Thoughts on J'O's comment on the possible NBA age limit?

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Here's one of the many articles covering the matter at hand: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/050414

I think J.O. has a point. Robert Swift is the only white guy to go from high school to the NBA. Everyone else has been black. Although I won't go so far to accuse David Stern of racism, one has to raise the question as to why the age limit is really being considered. Sure, there are lots of high school to NBA kids not finding a niche, but think about the players we would've had to wait on if we didn't allow it:
Moses Malone, Darryl Dawkins, Kobe Bryant, Amare Stoudemire, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James...it's not like these are few and far between.

J.O. definitely has a right to bring up a race issue, and I think he did it rather professionally by not throwing out any actual accusations.
 
I'm bored and going to show you the players who jumped from high schools numbers their first year in the league against their third year (which would be their rookie year with the age limit. Rookies w/o three years of experience will only list rookie year statistics:
Al Jefferson
98-99 IND 21 0 7.6 .321 .000 .600 1.00 .90 1.90 .2 .19 .10 .52 1.20 2.1
00-01 IND 78 38 24.3 .444 .143 .656 1.50 3.40 4.90 1.7 .81 .23 1.90 2.90 7.5

Josh Smith:
70 55 27.1 .459 .211 .687 2.00 4.00 6.00 1.6 .83 1.91 1.74 2.00 9.3

Al Jefferson:
BOS 67 1 14.8 181-346 .523 0-3 .000 81-128 .633 1.70 2.70 4.40 .3 .30 .78 .93 2.70 6.6

Kendrick Perkins:
03-04 BOS 10 0 3.5 .533 .000 .667 .50 .90 1.40 .3 .00 .20 .50 .60 2.2
04-05 BOS 56 2 8.8 .468 .000 .633 .90 2.00 2.90 .4 .16 .61 .71 1.50 2.4

Eddy Curry:
01-02 CHI 72 31 16.0 .501 .000 .656 1.50 2.20 3.80 .3 .22 .74 .96 2.40 6.7
03-04 CHI 73 63 29.5 .496 1.000 .671 2.00 4.20 6.20 .9 .33 1.14 2.42 3.50 14.7

Tyson Chandler:
01-02 CHI 71 31 19.6 .497 .000 .604 1.60 3.20 4.80 .8 .39 1.31 1.39 2.50 6.1
03-04 CHI 35 8 22.3 .424 .000 .669 2.30 5.40 7.70 .7 .49 1.23 1.09 2.50 6.1

LeBron James:
03-04 CLE 79 79 39.5 .417 .290 .754 1.30 4.20 5.50 5.9 1.65 .73 3.46 1.90 20.9
04-05 CLE 75 75 42.1 .478 .358 .757 1.40 5.70 7.10 7.2 2.25 .64 3.35 1.80 26.9

Tracy McGrady:
97-98 TOR 64 17 18.4 .450 .341 .712 1.60 2.60 4.20 1.5 .77 .95 1.03 1.30 7.0
99-00 TOR 79 34 31.2 .451 .277 .707 2.40 4.00 6.30 3.3 1.14 1.91 2.03 2.50 15.4

Jermaine O'Neal:
96-97 POR 45 0 10.2 .451 .000 .603 .90 1.90 2.80 .2 .04 .58 .60 1.00 4.1
98-99 POR 36 1 8.6 .434 .000 .514 1.20 1.50 2.70 .4 .11 .39 .39 1.10 2.5

Stephen Jackson:
00-01 NJN 77 40 21.6 .425 .335 .719 .50 2.20 2.70 1.8 1.12 .18 1.69 2.20 8.2
02-03 SAS 80 58 28.2 .435 .320 .760 .80 2.80 3.60 2.3 1.56 .38 2.20 2.50 11.8

Jonathan Bender:
99-00 IND 24 1 5.4 .329 .167 .667 .20 .70 .90 .1 .04 .21 .29 .80 2.7
01-02 IND 78 17 21.1 .430 .360 .773 .80 2.30 3.10 .8 .24 .63 1.23 1.90 7.4

