UFC 154: St. Pierre vs. Condit - Nov. 17th

[BravesFan4Life]

I think the animosity towards GSP (and believe me I feel the same way) is that he is a relatively safe fighter. He stopped taking chances after Serra got him. He has been mostly lay and hump into submission. Last time he stopped anybody and this was not even standing was BJ Penn. Last actual on the feet stoppage he had was in 06 of Matt Hughes. I appreciate his abilities on the ground but he does not have that killer gene that Anderson Silva or Jon Jones seem to possess. Silva tends to toy with his opponents but finishes them.(well recently minus Sonnen the first time). Jones will smell blood and take that person out(of course Evans not included). GSP lets it go 5 content to go to decision. I have a feeling that if GSP and Silva clash if GSP cannot get a takedown in the first round to prove a point that Silva will absolutely destroy him standing. Silva is about 5 times the striker Condit is. He is so damn precise he will not give GSP a second chance. From what I have observed if Silva truely thinks you are a threat he takes you out fast which would likely include GSP. Even further I think Hendricks proved that he has the ability to take that strap from GSP and with one punch too boot. Hendricks is a good wrestler in his own right and he has destroyed 2 out of his last 3 opponents.

 

[marvelman55]

I think the animosity towards GSP (and believe me I feel the same way) is that he is a relatively safe fighter. He stopped taking chances after Serra got him. He has been mostly lay and hump into submission. Last time he stopped anybody and this was not even standing was BJ Penn. Last actual on the feet stoppage he had was in 06 of Matt Hughes. I appreciate his abilities on the ground but he does not have that killer gene that Anderson Silva or Jon Jones seem to possess. Silva tends to toy with his opponents but finishes them.(well recently minus Sonnen the first time). Jones will smell blood and take that person out(of course Evans not included). GSP lets it go 5 content to go to decision. I have a feeling that if GSP and Silva clash if GSP cannot get a takedown in the first round to prove a point that Silva will absolutely destroy him standing. Silva is about 5 times the striker Condit is. He is so damn precise he will not give GSP a second chance. From what I have observed if Silva truely thinks you are a threat he takes you out fast which would likely include GSP. Even further I think Hendricks proved that he has the ability to take that strap from GSP and with one punch too boot. Hendricks is a good wrestler in his own right and he has destroyed 2 out of his last 3 opponents.

I'm much more interested in a Hendricks-GSP fight than a Silva-GSP fight. It will be a battle of polar opposites, the heavy hitter vs the take down specialist. The one shot finisher vs the wear down. I wonder if Hendricks has the stamina to go 5 rounds, should GSP not get caught by a knock out punch.

 

[JR]

Gsp will have to watch for kicks from Silva if that fight goes down. I want to see a Condit/Hendricks bout. Winner gets a title shot.

 

[Brave]

For the life of me, I can't figure out the hate for GSP from some so called UFC fans. He is the best in the world at take downs, top control, and is arguably the best in the world in general. He brought the goods tonight in an exciting fight with one of the best fighters he has ever faced. Seriously, is this just a bunch of cretins who only watch UFC for the knockouts?

And for what its worth, I think Anderson Silva is very over rated. He's beaten a line up of chumps recently, including almost losing to Sonnen. The last time he fought someone who was a world class fighter was Dan Henderson and that was in 2008.

I just hate the thought of screwiing around with the weight classes. Hendricks looked awesome last night, Fitch is on his way back. Henderson is due a title fight vs Silva. Why should these guys work their butts off and then settle for an interim title or secondary fight? Hendricks has the tools to give St. Pierre a run for his money.

 

[MMarch]

I totally understand why Georges wouldn't want to take the fight against Anderson, size disparity.

Silva is 6'2" just like Condit. I don't buy the size difference as a valid reason not to fight Silva, he had no problem fighting Condit right? GSP has no problem fighting guys smaller in size, he should have no problem fighting bigger guys either. I'm not saying he should fight Jon Jones as that is clearly a mis-match, but he should fight Anderson Silva in my opinion.

