he is not a HOFer but I think alot of people over look how good he is. I know I did for years.
sholi2000
Verified Trader
I like his play behind the net. Very hard to take the puck from, but is lack of touch in the playoffs are huge/
DredJAw
Upstanding Member,
What lack of touch in the playoffs?
In 83 playoff games (which is essentially a full NHL season) he's scored 35 goals and is close to a PPG. Each and every playoff year he's close to a PPG. I wouldn't call it "huge" thats for sure.
Edit: To further back my point, Joe Sakic, who's known as one of the most clutch players of all time scorers a goal at a rate of 0.49 playoff games. Mats Sundin scores at a rate of 0.42. So saying he has a 'huge' lack of touch in the plyoffs is just lip service to make him look bad.
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Khabby
Verified Trader,
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys....wned:
wned:sholi2000
Verified Trader
That's great, but on ice he never showed it. I remember watching him in the playoffs (mostly because Mtl never made it), and he may have been close to ppg but you'd never think he did. There's a huge difference between ppg, and scoring say 20 gwg, or getting the primary assist on the game winner, or that end to end rush to to score a tying goal. If he signed withthe Canadiens, of course I'll accept him, but he doesn't deserve a letter in Montreal.
EDITHardly lip service. Joe helped bring 2 cups to the Avs. If Sundin would have done that, this conversation would be laughable.
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smekm
Banned User
One thing Sakic had alot of good players playing with him who did sundin have lets think about this for a minute ......................umm
moosejaw
Registered Trader
smekm:
Please don't insult Sakic. That guy had a bunch of rough years in Quebec and put up HUGE numbers. Yes, he started winning when they surrounded him with talent via that Lindros trade...and Roy.
Sakic is a sure fire HOFer with or without the cups, the allstar teams, and all the accolades he has accumulated. I will also mention that great players gravitated towards Sakic, unlike Sundin.
Please don't insult Sakic. That guy had a bunch of rough years in Quebec and put up HUGE numbers. Yes, he started winning when they surrounded him with talent via that Lindros trade...and Roy.
Sakic is a sure fire HOFer with or without the cups, the allstar teams, and all the accolades he has accumulated. I will also mention that great players gravitated towards Sakic, unlike Sundin.
Ferris
Verified Trader,
It's hard to argue with those numbers, especially when you can be compared to guys like Ciccarelli, Gilmour and Andreychuk and not measure up. However, if I had a vote, I would vote him in for "Best Commercial" - I think it was the Nike add where he plasters some annoying disco-blading dude up against the front window of a coffee shop.
NJDEVILS30
Verified Trader,
Alex Mogilny rings a bell...
No matter anyhow, HOF players make those around them better, and that is something that Sundin has never done...
I also believe that the reason that he never excelled and became "great" is because there was never any expectation for him in Toronto, and everyone around here is satisfied with a point a game "superstar"...
bto3105
Transactions Moderator, Upstanding Member,
Pretty bold prediction but you never know. It's true he played not really getting anywhere with the leafs but look at the team. Guys have gotten into the hall riding on the coatails of the team that aren't half the player(Anderson!!!!) .Sundin and great goaltending got the leafs there best sucess. Sundin had no one to play with him
Oh Forgot......He did have that Superstar Hoglund!!!!!
It's 50/50 if he makes it sooner rather than later but I do believe he will be a hall of Famer
Dean
Oh Forgot......He did have that Superstar Hoglund!!!!!
It's 50/50 if he makes it sooner rather than later but I do believe he will be a hall of Famer
Dean
FASTMAX
Verified Trader,
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys....
AGREED!! I'm not saying he should be a lock but the stats speak for themselves. Maybe he doesnt have a Cup or any individual awards but does anyone take into account his International play? Straight from Wikipidia.....
Men's ice hockey
Olympic Games
Gold 2006 Turin Sweden
World Championships
Silver 2003 Sweden
Bronze 2001 Sweden
Gold 1998 Sweden
Bronze 1994 Sweden
Gold 1992 Sweden
Gold 1991 Sweden
1 Olyimpic Gold, 3 World Cup Golds a Silver and 2 Bronze. 2002 Olymp[ic All Star. 9 NHL All Star appearences. Amazing what he can do with non"turkeys" around him. If you take into account who/what he has had to work with I think his performance has been pretty impressive.
sholi2000
Verified Trader
DredJAw
Upstanding Member,
He showed it year in and year out!
Do you remember the OT goal against Ottawa in game 1 (cant remember which year)? Or how about when he tied it against Carolina with 30 seconds left? Or, watch this beauty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9oAUTPIoc
Theres your end to end rush. Listen to the words used to describe that. "what an effort", "pull away from his check", 'this has to do with determination'.
I've watched more Mats Sundin than probably anyone on this site. The guys a bull and gave it his all game in and game out for years. It's a shame his best years were wasted with guys like Renberg, and Hoglund flanking him. Mogilny barely played 5 on 5 with him (they did play pp together though).
Anyways, just stick to watching the Habs
... something you might have a valid opinion on :dance:DredJAw
Upstanding Member,
For one thing Mogilny played a total of 176 regular season games with the Leafs. Thats not exactly a career with them. Further, Mogilny generally played with Reichel and/or Tucker on the second line. I'd wager that Mogilny and Mats played on the same line 5 on 5 for maybe 50-75 games in total over 3 seasons. Thats really not a permanent linemate. Thats like saying Jagr and Avery played on the same line. Sure, a little. Not linemates though.
Mats made Hoglund a 29 goal scorer and serviceable NHLer for a long while. He did the same for Renberg. Stumpy (Thomas) had great years with Mats. Steen has averaged a PPG with Mats and well, well below that without him. Ask Antropov how much Mats has done for him.
Mats has had 3rd liners on his line his whole career. It would have been great to see him with Heatley and Alfredsson instead of Renberg and Hoglund.
leafschik1967
Verified Member
I've never really thought of Sundin as a sure fire Hall of Famer. I'd prefer the HOF to be for guys who make you go 'Wow!' not just guys who rack up numbers over a long period of time. Sundin's a very good player, and his international accomplishments might give him the edge in voting, but he's never been 'the man' in the NHL.
Pavel Bure has worse career numbers than a large number of current HOFers, but if someone gives you a choice - are you going to go see Bure in his prime, or Bernie Federko? Federko is a nice guy, and a solid player, but not in the 'Holy Cow, did he just do that?!?' mold.
I'd rather see (relatively) short term excellence rewarded, as opposed to long term 'very goodness'. Bure in his prime was watching someone do things with a puck that very few others can do. He shouldn't be punished for his lack of longevity any more than guys like Sundin should be rewarded for it.
Pavel Bure has worse career numbers than a large number of current HOFers, but if someone gives you a choice - are you going to go see Bure in his prime, or Bernie Federko? Federko is a nice guy, and a solid player, but not in the 'Holy Cow, did he just do that?!?' mold.
I'd rather see (relatively) short term excellence rewarded, as opposed to long term 'very goodness'. Bure in his prime was watching someone do things with a puck that very few others can do. He shouldn't be punished for his lack of longevity any more than guys like Sundin should be rewarded for it.
