What the card companies are missing?

What I want to see

2. Game used pieces of stuff other than jerseys. There seems to be more stick cards lately mostly by ITG but I would love to see more glove, skate and pad cards made again.

3. I would love to see a all star skill competition subset. Cards of players who have won different skills competitions. I would probably only be interested in the hardest shot but I am sure there would be interest in sharp shooters, speed skaters and goalie ones. Plus I am sure you could do some cool multi player card of the team skills competitions.

What their missing

1. Collation - I don't have the money for cases right now but I believe you should be able to get complete sets of base and easier insert set from a case.

2. Better knowledge of whats in a product before it comes out. I understand the excitement caused by surprises but as a player collector its nice to know what I am looking for when it first comes out and not finding out about other cards after a set is out for weeks.
Ya Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have only 1:

Figure out a way to put a long overdue end to patch faking. I don't care who, what, where, how, anything. Just do it. Tired of "Fake Patch" threads, Kenny, whatever.
Ya Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO not kid yourself. We are not their boss. As a collective, we have proven that despite their worst efforts, we will continue to give them our money.

Patch security is the single largest threat, other than apocalypse, to the long-term value of our modern day high-end collections. Until they (UD) do something substantive about this, I hope we all continue to enjoy this Fake-Patch Era, as it is sure to become referred to in the future.
Ya Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes LESS is MORE.
Do we really need 5, 10, or 15 parallels of the same fricken card?:foottap:
Or 5, 10 or 15 different cards of the same player in every set?:foottap:
:foottap::foottap:
 
WHat kind of patch security are you looking for? Somethng that authenticates the patch or something that destroys the card if the patch is removed?

Gomaz-4 years ago I was selling software, I just got back in to the game. If you got some innovative ideas, why not give me your top three?
 
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WHat kind of patch security are you looking for? Somethng that authenticates the patch or something that destroys the card if the patch is removed?

If removing a patch destroys a card so be it. It's essentially ruined anyway once someone switches out the 1-color patch for a 4-color or whatever...BUT unless you have a before/after scan of said card it's hard to tell if it's been switched. It can be resold and often is. So it's not really "destroyed" in the sense that the card is no longer usable. It's just a fake and someone can and usually is duped by it.

Sooo the thing that needs to happen is any/all patches that are originally placed on a card in the production process need to stay on that card. In other words, it ain't gettin' switched, swapped, faked, whatever. Period. You try and take that patch out....the card is ruined. I don't care how it's done. Set some sort of timer on it to explode if the patch is removed if that's what it takes.

When I look at a patch I want to know it's real, hasn't been switched, swapped, etc. Make it happen.
 
What card companies are missing is the pulse of our hobby, they have no clue what makes collectors jump. As far as patch window control the answer has already been done, see ice signature swatches.
 
WHat kind of patch security are you looking for? Somethng that authenticates the patch or something that destroys the card if the patch is removed?

All it would take would be some really high strength adhesive, so that it was impossible to remove the patch without destroying the card. Done.
 
I, along with many others, have stated ideas and suggestions on message boards several times over the last 4-5 years. I simply do not feel like getting into it AGAIN right now. So I kept my reply simple.

DO not kid yourself. We are not their boss. As a collective, we have proven that despite their worst efforts, we will continue to give them our money.

But to be somewhat constructive, how about putting Crosby in your base set. Wow, wasn't that innovative.

As for design, just shake it up a little bit each year, Just a little. I'm no artist so I'll leave that to the creatives.

Patch security is the single largest threat, other than apocalypse, to the long-term value of our modern day high-end collections. Until they (UD) do something substantive about this, I hope we all continue to enjoy this Fake-Patch Era, as it is sure to become referred to in the future.

You may have stated your ideas over the last 4-5 years but there was only one licensed company during those years. I agree during those years they were not listening.

Maybe I am the only one seeing it this way but the card companies seem to be paying attention to input right now.

ITG/Dr Price has always been great about asking people what they want and tries to work with collectors.

Panini people are on the boards and actively talking to people and seeing what they want. If I dont tell them what I want then I shouldnt be disappointed if they dont make it. The biggest knock I have seen on them is correlation and they said they are working on it. With them being new to the hockey game I will give them most of the first year to get the kinks worked out.

Upper Deck isnt nearly as involved on the boards but they seem to be putting their best foot forward this year and have made some big improvements.


I really dont feel I am giving away my money. The last 2 cards I have bought are 1. ITG Franchises Iafrate Jersey card 2. Dafoe to finished my 01-02 Tools of the Game set. So the first 2 things I asked for from companies in my original post were already made but I would like to see more of. If people are unhappy with new stuff that is coming out (I was one of those people) they should start buying old cards they like. If card companies dont come around to my suggestions I am still not out anything. Maybe I am not their boss but I do get to tell them what I find collectible. If they want my money they would make it. If they come out with an All Star card or glove, stick or skate card of Shea Weber I will buy it. Until then they dont get my money.