Shaun Livingston:
04-05 LAC 26 11 25.9 .417 .000 .741 .70 2.00 2.70 4.7 1.08 .42 2.27 2.80 7.2

Dorrell Wright:
04-05 MIA 1 0 2.0 .000 .000 .000 .00 .00 .00 .0 .00 .00 .00 .00 .0

Kevin Garnett:
95-96 MIN 80 43 28.7 .491 .286 .705 2.20 4.10 6.30 1.8 1.08 1.64 1.38 2.40 10.4
97-98 MIN 82 82 39.3 .491 .188 .738 2.70 6.90 9.60 4.2 1.70 1.83 2.34 2.70 18.5

Ndudi Ebi:
03-04 MIN 17 0 1.9 .429 .000 .250 .10 .10 .20 .2 .00 .24 .18 .40 .8
HASN'T APPEARED IN A SINGLE GAME IN 2005

JR Smith:
NOH 72 52 23.9 276-690 .400 76-262 .290 102-148 .689 .50 1.40 1.90 1.8 .74 .15 1.40 1.70 10.1

Dwight Howard:
04-05 ORL 78 78 32.5 .522 .000 .674 3.50 6.50 10.10 .9 .90 1.69 1.95 2.80 11.8

DeShawn Stevenson:
00-01 UTA 40 2 7.3 .341 .083 .684 .20 .50 .70 .5 .25 .05 .70 .70 2.2
02-03 UTA 61 8 12.5 .401 .333 .691 .40 1.00 1.40 .7 .36 .13 .80 .90 4.6

Amare Stoudamire:
02-03 PHO 82 71 31.3 .472 .200 .661 3.00 5.70 8.80 1.0 .76 1.06 2.30 3.30 13.5
04-05 PHO 76 76 36.2 .560 .077 .731 2.60 6.20 8.80 1.6 .99 1.58 2.38 3.50 25.8

Sebastian Telfair:
04-05 POR 64 22 18.5 .388 .250 .789 .20 1.30 1.50 3.0 .41 .05 1.80 1.80 6.5

Travis Outlaw:
03-04 POR 8 0 2.4 .429 .000 .500 .30 .30 .50 .1 .13 .00 .13 .10 1.0
04-05 POR 54 1 12.4 .498 .400 .636 .60 1.30 2.00 .5 .52 .70 .65 1.20 4.9

Darius Miles:
00-01 LAC 81 21 26.3 .505 .053 .521 1.60 4.30 5.90 1.2 .63 1.54 1.81 2.40 9.4
02-03 CLE 67 62 30.0 .410 .000 .594 1.70 3.70 5.40 2.6 1.00 1.03 2.66 2.40 9.2

Robert Swift:
SEA 15 0 3.7 1-7 .143 0-0 .000 3-6 .500 .00 .10 .10 .1 .07 .20 .27 .90 .3

Kwame Brown:
01-02 WAS 57 3 14.3 .387 .000 .707 1.10 2.40 3.50 .8 .28 .46 .75 1.80 4.5
03-04 WAS 74 57 30.3 .489 .500 .683 2.40 5.00 7.40 1.5 .89 .70 1.89 1.90 10.9

As you can tell nearly ALL these players would have benefited from two years in college. The game would be better, the college game would be more exciting and you wouldn't have to wrap your head around the fact Ndudi Ebi and Dorrell Wright have scored as many points as you have for their teams. Thats right, by not being on the roster you have contributed as much as Ndudi Ebi this season.

Jeff
 
Jeff these young stars need to worry about there future, say one of them gets hurt while playing in college hes done. At least if they go pro they have some money as we know most of them are hugely smart...
 
I'm not sure why JO brought up race because I really do not think this has anything to do with race. How would raising the age limit be racist? It's not like black guys don't come out of college and I also don't see how an age limit would bring more white guys into the league.

