RGM81
Verified Trader
My guess is that you won't get too many takers, since most of the people who are airing grievances about Vault probably don't own any.
But I like that approach. I'll try it with SPA in a couple weeks. LOL
It's Getting Personal Now
- Thread starter craxz
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My guess is that you won't get too many takers, since most of the people who are airing grievances about Vault probably don't own any.
But I like that approach. I'll try it with SPA in a couple weeks. LOL
cardsrus1
New Member, Must Send First
What we are seeing is the byproduct of the no redemption stance. Had they used redemption's like the other companies they would have been handing these cards out like candy (minus the stamps I should add) through the years. The end result is thousands of "extra" cards piling up year after year, release after release. The only issue I have are the perceived backdoor/front door cards that seem to be also coming out that are not stamped. That is where the real issue is at, not the stamped vault cards.
adamslogik
No Trade Group till June 14
I can't help but think that all of the people who are not seeing a problem with this would feel a bit differently if all of the sudden Upper Deck released a Vault type product and contained 3 different 1/1 stamped versions of 2005-06 Crosby Black 1/1 Rookie, or some stamped 1/1 versions of Ovechkin Cup ARP's originally serial numbered to /99.
It would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who tried so hard to acquire one of these 2 cards, as are the VAULT products to player collectors who take pride in the fact they they acquired many very limited release cards, only to have extra copies pop up online years later at a fraction of the cost.
I agree that the memorabilia should have been removed and made into new cards, the 2 Vault products were a cash grab, pure and simple, with no regard to loyal ITG collector or the troubles that they have gone to in order to find some incredibly limited print run cards.
It would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who tried so hard to acquire one of these 2 cards, as are the VAULT products to player collectors who take pride in the fact they they acquired many very limited release cards, only to have extra copies pop up online years later at a fraction of the cost.
I agree that the memorabilia should have been removed and made into new cards, the 2 Vault products were a cash grab, pure and simple, with no regard to loyal ITG collector or the troubles that they have gone to in order to find some incredibly limited print run cards.
brian045
New Member, Must Send First
As a lafleur collector, with these vault releases, the patches that were inserted into boxes IMO were way better than the vault releases. Im glad that more cards of my player were released, If there is an upgrade ill take it. If not, ill move along. As I grow older, the less these type of situations bother me. If one of my main worries is " too many lafleur cards being released" then ive got it reeeeeeaaallll good!
golgo13
Verified Trader,
I dont think the comparisons to Crosby and OV Cup ARP's are accurate considering ITG was cut out of having true RC in their product.....and thats really what drives crazy prices in the hobby.....
GabbyGuy
Upstanding Member,
My opinion......stop bashing the Vault cards...you knew what they were going in (STAMPED overstock cards...not original products). The originals' print runs are not affected.
Dr. Price was looking out for the collector with these Vault releases. Allowing collectors to get real game-used cards at a reasonable price versus just trashing/burning all the overstock product they kept on hand for replacements, future shows, etc. At least they didn't back-door their extra cards which WOULD affect original products. The STAMP lets collectors know this IS NOT an original product inserted card.
If you don't like them, don't buy them. But to me as a collector of vintage game-used cards, not a card flipper looking at them for quick $$, I'll be glad to add them to my collection knowing they have REAL game-used memorabilia and not a photoshoot card (I could bash photoshoot cards right now, but I won't). If you are a collector of photoshoot rookie cards, then go for it...what collecting is about...collecting what YOU want.
Collect what you want and I'll do the same.
Thanks for allowing me to post MY OPINION on this forum. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and shouldn't get hammered for expressing theirs.
Happy collecting! :beer:
--Curt
Dr. Price was looking out for the collector with these Vault releases. Allowing collectors to get real game-used cards at a reasonable price versus just trashing/burning all the overstock product they kept on hand for replacements, future shows, etc. At least they didn't back-door their extra cards which WOULD affect original products. The STAMP lets collectors know this IS NOT an original product inserted card.
