Cup Faker Alert: Has Kenny Ao resurfaced (The Infamous Patch Faker)???

How many people on these boards have unknowingly bought one of his cards?

I have - if not for the overall quality of the dealers at the Toronto Card Show, I would have been out 150 bucks thanks to this clown.

Money talks, for sure, but you have to hope that his family may have some measure of pride - are they aware that the golden boy is up to no good? Maybe the wrong time to ask, but what happened to his other buddy who I used to see all the time at the Toronto Show and has since disappeared - they used to roam around together.

How many different EBay accounts has he had? How many cards has he doctored?

I think Upper Deck would respond to an actual case, were it to arise. Is there a way for us as concerned collectors and friends of the hobby to take this beyond the forum? I'm not talking about personally taking this guy on, but it would be cool to somehow get a hold of some more concrete evidence like cross-referenced auction numbers, submit them once to the authorities with a date stamp, and then send a copy of that report to Upper Deck.
 
Dosent the Opp have a economical crime section ? Forgery, selling fakes, im guessing if an Ontario resident bought some bogus stuff and has PROOF (ex: card before/after) with a decent amount of cash money involve he could file a complaint.

Other then lawyers fees im guessing he wouldnt have much of a punition, maybe a probation to stay off ebay and 100m away from sportcards.:giggity:
 
NJDEVILS30 said:
How many people on these boards have unknowingly bought one of his cards?

I have - if not for the overall quality of the dealers at the Toronto Card Show, I would have been out 150 bucks thanks to this clown.

Money talks, for sure, but you have to hope that his family may have some measure of pride - are they aware that the golden boy is up to no good? Maybe the wrong time to ask, but what happened to his other buddy who I used to see all the time at the Toronto Show and has since disappeared - they used to roam around together.

How many different EBay accounts has he had? How many cards has he doctored?

I think Upper Deck would respond to an actual case, were it to arise. Is there a way for us as concerned collectors and friends of the hobby to take this beyond the forum? I'm not talking about personally taking this guy on, but it would be cool to somehow get a hold of some more concrete evidence like cross-referenced auction numbers, submit them once to the authorities with a date stamp, and then send a copy of that report to Upper Deck.
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If you look at the first thread about him I believe most of your questions will be answered. It was quite detailed and clearly pin pointed him as the patch forger that was lurking around the hobby for a long time. As far as his friend is concerned, I have not seen him at the monthly show for the past two months so common sense says he's part of this whole scheme as well. Sad and disturbing to say the least.
 
ugh....is about all i can say to this....

now i realize this is'nt upper decks' fault or ITG ect..ect...but in my opinion what NEEDS to be done is this, i've thought about this a few times and it seems to me to be the cheapest,quickest and most painless way for upperdeck to fix this problem and make themselves look good...when patch cards are made they roll of the production lines in sheet form...why not buy a digital camera and afix it to the end of the production line and snap photos of each sheet as they come off the press...then upload the photos to a website and label them as #15/25 or whatever...i give props to what jeremy did with the cup...but thats just way to many photos and time sorting it all out...this way for an entire run there would only be 25 photos needed and nothing but tagging them as 1/25..2/25...3/25 ect...to complete....unless i'm missing something this should be quickest and cheapest way around this problem...again i know it has nothing to do with upperdeck however if i were in there shoes this seems like a no brainer!

if your ever gonna listen this is the time boys....


Geoff
 
NJDEVILS30 said:
Maybe the wrong time to ask, but what happened to his other buddy who I used to see all the time at the Toronto Show and has since disappeared - they used to roam around together.
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i've seen tom on this site and he has posted so i am not sure if it's just a case of kenny dragging him down with him. but if tom is involved in any way then i am hugely disappointed.
 
Triple B said:
Well, not really...but kinda. I'm surprised simply because of all of the hot air being blown around. "I'm going to do this", "I'm going to do that" and nothing is being done. He seemed to take a break and when he saw the coast was clear, he went right back at it again.

Personally, I don't even care any more. He's been given the ability to continue to do it and the people who have the money to do anything about it (cough*Upper Deck*cough) isn't.

I know not to buy anything from him, the handful of people here know not to buy anything from him (except the few in this thread who aren't sure and actually might buy something from him) but the masses don't and that seems to be fine with everyone else. Wake me when the manufacturer steps in the room.
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The only problem with that is that he keeps using new ebay user id's and thus fooling people who unexpectedly keep picking up his cards. Alot of people know to stay away from him, but how do you not get burned on ebay, when all 3 of his newer user accounts have 100% feedback and that you don't know it's him behind the user name.

It's a tough call but I am glad alot of good people work together on this site to call out these scumbags!!
 
Here is my take on the whole patch forging issue:

Form here on in Upper Deck needs to take care of business once and for all to maintain credibility with the collector community. Why can't they spend at most a few thousand bucks and photgraph all the patch cards that come down the line for the high end products where cards go for sometimes thousands of dollars a piece. They have to show the collectors that they are willing to protect the people who put money in their pockets (we've done out part now do yours). This passive approach by Upper Deck needs to stop NOW.

I by no means want this to turn into another Upper Deck finger pointing instance but from here on in they need to insure they are circumventing such altering tactics which are becoming more commonplace. This only continues to hurt THEIR bottom line and the collecting hobby as a whole. How to combat the current altered cards?? Well that is neither a simple nor easy answer to give, going to the police probably won't resolve this issue (plus how do you prove they altered the cards beyond a reasonable doubt??).

