UD vs. Konami Lawsuit

meatmancgy said:
NFL made a decision on the licenses already? I didn't hear that. That changes the landscape dramatically. If Topps comes back in because of this Konami issue with UD, they better get more creative in their hockey attempts than they have been with their baseball ones.
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NFL has yet to publicly announce a decision. If Topps maintains the NFL license, look for a structure similar to the old baseball licensing where they sign individual players.

Topps said in a Beckett interview recently that they're gunning for an NHL license.

As for creativity, I'd debate that Topps hasn't been creative.

A&G has had some great concepts in its four-year thus far with some great inserts that have really driven sales there. Given that there is still some collectability for the C55 parallels, tweaking the brand or bringing in another name could work.

I think the return of Bowman would be welcomed by collectors, especially now that there are such rich rookie crops coming out.

Triple Thread has been absoutely huge and I think it would fair very well in hockey too.

Sterling certainly will fair better than Reserve did. Reserve across all of the sports, really, did not make the impact that Topps wanted.

The real x-factor with Topps though will be the reaction sans the OPC brand, which had been part of Topps every year (sans the 97-98 sticker set).
 
jetsman said:
Topps said in a Beckett interview recently that they're gunning for an NHL license.

As for creativity, I'd debate that Topps hasn't been creative.
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Bettman said last year that Eisner is a buddy of his, and they'd already been talking about Topps going after the NHL license. The trick is, will the NHL & PA open it up again, or go for another exclusive?

Topps, Topps Chrome, Bowman, Bowman Chrome... identical sets, other than finish of the cards & the brand name. Four products, one design. No thanks. Sterling is a great product, but very pricey. A&G had its design benefits from 100 years ago, so they just took that and added to it. And really, it's not that dissimilar from Champs (which UD admitted that they took a page out of the A&G book), so again, nothing unusual for us hockey people.

Anyways, back on topic... the 26th will be an extremely eventful day. Anyone in the So.Cal area that wants to go to the courtroom and report the proceedings for The Insider's Edge?
 
Bruce, would love to continue the debate privately or we can open up a new thread for it :).

As for UD's future, I agree - the 26th could very well be the day that changes our hobby, as we know it, forever. Upper deck's regime, like it or not, has been so dominant across all sports that the implications of this decision could rock the hobby to its foundation.

UD has been a major partner and sponsor of several NHL events, including the Draft and the All-Star game. UD has also been very kid-friendly in a lot of their activities and has done a lot in building a web presence for the hobby. No other company has done as much as they have online.

If Upper Deck does fall, then there's a second edition of Card Sharks just waiting to be written; and knowing some of the guys and gals who have been employed there, there are many, many stories to be told.
 
I've been talking to Pete Williams about another edition of Card Sharks. He needs to get his knowledge back up about the hobby overall, but I think this decision will pique his interest!
 
meatmancgy said:
NFL made a decision on the licenses already? I didn't hear that. That changes the landscape dramatically. If Topps comes back in because of this Konami issue with UD, they better get more creative in their hockey attempts than they have been with their baseball ones.
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Don't get this statement even with the explanation after.
 
jonpop said:
Don't get this statement even with the explanation after.
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They'll need to step up their game considerably to get back in the hockey market. Topps baseball products (which I used to thoroughly enjoy) have been on a steep downhill slide for the last 2+ years and the customer base has walked away from a lot of their products.

Darren
 
dahabsfan said:
They'll need to step up their game considerably to get back in the hockey market. Topps baseball products (which I used to thoroughly enjoy) have been on a steep downhill slide for the last 2+ years and the customer base has walked away from a lot of their products.

Darren
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I agree that CO-signers should have never left the table but we are experieincing just the opposite - more people are enjoying Topp's basbeall products now more than ever.

In addition - look at the other heritage products out there, UFC and WWE are taking off as well.

It's what we are seeing in our store. Money talks and people are handing me money for Topp's products. (2nd only to UD)

And please, someone remind me what was one of the most sought after products in 03/04...... Bowman Hockey
 
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Stadium Sports said:
I agree that CO-signers should have never left the table but we are experieincing just the opposite - more people are enjoying Topp's basbeall products now more than ever.

In addition - look at the other heritage products out there, UFC and WWE are taking off as well.

It's what we are seeing in our store. Money talks and people are handing me money for Topp's products. (2nd only to UD)

And please, someone remind me what was one of the most sought after products in 03/04...... Bowman Hockey
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Well, the wholesalers are telling a much different story on their Topps baseball sales as a whole. Also south of the border it's evident by the sheer amount of Topps baseball stock that is getting dumped at basement prices.


I'm not talking UFC, WWE, etc just baseball numbers. As for 03-04 Bowman Chrome, the reason it was so in demand was simple - there was next to nothing printed. It was the shortest run product of that season by a fairly wide margin - couple that with a few US dealers that thought they had the equivalent of Bowman Chrome baseball (that are still sitting on boxes) and it might appear to be one of the more popular products.

Darren
 
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jetsman said:
Bruce, would love to continue the debate privately or we can open up a new thread for it :).

As for UD's future, I agree - the 26th could very well be the day that changes our hobby, as we know it, forever. Upper deck's regime, like it or not, has been so dominant across all sports that the implications of this decision could rock the hobby to its foundation.

UD has been a major partner and sponsor of several NHL events, including the Draft and the All-Star game. UD has also been very kid-friendly in a lot of their activities and has done a lot in building a web presence for the hobby. No other company has done as much as they have online.

If Upper Deck does fall, then there's a second edition of Card Sharks just waiting to be written; and knowing some of the guys and gals who have been employed there, there are many, many stories to be told.
Click to expand...