 

[canucksfreak19]

Silva is 6'2" just like Condit. I don't buy the size difference as a valid reason not to fight Silva, he had no problem fighting Condit right? GSP has no problem fighting guys smaller in size, he should have no problem fighting bigger guys either. I'm not saying he should fight Jon Jones as that is clearly a mis-match, but he should fight Anderson Silva in my opinion.

Height has nothing to do with it. Carlos Condit walks around at 190-195, Anderson Silva walks around at 210-215; that is significant.

And I don't think he shouldn't fight Anderson, I just believe that that is likely the biggest issue in Georges mind with a proposed Silva fight.

 

[arashikag3]

having this super-fight may be good for the ufc business wise as it will attract more casual fans but at the end of the day, all it does really is log-jams the different weight divisions. you have title contenders having to wait or fight (and potentially lose) an interim fight while the champions go and compete at a catch-weight bout. not only that, the marketability and fanbase of the loser might significantly decrease because of these superfights, will the ufc be prepared to handle the backlash?

to address the gsp x silva fight. why should a man, who JUST came back from what was considerably a career-ending injury and fighting his toughest opponent in years, fight someone a) in a higher weight class and b) someone he knows can beat him?

 

[marvelman55]

I just hate the thought of screwiing around with the weight classes. Hendricks looked awesome last night, Fitch is on his way back. Henderson is due a title fight vs Silva. Why should these guys work their butts off and then settle for an interim title or secondary fight? Hendricks has the tools to give St. Pierre a run for his money.

I think what will happen is a #1 contenders fight between Condit and Hendricks in Welterweight. I'm not sure who gets a shot at Silva, but Henderson has been hoping for a shot at Jon Jones, not Silva. Silva needs some new contenders to step up, but he is king of a weak weight class.

 

[marvelman55]

having this super-fight may be good for the ufc business wise as it will attract more casual fans but at the end of the day, all it does really is log-jams the different weight divisions. you have title contenders having to wait or fight (and potentially lose) an interim fight while the champions go and compete at a catch-weight bout. not only that, the marketability and fanbase of the loser might significantly decrease because of these superfights, will the ufc be prepared to handle the backlash?

to address the gsp x silva fight. why should a man, who JUST came back from what was considerably a career-ending injury and fighting his toughest opponent in years, fight someone a) in a higher weight class and b) someone he knows can beat him?

I don't think GSP thinks Silva can beat him. I don't see why everyone thinks that Silva would destroy GSP. Silva is beatable, that was proven by Chael Sonnen, an inferior wrestler to GSP. Silva is the better striker no doubt, but GSP looks to have the right skills to beat him.

He also wants to be the best fighter in the world, so he might have to fight Silva if he wants that title.

 

[canucksfreak19]

I think what will happen is a #1 contenders fight between Condit and Hendricks in Welterweight. I'm not sure who gets a shot at Silva, but Henderson has been hoping for a shot at Jon Jones, not Silva. Silva needs some new contenders to step up, but he is king of a weak weight class.

While Condit put up a very good fight, he did lose decisively, Condit wouldn't be put into a match like that. Joe Silva doesn't usually put guys coming off of loses into matches against guys coming off of wins. The exception to that, I believe, is Nick Diaz. I can see them putting a Hendricks/Diaz match together, even though Diaz is coming off of a loss because they are desperate to try and get him into a title contenders spot. Diaz had that long winning streak, but he was beating a bunch of average, at best, fighters and only has one borderline top-10 win in BJ Penn. The UFC would need to try and legitimize him in some way. No better way to do that than put him in against the hottest fighter in the division who is coming off of wins against three straight top-6 fighters.

 

[newfiecomicguy1]

170lb - vs - 215lb do not even make sense.

 

[ToskalaTML]

Silva will never be able to drop significant weight, he's sponsored by Burger King.