Even though I disagree with JO about it possibly being a race issue, I do agree that an age limit is ridiculous. The reason I think Stern would want an age limit is possibly so kids can get an education or he thinks it will benefit the college and pro game. The college game is a lot different the the NBA though. Adapting from high school to the NBA would not be that much more difficult than adapting from college to the NBA. My main reason against an age limit would be, if someone wants to go straight to the league, why should anyone be able to stop him? It's not like they don't understand what they are doing. A lot of the players could probably use the money to help out their family too. Going to college would not give them any money, but would take away more money.
 
I dont like the age limit myself and I am an older white man but I dont think race has a factor in the arguement. I read someone say that only 1 white guy came out of high scholl. while this might be true the age factor will affect all of the forign players coming into the league. I believe on 1st and 10 they said about 18 players drafted this past year would have been affected and only 7 were black. More black US players skip college but more white, asian, and south americans overall skip it.

these are the US high schoolers
dwight howard
shaun livingston
robert swift
telfair
al jefferson
josh smith
j r smith
dorell wright

these are the forign players drafted that would be affected
andris biedrins
pavel podkolzin
sergei monia
sasha vujacic
peter john ramos
ha seung-jin
viktor sanikidze
albert miralles
sergei karaulov
vassillia spanoulis

as you can see alot more forign players and with the age limit I think there would be more american college players drafted.

Now I know most the US high schoolers are better the any of the forign players so I think the NBA should limit the age of forign players not US players.

just my opinion though....
 
Adjusting to the NBA from high school is in fact more difficult. Who's been more successful this year, Devin Harris or Sebastian Telfair? Harris can come in and play while Telfair still is probably a year from being a legitimate starter (yes I know he starts now, but most teams would wait on him). The fact is drafting high schoolers and not playing them HURTS THE TEAM. They have gauranteed contracts (4 years I believe) and this means while the player gets money the team pays for nothing. The simple solution would to either put an age limit and keep gauranteed contracts, or to drop gauranteed contracts so the busts don't get paid for 4 years.

Name me some players who were going to jump straight from high school and got hurt their first year in college
 
JJonesFan said:
Adjusting to the NBA from high school is in fact more difficult. Who's been more successful this year, Devin Harris or Sebastian Telfair? Harris can come in and play while Telfair still is probably a year from being a legitimate starter (yes I know he starts now, but most teams would wait on him). The fact is drafting high schoolers and not playing them HURTS THE TEAM. They have gauranteed contracts (4 years I believe) and this means while the player gets money the team pays for nothing. The simple solution would to either put an age limit and keep gauranteed contracts, or to drop gauranteed contracts so the busts don't get paid for 4 years.

Name me some players who were going to jump straight from high school and got hurt their first year in college
Click to expand...


you can't use harris/telfair look at the players around harris and his coach.
 
Telfair isn't a bad player so thats not a great example. Also, the argument is not who is better. Adapting to the game doesn't mean being a superstar player. And you can't name many players who got injured because almost all high school players who have the option to go pro do.
 
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That's not true, Marvin Williams and MANY others have recently had the option. Carmelo Anthony went to college for one year and moved up in the draft about 10 spots, he was projected late lottery if he jumped form high school. Please explain how a year or two in college could hurt a player.
 
Guy breaks a leg and is out like jay williams injury( not what happen to him but the type of injury he suffered).

The player now has to go work doing something where he gets paid 1/52 of what his nba contract was..
 
How does going straight to the NBA hurt a player? Colleges aren't looking for guys who need to learn fundamentals for the NBA, they are looking for guys who know how to play college ball and can win them games.
 
How would they have benefited from years in college? Look at guys who were supposed to be stars in the NBA like Forte/William Avery and Mateen Cleaves. Jermaine O'neal is right..these players are motivated and turning out at a much quicker rate, They don't have a lot of money and would like to cash in on being some of the most talented players in the country. I think Jermaine articulated his points well on NBA Fastbreak and am glad someone is sticking up for these kids.
 