As for your Crosby base set comment. I havent seen anyone come up with the constructive thought about Ovechkin not being in UD1. While Panini hasnt said there will be a Donruss 2 this year I am guessing there will be and that the Crosby base will be in that.

I am not asking people to design the cards but what do you want ITG to do? More foil? Stats? Inscriptions? We all know they want a license but cant get one. We can say ITG needs a license but its just not a option. So their design cant have full action shots. But if your unhappy with it what would you like to see different? I personally think ITG has done a great job of changing up designs as much as they can without showing emblems. People have the right to want different designs. I am sure Dr Price wont mind switching it up. But a little feed back on how they can do that will help it go a lot further.

I agree that the companies need to do something about patch faking but until they do I only buy patch cards off people I trust. I cant stop people from buying them or force the companies to protect the patches. I can chose to not buy them. I know they still sell but at least I am not driving the prices up higher.

I guess I feel better asking companies for things that I would like to see and collect. Maybe I will get them. Maybe I wont. But just telling them I dont like what their doing surely wont get what I want made.

I picked your first comment cause it was the last one made when I read the thread this morning. When I commented on it I was trying to keep the thread on asking for things collectors wanted from companies. Not just complaints with vauge or no suggestiongs. I wasnt trying to point you out personally. I am only replying to your second post cause of your comments like "Wow, wasn't that innovative."

I wish you the enjoyment and fun in your collecting.
 
What card companies are missing is the pulse of our hobby, they have no clue what makes collectors jump. As far as patch window control the answer has already been done, see ice signature swatches.

The bolded part is why I created this thread. ITG is always asking what we want and now we have Panini on our boards asking what we want. If we dont tell them they wont know. We cant just tell them they dont understand us.
 
Here's what I would want.

UD: patch security. Show a little extra effort--stickers on the right way, the right patches in the right windows, etc.

ITG: leave the Famous Fabrics designs to the Famous Fabrics series. I can't stand these photo-less designs unless the memorabilia swatch is so big that it doesn't fit.

Panini: FILL. YOUR. REDEMPTIONS. Oh, and dufex. I love me some dufex.
 
Since Vegas knows what he is talking about, I'll ask him this question but anyone in the know can jump in:

What does UD have to go through to make the Team Canada cards and why don't they try to do other countries? Are the people in charge of Team Canada's licensing just more open to this sort of thing?
 
Cool thanks for the answer! Think fans would go crazy to see Team USA, Sweden, etc. though.
 
From my understanding each Country's hockey program has their own license. Some cost more than others. They paid a lot to get Team Canada in the mix. Last I remember Team USA and some of the international rights were too expensive to bring in.

The Olympics were out of the question. Costs were way too high to get an Olympic license.

Last I remember, the Olympics were over $1M for licensing.
 
Here is my attempt at providing a more constructive reply than my first one above.

Panini

Regarding Crosby and Donruss, This is the inaugural set of Post-Monopoly Donruss. My decision to purchase this product next year will most likely be based on my experience with it this year. Make a meaningful update and I'll buy it. But don't push it to the level of saving Crosby for it. The only good business reason I can think of, to leave Crosby for an update set of some sort, is to manipulate us into having to purchase something further during the 2010-11 card season. Me no like this tactic.

My other issue with Donruss is the grainy image quality similar to that of ITG. The 80’s ended 20 years ago. Why does it look like Panini is using technology from back then?

With respect to Certified, my issue is the volume of parallel's. Another manipulation. Player collectors are basically forced to go after too many similar copies of the same card. The term "rainbow", and player collectors' fascination with completing one, is the only reason for their existence. The effort needed to complete a parallel set is high. Very few collectors attempt these. And when they do, they try to sell them and if they do, it is at a loss. So other than finding the right player collector, and early, you are pretty much stuck with these dime-a-dozen cards. There is a glut of them added to the hobby landscape each year. Be innovative and come up with another way to fill the packs.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps there are hundreds of people chasing these cards. Panini, along with the other card companies, has HI and other boards at their disposal to use as a free focus group. No resources required. Set up a poll and see how many people do these sets. And how many player collectors actually collect a copy of every card? In a focus group in 2007 that I attended, in the context of Artifacts, Karvin made the comment that player collectors love parallel’s. He went ahead and pointed to me and said that “Jeremy will hunt for each different parallel of Hawerchuk”. I didn’t have the heart at the time to tell him that he was wrong in front of 30 people. I do not need every color of parallel simply because a card company decides to print them. Way too arbitrary for my taste. But it was his assumption that concerned me most at the time. The assumption that all player collectors chase all parallel’s. "If we print it they will come". I do not think this is true and rather think that player collectors chase only the cards they like. This may or may not include parallel’s and most often does not.

