Questions about the All Star Game roster selections...

zackmak

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I know the league has changed roster selection processes over the years, but I'm trying to set it straight for the 80s and 90s.

My understanding is that there was a starting line-up of players (one for each position, for each team) for EVERY All Star Game. So my first question is, was it always done by fan balloting from 1980 onward?

If the fan ballots only determined the starting lineup (12 players), who determined the remaining roster? From what I can gather from Wikipedia, the coach for each All Star team chose their remaining roster...but from 1992 and up, there was a committee of General Managers that chose the 'reserves'.

So at no point during those two decades did fans have a choice on who the non-starters would be...even if their combined ballots essentially ranked players via their ballot point tallies?

And lastly, is there a site that lists the starting line-up for all All Star Games from 1980 and up? It sounds simple enough, but Wikipedia has JUST roster lists for the years 80, 82, 84, and 85.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game


And the NHL official site only lists starting lineups from 1986 onwards.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=29185

Even Hockey-Reference.com, which is a great site for stats, only lists general rosters for All Star Games

https://www.hockey-reference.com/allstar/NHL_1984_roster.html

And funny enough, the NHL site also implies that there was fan balloting for who would be the starting lineup for the Rendez-Vouz 1987 matches. But this is the only site I found that mentioned that.

Can anyone shed some more light and/or point me to a 'complete' website for this kind of stuff?

Thanks!
 
I'm more hazy on that stuff than you.....

The wiki article on the 1991 AS Game mentions a few things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game

Seems like coaches had a big input on the teams back then. Milbury took Chris Nilan & Brian Skuderland as allstars (but both missed the game due to injury).

Muckler took Bill Ranford (who was coming off a Conn Smythe) but Ranford was booed in Chicago because they wanted Ed Belfour, who was having the best season of any goalie at that time (Mike Vernon was voted in as the starter, I guess). The article mentions that on Muckler's suggestion, the NHL moved to 3 goalies per team for 1992.

That was the first year that they brought in the Commissioner's Choice too. Pick a couple of players that are fan favorite / all-time great types - but are about to retire, and aren't really all stars anymore. I don't think they still do that, do they?
 
Yeah, I read the same thing. Very interesting. The All-Star game is so different now in selection process (some by the players themselves!!), team set up, and game length, that I don't even bother tying into the 80s and 90s, which are more on the same platform.
 
That was the first year that they brought in the Commissioner's Choice too. Pick a couple of players that are fan favorite / all-time great types - but are about to retire, and aren't really all stars anymore. I don't think they still do that, do they?

That was how Brad Marsh got in, right?
 
Keep in mind, throughout the 80's there were only 21 teams in the league... and there was no real easy way to have fans participate in voting. I seem to remember the coaches having a lot of input on filling out the roster, and the only caveat was there had to be at least one player from each team.

The commissioner pick was in play for a while where the commissioner would pick a player to participate and it was usually those guys that were on their way out... That was how Hawerchuk got to play in his last All Star game in 1997.

Cory
 
Well, after some more digging, I found some more answers. According to a few sources, fans selecting the starting line-up only began for the 1986 All Star Game (which explains why the NHL site only lists the fan voting results from 1986 onward). This info was found in a few places, including:

1. the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at https://web.archive.org/web/20081205081004/http://www.nhlallstar2008.com/FAN.HTM where a search brought up this website page:

http://www.nhlallstar2008.com/FAN.HTM


"FANS HAVE SELECTED THE ALL-STAR GAME STARTING LINEUPS annually since 1986, including the starting lineup for Rendez-Vous '87 (NHL All-Stars vs. Soviet Union), which replaced the All-Star Game that year. Prior to 1986, fan voting was used once, determining the starters in 1979 when the NHL All-Stars faced the Soviet All-Stars in the Challenge Cup played at Madison Square Garden in New York.

TEAM SELECTION

The 2007-08 season marked the 20th year in which fans determined the starting lineups for the NHL All-Star Game. From Nov. 13 through Jan. 2, fans around the world were able to vote online at NHL.com for six Eastern Conference All-Stars and six Western Conference All-Stars: three forwards, two defensemen and one goaltender for each team. In addition, U.S. fans could cast votes through Verizon Wireless cell phones. The top three forwards, two defensemen and one goaltender from each Conference comprised the starting lineups. A total of 12,417,872 ballots were cast."