Just for the record: The issue of racism was brought up because all but 1 U.S. (Thanks for pointing out the Nationality issue CarolinaBlue) high-school-to-NBA players have been black. Because of that, it is safe to say that the same trend will continue in some form, whether or not it slowly dwindles or becomes even stronger, which means instituting an age limit will screw over a lot of black men who have the talent to be drafted to an NBA team.

The confusion comes from the racial issue being indirect. It is direct discrimination against age, but because of circumstance, it becomes an indirect discrimination against young, black men.

The fact of the matter is NBA teams want to save themselves from spending lots of money on high-school busts, while high-school players want to make it to the NBA for money. It's capitalism against capitalism. The age limit will be in favor of the NBA teams financially, but not having the age limit will allow opportunities to talented basketball players out of high school. It becomes a grey area when you pit the fact that high school players actually fuel the NBA economy by bringing in fans and selling merchandise (LeBron and Kobe, anyone?), against the fact that many high-school-to-NBA players struggle at first and end up actually hurting their team just by taking up a roster spot and earning their keep with a contract.

I say let the ballers play, and let the teams gamble if they want to. Imagine if LeBron played in college, got hurt, and ended up working at McDonald's. If that were to happen due to an age limit in the NBA, then his financial failure would be the fault of the NBA. But then again that's just another grey area.
 
The fact of injury is a HUGE what if. Also, these players have options to make money for two years BESIDES college. They can play in the Euro leauges and help their families as early as they want to.

Duke your right, Mateen Cleaves/Forte didn't benefit from college, but they were not hurt by it. Forte was there ONE year, and in his own admission wasnt ready to play on an NBA level. He says he should have stayed in school.

I'm sure the age limit would be DROPPED completely if the players would agree to make contracts shorter lengths and less gauranteed money for these rookies. If teams can gamble and not waste a four year deal on them, I don't think there would be a problem. The fact is players like Ndudi Ebi, Dorrell Wright, Robert Swrft, and Al Jefferson probably would be ready to play when they came into the league if they'd gone into college for a few years.

Q. Richardson- going the the NBA from school doesn't hurt the player. It hurts the team and the game.

THEFRANCHISE- if a player gets hurt then that's what happens. What if Jay had stayed for his senior year at Duke? He's not on a huge motorcycle and if he never plays again he has a college degree from Duke to fall back on. Also, I can use Telfair/Harris as an example because Devin Harris would have started from game one with the Blazers and run that team, where Telfair was unable to because he wasn't/isn't ready to play the NBA game.
 
Going to college doesn't make any guarantees that a player will benefit the team any more than a high school player would. In the 04' Draft, there were 8 high schoolers drafted. More than half of those 8 players have had an immediate impact on their team in a good way. There were 37 college players drafted in 04'. I would say no more than maybe 10 of those 37 have had an immediate impact on their team. So out of high school, over 50% had an impact, out of college, about 25-30% have had an impact on their team. How is that bad for teams?
 
Just a quick question from a basketball-stupid hockey fan: Is there currently an age limit on draftees, and they just want to raise it? Or do they just have to be out of high school and they want to raise it to two years through college? In hockey they have to have their 18th birthday by I believe the September of the year they are drafted, so that they are 18 before play begins.
 
Only 8/24 of the players listed above made significant impacts their rookie year. Look at the teams the high school players making an impact are on. The Hornets (who's entire team is hurt and who's best player was traded), the Hawks (arguably the worst run franchise in the NBA and who traded their best scorer), the Magic (Dwight has been very good this year, but Emeka would have equal or better numbers), and I can't even think of the fourth your thinking of.
 
Livingston is who I was thinking of. 1/3 of all the HS's is a pretty good number if you ask me?
 
Livingston was hurt 80% of the season, I'd hardly say that helped him. Also, that's not to say he won't contribute, but this season was essentially lost for him.
 

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