I set up at four shows each year in Canada and I ask just about every collector, who stops at my booth, what they collect. Most of them who are player collectors do not collect every card of their player. Only a handful does this. I also ask them to show me what they have picked up at the show and I can honestly say that no collector has ever shown me a handful of parallel’s from the “Parallel-Hell Era”.

So when Panini comes out of the gate with the parallel laden Certified, it concerns me that they are missing the boat on what collectors really want and therefore are flooding the hobby with garbage – literally, cards that no one wants.

But if Panini's market research shows that the hobby needs, and has room for, a parallel laden set from Panini and UD each year, then I guess I am wrong. But where is this market research occurring? I have not seen it.

And then Panini throws Proofs into Donruss. I pulled the Pitkanen. That's no hit. And no one wants it. Here is what I think of proofs:

proof.jpg


Here are my three suggestions for Panini
1. Cut down, way down, on the parallel's.
2. Improve image quality.
3. Put the biggest star of the game into series one of your low-end sets.

Basically, ease up on the overt manipulation.

As far as fake patches go, either ensure that tampered cards will be ruined, or archive images of your product. Simple as that. See below for some suggestions on how to do this. Or call me and I will tell you all the details from my experience at an actual pack-out. I can PM you my number.

UD

Karvin went to bat for us, as Chris can attest, but budgets and finance at the executive level of UD got in the way. Simple as that.

Karvin left UD before The Cup was packed-out this summer. UD sat on at least 75% of the patch cards well in advance of the product's eventual pack-out. PLENTY of time to capture images of all the cards. Now, we have our FIRST FAKE CUP CARD of 2009-10.

THIS SIMPLY SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

I proved in July 2009 that one person can photograph over 98% of all patch cards, from The Cup, in four days. I offered to do it again this summer but was turned down.

So here are some suggestions on capturing images of patch cards.

1. Let a collector do it for free. At least the images exist. Or put in the overtime and do it yourself.

2. Pay someone to do it during the pack-out of high-end brands.

3. Make it part if the shipping or receiving process. Do it when the patch cards are packaged to be sent to athletes for signature. Or do it when they are received back from the athletes. Just work it into the process somewhere sometime to ensure the future value and integrity of our collections. Please!

ITG

I love everything about this company and their product except for the redundancy of their designs. I am not asking for an immediate drastic overhaul. Rather, a slow shift towards something different. I would start with improving on the background graphics and the image quality of those designs. They are too pixelly in my opinion. Other than this, I love ITG, their product and their commitment to the collector.

I did ten sets from UM9 including the base. In UM 10, I am doing zero sets. Why? Because the sets basically look the same as last year, and the year before. I would have done Stick Racks for the 4th consecutive year but this year there are no pics and they changed its name to Stick Works. I would have done the 500 goal scorer combo if not for the fact that the designs do not do it for me. Add pics and it’s likely another story. I hope that UM11 will provide something nice and different.

If I were the head of a card company or a brand manager I would be all over these boards looking for insights and suggestions. Do polls. Pose questions and use this resource to its full potential. It is free.

Kudos to Doc Price and ITG for tuning in to this before the others and taking advantage of it. They say competition breeds innovation and as ITG has been exposed to the toughest competition of any hockey card company (by not having a license), the have also been the most innovative.
 
I don't mean to pick on anyones comments so far but it seems as though people are really givin' it to Panini.

I understand Panini's parallels in Certified. Certified competes directly with Artifacts. Did Panini take it a bit too far? Yes. I opened approx 6 boxes or so of Certified, (not all same case) I was thrilled to see I hit a hot box... only to be disappointed later on when I noticed all the parallels where not Mirror parallels, but platinum! Now there are that many more for each player, that pushes it a bit far.

With their Donruss release... i'm a Pens fan, and I didn't miss Crosby in the base set. As a matter of fact it would be nice to omit some of the big players out of some sets, so that some of the less produced players can get a base card in there. How often do we see threads where peopel with XXX player had a card.

Another issue I have with Donruss is value per pack/box/case. It would be nice if in the Fans of the game insert set (as it seems it may be inserted into several products during the year ((which I think is a great idea!)) ) that the hits be comparable in value. I thought I did alright hitting my Michael Ontkean auto, just to realize it is worth approx 10 bucks, but yet the Bieber $300? how could you not forsee a $290 price gap within the same insert set? Should have released the Bieber and Anderson later with Autos tht would be valued at approx the same, maybe in a higher end set later in the year.

3rd issue I didn't open my boxes from the same case. Collation was however terrible. out of nearly 2 cases opened that day at the LCS no one had pulled a Subban Rated Rookie.