2. It was also stated within some copy, summarizing All Star Games during the decades at https://thenhl.fandom.com/wiki/NHL_All-Star_Game which essentially comes from its mirror sister website
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game#1980s

1980s
"With the geographical realignment of the NHL for the 1981-82 NHL season, the 1982 All-Star Game was the first between the Wales and Campbell Conferences that featured players from eastern teams against players from western teams.

The 37th All-Star Game in 1985 marked the first time that honorary captains were selected for each team.

The Game also brought forth the notion of fan balloting of the starting lineup (already adopted in the NBA and by this time had returned (following a hiatus brought on by ballot box stuffing) to MLB; the NFL gave the fans the vote in the 1990s) as the game was suffering from having little media coverage. The idea came into fruition the following year."



As for how the starting line-up was determined from 1980-1985, this article detailed the 1982 game, so my assumption is that it was the same for the '80, '81, '83, '84 and '85 All Star games before fan voting took over in '86:

https://www.nhl.com/capitals/news/all-star-time-capsule-1982/c-463278

"In those days, the league was split in two conferences: the 11-team Clarence Campbell Conference and the 10-team Prince of Wales Conference, where the Caps here housed.

Twelve players (two at each position) for each of the two conferences were determined in a vote of 30 writers, three from each conference city. Writers chose their top three selections at each position, and points were awarded on a 5-3-1 basis.

Mike Bossy of the New York Islanders was the leading vote-getter among Wales Conference players with 130 of a possible 150 points. The writers voted in two players each from Buffalo, Boston, Quebec, Pittsburgh and the Islanders. Montreal and Philadelphia each had one representative voted onto the Wales team.

Islanders head coach Al Arbour was the head coach of the Wales team, and he chose the final eight players to complete the roster. Arbour was forced to take at least one player from Washington, Hartford and the New York Rangers, the three teams who did not have players voted into the Wales’ top twelve."

"Only five different teams were represented after results were announced for Campbell Conference balloting. Edmonton’s Wayne Gretzky was a unanimous choice (165 points) and he was joined by three of his Oiler teammates. Minnesota and Chicago each placed three players on the team while Toronto and Los Angeles were represented by one player each. Campbell head coach Glen Sonmor of Minnesota filled out the roster by choosing eight more players from the six teams unrepresented in media voting: Calgary, Colorado (Rockies, in those days) Detroit, St. Louis, Vancouver and Winnipeg."


So, the coaches picked the remaining line-up after Writers determined the starting line up. How many All Star Games before the 1982 edition was this selection method used, I don't know exactly, but I would guess it was implemented for the 1969 All Star game based on this site:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game

"As it turned out, this year would be the last in which the defending champions faced off against a team consisting of the "best of the rest" - NHL president Clarence Campbell hinted that the following year would be the first in which there would be an East-versus-West battle, citing that the game could be easily moved to different cities. The 21st classic would also be the last in which the teams were determined based on the previous season's First and Second All-Star Teams, a move supported by the absence of then-rookie Bobby Orr in the previous season's game and the fact that the game had moved to mid-season.."


This selection method continued into the 1991 game. For 1992 (and for the rest of the decade and maybe longer), the remaining roster would be picked by a committee instead, because of what 30ranfordfan mentioned in the above post, citing the link he attached.


That was the first year that they brought in the Commissioner's Choice too. Pick a couple of players that are fan favorite / all-time great types - but are about to retire, and aren't really all stars anymore. I don't think they still do that, do they?

According to this (at the very bottom of the page)

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=29002

Commissioner's Choice selections ended in 1998, along with the Honorary Captains selection. The site states Honorary Captains began at the 1990 All Star game...but that cannot be correct, as there were Honorary Captains in 1985 and up, according to this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37th_National_Hockey_League_All-Star_Game

"For the first time, the NHL named honorary captains for each team. Hockey Hall of Fame goaltender Glenn Hall was named the honorary captain of the Campbell Conference, while Guy Lafleur, who had retired only three months previous, represented the Wales Conference. Lafleur returned to the game four years later, and thus became the only person to play in the NHL after serving as an honorary All-Star captain.[2]"

That was how Brad Marsh got in, right?

Yes, he got it in 1993.
 

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