I think we're all grossly overestimating what the 26th holds for the hobby and specifically, Upper Deck. It's not gonaa be a case of here one day, gone the next... this is gonna take some time to shake itself out.... months or years even.

... one thing you should all do though is go to the Upper Deck Blog and look at the pictures of McWilliams' office... extravgance that defies logic given the state of the business...
 
cards-gotta-go said:
I think we're all grossly overestimating what the 26th holds for the hobby and specifically, Upper Deck. It's not gonaa be a case of here one day, gone the next... this is gonna take some time to shake itself out.... months or years even.

... one thing you should all do though is go to the Upper Deck Blog and look at the pictures of McWilliams' office... extravgance that defies logic given the state of the business...
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Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you will much drop off in the remaining products this year, but I would expect to see serious cut backs from there forward. When the bulk of your income suddenly becomes property of someone else, the motivation to make that income goes down in hurry.
 
dahabsfan said:
Well, the wholesalers are telling a much different story on their Topps baseball sales as a whole. Also south of the border it's evident by the sheer amount of Topps baseball stock that is getting dumped at basement prices.
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I just checked all 3 of my distributors and non of them are blowing out Topp's baseball products - in fact all the highend stuff looks to be in limited quantities so unless you are refferring to the standard Topps baseball brand (and you can't get jumbo boxes), I am not sure what you are referring to.

I think Topp's would be the only comany with the infastructure to take on additional production.
 
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Will be settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.....unless the Japanese integrity of Konami calls for taking UD out.....and I am hoping for the latter.
 
I would love to see ITG and Topps in the ring for hockey. Bowman would be a great product to have hit the market again... Topps Reserve and Triple threads. Creativity is a must for anyone that gets the license, hopefully the NHL and the PA are dumb enough to do another exclusive. I would love to be able to watch this all unfold in court, it will be very interesting to see if this finally sinks the SS UD or if the NHL and PA just pull the plug on them.
 
Stadium Sports said:
I just checked all 3 of my distributors and non of them are blowing out Topp's baseball products - in fact all the highend stuff looks to be in limited quantities so unless you are refferring to the standard Topps baseball brand (and you can't get jumbo boxes), I am not sure what you are referring to.

I think Topp's would be the only comany with the infastructure to take on additional production.
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Compared to release prices, there are several low-end Topps products that are currently available at much cheaper prices.

Bowman
Bowman Chrome (seems to be a real stinker)
Topps Update & Highlights (a real weak effort from my perspective).

I'm not a Chromie, but I've heard that Bowman Draft is also not as strong as years past.

I don't think the WBC cards helped the Bowman/Chrome product lines.

Topps Chrome seems to have held pretty steady... but it was also the first set to get the major rookies out (Hanson, Beckham...)
 
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DCUnited96 said:
Compared to release prices, there are several low-end Topps products that are currently available at much cheaper prices.

Bowman
Bowman Chrome (seems to be a real stinker)
Topps Update & Highlights (a real weak effort from my perspective).

I'm not a Chromie, but I've heard that Bowman Draft is also not as strong as years past.

I don't think the WBC cards helped the Bowman/Chrome product lines.

Topps Chrome seems to have held pretty steady... but it was also the first set to get the major rookies out (Hanson, Beckham...)
Click to expand...

As a former Chromie, but still a big time baseball fan - the lineup in any of the Bowman products this year really have left a lot to be desired. As for how much the Razor/UD signings to exclusive deals for a lot of the 2008 MLB Draft class had, it made a big dent. But for the following that Topps has from the master set guys - the return on breaks for some Topps products IMHO leave a lot to be desired, particularly on the higher end of the scale.
 
DCUnited96 said:
Compared to release prices, there are several low-end Topps products that are currently available at much cheaper prices.

Bowman
Bowman Chrome (seems to be a real stinker)
Topps Update & Highlights (a real weak effort from my perspective).

I'm not a Chromie, but I've heard that Bowman Draft is also not as strong as years past.

I don't think the WBC cards helped the Bowman/Chrome product lines.

Topps Chrome seems to have held pretty steady... but it was also the first set to get the major rookies out (Hanson, Beckham...)
Click to expand...

You can say that about any low-end product.

I can buy Vicotry cheaper, H&P cheaper, UD Blasters.....

Mid-range and hi-end stuff - not so much.
 
I don't have a problem with Upper Deck, but I do have a problem with how they go about and do business. I welcome them to keep up their production of hockey cards, if they start doing it honestly.

The redemptions are my main issue. Not fulfilling them, sending copies of cards that weren't inserted in products as replacements, knowingly inserting redemptions that they have had no intention of making from the beginning. The last one is obviously speculation on my part, but that is something I strongly believe has occurred numerous times.

I hope they get what's coming to them. That is all.
 
meatmancgy said:
Bettman said last year that Eisner is a buddy of his, and they'd already been talking about Topps going after the NHL license. The trick is, will the NHL & PA open it up again, or go for another exclusive?

Topps, Topps Chrome, Bowman, Bowman Chrome... identical sets, other than finish of the cards & the brand name. Four products, one design. No thanks. Sterling is a great product, but very pricey. A&G had its design benefits from 100 years ago, so they just took that and added to it. And really, it's not that dissimilar from Champs (which UD admitted that they took a page out of the A&G book), so again, nothing unusual for us hockey people.

Anyways, back on topic... the 26th will be an extremely eventful day. Anyone in the So.Cal area that wants to go to the courtroom and report the proceedings for The Insider's Edge?
Click to expand...

Depending on when and where that day, I may be able to make it.

Btw, any word on those copies of the mag?
 

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