 

[MMarch]

Height has nothing to do with it. Carlos Condit walks around at 190-195, Anderson Silva walks around at 210-215; that is significant.

And I don't think he shouldn't fight Anderson, I just believe that that is likely the biggest issue in Georges mind with a proposed Silva fight.

Condit weighed in at 169 for this fight with GSP, his normal weight is 170-180 and he's listed at 170 with UFC. Not sure where 190-195 comes from? I doubt GSP is 170 pounds every day, I'm sure he packs on a few just like every fighter. Silva is listed at 185 by UFC, he went up in weight to fight Bonnar but he is a middleweight and fought a light heavy. Silva does not walk around anywhere even close to 210-215, he weighed in at 202 against Bonnar and that was probably the most weight he has packed on in his life no? And he only packed it on to fight at that weight class right?

Jones is in a class all his own IMO, Silva/Jones would be interesting and I can see Silva going up a weight class if he really wants to prove something. I just don't understand when we are talking about "the best", Silva has proven already and is talking about again moving up in weight again if he fought Jones. What's the difference between Silva fighting up a weight class or GSP moving up a weight class? It's good for one fighter but not another? I think we put too much into height and weight with these guys, how many times have we seen "smaller" fighters take out "bigger" guys? Where's Tank Abbott when you need him, I miss the days when guys were willing to fight anyone no matter the size or weight, 4 inches and 20 pounds, meh who cares, I'll take on anyone!

 

[chadsexington]

I'm pretty much with Eugene here. Superfights to me don't make any sense unless there's semblance of the winning fighter's desire to represent the weight class of the guy he just beat, and even then, with no title on the line, he'd have to work his way to a title shot, or rematch the guy he just beat in hopes that he beats him again.

I don't watch boxing, but I usually follow the news closely, and last I saw, nobody was clamoring for Floyd Mayweather to superfight Andre Ward, and those two are considered to basically be the #1 and #2 pound for pound best boxers in the world (and oddly enough, I think 15 pounds separate their fighting weight classes.) What is there really on the line? Titles? Legacies? I don't mind calling this a cash game. GSP and Silva have nothing to gain from this fight outside of a quick payday. If GSP loses, he has to build his legacy back up while Silva can coast into retirement. If Silva loses, what he worked 6 years to obtain goes by the wayside. Not to mention, the loss sets either guy back in terms of being a draw and selling shows. The UFC can book boxing-style cards around either guy's fight where you can get away with co-mains like Sean McCorkle vs. Stefan Struve because the majority of buyers are just there to see the main event.

Just look at what happened to Manny Pacquiao when he "lost" a few months ago to Timothy Bradley. The Mayweather/Pacquiao talks have cooled down, and I haven't heard it mentioned outside of sports journalist circles since summer, when it was all I'd hear out of boxing media and fans. Nobody outside of loyal followers of the sport care how you lost, or how badly you got screwed. All they see is the red mark in your win/loss column.

GSP has no problem fighting guys smaller in size

I don't buy into that. Of GSP's last 7 opponents, all of them, with the exception of Thiago Alves are taller (Alves is an inch shorter) and all are heavier on fight night. Alves, in fact, used to weigh around 195-200 on fight night, and in his last fight against Kampmann, was in the neighborhood of 205 when he walked into the cage after he started a cutting routine with Mike Dolce. None of GSP's smaller opponents have been hand picked. They all had specific ramifications on his career at the time:

-Sean Shark: Had always fought in the UFC at Welterweight at the time - Winner was to be vaulted into the Welterweight Title Picture
-Matt Hughes: Hughes was champion the first time they fought. Second was for interim title.
-Matt Serra: Forced title shot due to Serra's TUF win. Also had to beat Serra to win the title back.
-BJ Penn: First time was a Welterweight Title Eliminator (Penn had also beaten Hughes and was a one time welterweight champion by then.) Second was Penn continuously calling out GSP until he accepted.

I think the animosity towards GSP (and believe me I feel the same way) is that he is a relatively safe fighter. He stopped taking chances after Serra got him. He has been mostly lay and hump into submission.