As a group I think we need to continue to look out for each other by sharing databases of cards and watching patch forgers on Ebay and at shows. We obviously can't protect everyone but lets make sure if we see any of our own bidding on these cards we inform them. Hope this sheds a bit of light on a frustrating situation.
 
Ummmm....playing devils advocate here, but does anyone have concrete proof that the recent cards sold were faked/tampered with? The first case was successful because Bruce, Dean, Jeremey and the gang had before and after photos. There was definitely undisputed evidence. Although his reputation is **** it's pure speculation the current cards sold/listed are forged. Obviously my gut says (knows) the cards are shady but the OPP may not view this as the same.
 
Really UD doesn't even need to photo all the cards. Just post a list of all one color patches and respective serial numbers. That would be a start.
 
I'd hope that Tom wasn't/isn't involved in this, and if he is I am beyond disappointed.

Not too many saints left in this hobby.
 
deankal said:
The only problem with that is that he keeps using new ebay user id's and thus fooling people who unexpectedly keep picking up his cards. Alot of people know to stay away from him, but how do you not get burned on ebay, when all 3 of his newer user accounts have 100% feedback and that you don't know it's him behind the user name.

It's a tough call but I am glad alot of good people work together on this site to call out these scumbags!!
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You hit the nail in the head with that comment Dean. I personally am more upset with Upper Deck than I am anything else at this point. I believe it's their job to protect their customer base (as I know I would with my business).
 
FrankToronto said:
It's a double edged sword. This shouldn't be viewed as UD's fault and that therefore they should provide (read: pay for the) solution. If they do then the costs will be transferred onto the consumer and we'll all be blaming UD for not providing enough value in their breaks. While we should expect UD, ITG, and all manufacturers to do what they can to ensure integrity in this hobby, we should also pay heed to the fact that they aren't the criminals.

As I make this statement, I also realize I'm not providing a any solutions that are win-win. To be honest, I don't know what the best solution is. First thing that comes to mind is that if there were a lot less product releases then the hobby as a whole can keep track of what's real and what's not a heck of a lot easier. Therefore, these fakers would see that there is less opportunity to make money by scamming.
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I don't think anyone is blaming UD for this, however I think collectors ARE looking to them to protect the integrity of their own products. This affects collectors collections and dealers' profits. IF UD took the initiative to catalogue their cards, this wouldn't happen.

gomaz put together the database for this year's Cup cards, but even he admits that the task is daunting. I've questioned why a collector should have to do something like this (whether they're passionate about it or not). This IN NO WAY should be the responsibility of collectors...this should be on the manufacturers time and dime.

If nothing else, 3M the hell out of the inside of window of the card. Want to change the patch? Good, then you destroy the card in the process.
 
I am also not blaming UD in any of this but in my opinion if cards are being faked, people will eventually and slowly STOP buying singles off ebay and at shows. This will eventually and slowly HURT case breakers and the turn and burn crowd. They will eventually and slowly stop SPENDING so much money or stop completely which will hurt UD's bottom line at some point.

It could take 5 years but at some point UD will have to do something to help fix this situation before it ruins their business. Do they not see this?
 
I'll be honest, This is why i REFUSE to buy a high end patch card. I think I've bought only one off of here because I trusted the person I bought it off of, who got it from a case break. I will continue to refuse to pay my hard earned cash for something that could be fake. I'm in no way saying UD or ITG is wrong in this situation, what someone does with the card once it leaves their hands shouldn't be hung on them. However for low numbered patches or and GU pieces, I highly doubt that it would cost a fortune to have pics of the cards stored .. even if its the one color patches only,and have the serial number of that card on some sort of online database.

Protects the buyers and exposes these douchebags
 
Triple B said:
gomaz put together the database for this year's Cup cards, but even he admits that the task is daunting. I've questioned why a collector should have to do something like this (whether they're passionate about it or not). This IN NO WAY should be the responsibility of collectors...this should be on the manufacturers time and dime.
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True it is a daunting task to a collector. The difference here is that UD should hire someone to take the pics and sort them. Then it no longer becomes a daunting task, it becomes a job!!!
 
No No No.....The other Steve said:
True it is a daunting task to a collector. The difference here is that UD should hire someone to take the pics and sort them. Then it no longer becomes a daunting task, it becomes a job!!!
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Bingo, we have a winner. Maybe they could spend less money on a lot of the extravagent and unnecessary things they do that add up to over $30K a year, and use the money to employ someone to document their high end products. But what people are assuming is that UD cares about what is happening, which I don't believe for a second.
 
I hate the thought of the tampering, but I also really don't know why UD should take on this task. The quote below does make sense.....

"I am also not blaming UD in any of this but in my opinion if cards are being faked, people will eventually and slowly STOP buying singles off ebay and at shows. This will eventually and slowly HURT case breakers and the turn and burn crowd. They will eventually and slowly stop SPENDING so much money or stop completely which will hurt UD's bottom line at some point. "

... however, they are a friggin MACHINE. The secondary market has little to do with their sales outside of this point. Pontiac could care less how I soup up my G5; they have their money.

The sad reality of this situation is Buyer Beware is the only true defense. And possibly a flurry of punches to the mouth when he/ she/ they pop up at a show and someone who has had enough has had enough.....
 
sprague11 said:
I'd hope that Tom wasn't/isn't involved in this, and if he is I am beyond disappointed.

Not too many saints left in this hobby.
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if that comment is directing to me, no, I was not involved in this whole ordeal, as i am currently taking a break from this hobby all-together

there is no proof that these 3 sellers are the same person, but frozenfour67 is him, as he is selling his Hornqvist auto shield 1/1 he pulled from 2 expos ago
 

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