I can't say much about Upper Deck, as honestly I haven't bought much UD lately, but here is some points all manufacturers can follow.

1. We only need 1 parallel heavy set a year. make it 3-4 levels at most. Other sets (ie:Black diamond, Series 1, Donruss) is fine to have a parallel but please only 1 of each base card.

2. Maybe skip some of the star players in some of the lower valued sets, give some other not so common players a base card without making the base checklist bigger.

3. Until an anti patch forging technique is developed, do some r&d for auto cards. ( I like auto cards better then jersey cards as a preference) so do a poll on here or other sites, see what kind of new ideas we might have for autoed cards.

4. Panini are you planning a set to compete with The Cup? If so start some sever R&D on anti patch forging then patent the process. I love Cup cards, but this would sink, high end patch forging, and it wold be to Panini's gain.

5. Some Pieces that are not always jersey cards, make a insert set called hat trick or something clever, and include a piece or skate, jersey and stick or skate, glove, stick etc...

If I can think of anything else I will update.
 
I don't mean to pick on anyones comments so far but it seems as though people are really givin' it to Panini.

I understand Panini's parallels in Certified. Certified competes directly with Artifacts. Did Panini take it a bit too far? Yes. I opened approx 6 boxes or so of Certified, (not all same case) I was thrilled to see I hit a hot box... only to be disappointed later on when I noticed all the parallels where not Mirror parallels, but platinum! Now there are that many more for each player, that pushes it a bit far.

With their Donruss release... i'm a Pens fan, and I didn't miss Crosby in the base set. As a matter of fact it would be nice to omit some of the big players out of some sets, so that some of the less produced players can get a base card in there. How often do we see threads where peopel with XXX player had a card.

Another issue I have with Donruss is value per pack/box/case. It would be nice if in the Fans of the game insert set (as it seems it may be inserted into several products during the year ((which I think is a great idea!)) ) that the hits be comparable in value. I thought I did alright hitting my Michael Ontkean auto, just to realize it is worth approx 10 bucks, but yet the Bieber $300? how could you not forsee a $290 price gap within the same insert set? Should have released the Bieber and Anderson later with Autos tht would be valued at approx the same, maybe in a higher end set later in the year.

3rd issue I didn't open my boxes from the same case. Collation was however terrible. out of nearly 2 cases opened that day at the LCS no one had pulled a Subban Rated Rookie.

I can't say much about Upper Deck, as honestly I haven't bought much UD lately, but here is some points all manufacturers can follow.

1. We only need 1 parallel heavy set a year. make it 3-4 levels at most. Other sets (ie:Black diamond, Series 1, Donruss) is fine to have a parallel but please only 1 of each base card.

2. Maybe skip some of the star players in some of the lower valued sets, give some other not so common players a base card without making the base checklist bigger.

3. Until an anti patch forging technique is developed, do some r&d for auto cards. ( I like auto cards better then jersey cards as a preference) so do a poll on here or other sites, see what kind of new ideas we might have for autoed cards.

4. Panini are you planning a set to compete with The Cup? If so start some sever R&D on anti patch forging then patent the process. I love Cup cards, but this would sink, high end patch forging, and it wold be to Panini's gain.

5. Some Pieces that are not always jersey cards, make a insert set called hat trick or something clever, and include a piece or skate, jersey and stick or skate, glove, stick etc...

If I can think of anything else I will update.


Speaking of auto cards, I'd love to see a set like the Frozen Foursomes they had in 07-08 UD Ice. In fact, outside ITG products and The Cup, multi GU/auto cards are rather rare.

And as for abolishing parallels, I'm particularly in favor of less 1/1s. Outside of Artifacts/Certified and very high-end products, there shouldn't be 1/1 parallels, period.
 
Just to pull the curtain back a bit, Panini is very concerned about the security of memorabilia pieces. I can't divulge too much right now but I can say that each piece of mem is "marked" and any forgery is detectable.
 
Just to pull the curtain back a bit, Panini is very concerned about the security of memorabilia pieces. I can't divulge too much right now but I can say that each piece of mem is "marked" and any forgery is detectable.

Has this "mark" been used so far or is it something that is currently in development for eventual use?
 
Thats great news to hear, hopefully before the biggest release of the year, you can "advertise" the counter-counterfeiting measure, without divulging how to recreate it. This will go a long way in adding security, to all of us collectors. It is a great tool to have, but can you imagine how many requests to check items you may get (especially on high end) if collectors don't know how to check themselves....


Just to pull the curtain back a bit, Panini is very concerned about the security of memorabilia pieces. I can't divulge too much right now but I can say that each piece of mem is "marked" and any forgery is detectable.
 
Panini has entered in a high-priced partnership with the US military to insert nanochips on every piece, but they can't tell us 'cuz they're being watched. It's the only logical explanation left.
 

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