I'm sorry, but when you're at the top of your division, your opponents should be adapting to your style, not vice versa. I don't even begrudge Ben Askren for his fighting style. He made it to the top of the mountain, and his job is to stay there at all costs.

 

[chadsexington]

Condit weighed in at 169 for this fight with GSP, his normal weight is 170-180 and he's listed at 170 with UFC. Not sure where 190-195 comes from? I doubt GSP is 170 pounds every day, I'm sure he packs on a few just like every fighter. Silva is listed at 185 by UFC, he went up in weight to fight Bonnar but he is a middleweight and fought a light heavy. Silva does not walk around anywhere even close to 210-215, he weighed in at 202 against Bonnar and that was probably the most weight he has packed on in his life no? And he only packed it on to fight at that weight class right?

Naw...very few of the fighters that have to weigh in at a certain weight are that exact weight on fight night, unless the commission imposes a special exception on them. Anthony Johnson at UFC 142, for example missed weight by 12 pounds, and the UFC (it was a self commissioned event in Brazil) said he couldn't weigh more than 205 an hour before the fight, or it would be canceled. This is pretty rare though. I can't think remember any other really recent examples that this was (publicly) forced upon a fighter.

BJ Penn is the only major fighter I can think of offhand that stays around the target weight. When he fights at Welterweight, his weigh-in day weight is similar to when he walks into the cage. Outside of that, some fighters have huge disparities between weigh-in and the actual fight. Krzysztof Soszynski, Antonio Silva, Brock Lesnar, Thiago Alves, Gleison Tibau and Dan Hardy are a few of the UFC fighters that usually have a 25-30 pound difference between weigh-in and fight weight.

 

[arashikag3]

Condit weighed in at 169 for this fight with GSP, his normal weight is 170-180 and he's listed at 170 with UFC. Not sure where 190-195 comes from? I doubt GSP is 170 pounds every day, I'm sure he packs on a few just like every fighter. Silva is listed at 185 by UFC, he went up in weight to fight Bonnar but he is a middleweight and fought a light heavy. Silva does not walk around anywhere even close to 210-215, he weighed in at 202 against Bonnar and that was probably the most weight he has packed on in his life no? And he only packed it on to fight at that weight class right?

Jones is in a class all his own IMO, Silva/Jones would be interesting and I can see Silva going up a weight class if he really wants to prove something. I just don't understand when we are talking about "the best", Silva has proven already and is talking about again moving up in weight again if he fought Jones. What's the difference between Silva fighting up a weight class or GSP moving up a weight class? It's good for one fighter but not another? I think we put too much into height and weight with these guys, how many times have we seen "smaller" fighters take out "bigger" guys? Where's Tank Abbott when you need him, I miss the days when guys were willing to fight anyone no matter the size or weight, 4 inches and 20 pounds, meh who cares, I'll take on anyone!

these guys cut massive amounts of weight for the weigh-ins and rehydrate and pack it back on the 24 hrs following that. gray maynard walks around at 200+ and cuts down to light weight which is 155. johny hendricks cut down from 215 to 170 (according to mike dolce, his trainer).

cutting weight is not as easy as it sounds and it takes a huge toll on your body. putting on weight properly - weight that is comprised of functional muscle - and adapting your cardiovascular system to accomodate the extra weight, that also takes time.

***

anderson walks around at 220-230 and cuts down to 185, it's not that much of a stretch for him to fight at 205.

source 1
source 2

jon jones walks around at 230 and cuts to 205.

source

gsp walks around at 194 and cuts to 170.

source

***

so, will silva cut down to 170 from 230? probably not. will he cut down to gsp's natural weight of 190+/-? possibly. can gsp pack on 10 lbs of muscles without it slowing him down to meet anderson at 205? possibly.

tank abbott was in the heavyweight division where it's 205 - 265 lbs, he has to fight anyone weighing within that range.