If you don't like them, don't buy them. But to me as a collector of vintage game-used cards, not a card flipper looking at them for quick $$, I'll be glad to add them to my collection knowing they have REAL game-used memorabilia and not a photoshoot card (I could bash photoshoot cards right now, but I won't). If you are a collector of photoshoot rookie cards, then go for it...what collecting is about...collecting what YOU want.
Collect what you want and I'll do the same.
Thanks for allowing me to post MY OPINION on this forum. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and shouldn't get hammered for expressing theirs.
Happy collecting! :beer:
--Curt
Jester240
Registered Trader
If UD made a Vault set while staying in busines, I would be upset. But if they did it while going out the door like ITG I would shrug just like I am with ITG.
Also UD doesn't do the same type of show redemptions as ITG. ITG would use the same cards that were in sets. UD create separate cards for redemptions.
incetardis
New Member, Must Send First ,
man, the amount of slaps in the face in this thread!
holygoalie
Verified Trader ,
Even with ITG collectors aplenty telling you to the contrary you are going to believe what you want to believe. Thank goodness most of us ITG collectors realize this to be the steaming pile of bull pucky that it is. :duh:
C55
Verified Trader,
Well, I'm working on the 05-06 Cup set and need those two big cards. Nonetheless, I would not consider stamped versions released 10 years later in a different product as copies that would compete my set. No, I would need the originals.
By the same logic, supercollectors still need the original, pack inserted copy regardless of whether a stamped version is released later.
Again, the OP himself said that the stamped cards carry a scarlet letter. It would be a different matter entirely if the cards were not stamped and/or were backdoored as happened in the 90's. This is not what happened.
craxz
New Member, Must Send First
I love ITG cards. I even continued to buy ITG cards after they weren't licensed by the NHL. No logos, no full pictures on cards, etc. I still bought and invested my time and money in collecting going by their representation how limited each card was.
If I knew then a card out 10 is really out of 15 I would not have spent what I did-taking into consideration the time it will take me to possibly find a card like that again.
I don't hate ITG. I like ITG, but this card which is 14-15 years old should not have been released. If it was a going out of business sale with products from the last year or two...okay understandable. 15 YEARS?
Its like printing money.
If I knew then a card out 10 is really out of 15 I would not have spent what I did-taking into consideration the time it will take me to possibly find a card like that again.
I don't hate ITG. I like ITG, but this card which is 14-15 years old should not have been released. If it was a going out of business sale with products from the last year or two...okay understandable. 15 YEARS?
Its like printing money.
JonX
Verified Trader,
i too think this is the best post so far. do we need a topic about the vault products every week. i for one like the products and have bought a couple of boxes and took in some group breaks and some pieces are now pc. if you dont like it dont buy it.
geschrocks33
Verified Trader,
1st of all - This here is hands down the best post in this thread
Here's my opinion (and I bet some people will get mad/irritated) but whatever.
The people concerned too much with values/profits - hate Vault. The people that just want cool stuff for their collection - love Vault.
All I will say
frankiefives
Verified Trader,
I have a 3 word message to everyone:
GET. OVER. IT.
GET. OVER. IT.
pwag31
Verified Trader,
I opened two boxes of it and I thought the value was much better then the majority of products I have opened in the last year. ( I may have been lucky with the 2 boxes I opened though ). And it had some very cool cards in it, especially anyone who collects vintage.
habscards
Registered Trader,
In the last week did Upper Deck not announce that they are doing an all buyback auto product?
I remember the sale sheet saying that their will be buyback auto Young Guns /25. Now I am not sure if they bought back cards, used up old inventory or fired up their printing press. If 25 new Crosby Young Guns show up will the original ones lose value?
Not trying to throw gas on the fire but I just find that a lot of hate gets thrown towards ITG. When Upper Deck has a buyback product let's see how many Upper Deck hate comes.
I remember the sale sheet saying that their will be buyback auto Young Guns /25. Now I am not sure if they bought back cards, used up old inventory or fired up their printing press. If 25 new Crosby Young Guns show up will the original ones lose value?
Not trying to throw gas on the fire but I just find that a lot of hate gets thrown towards ITG. When Upper Deck has a buyback product let's see how many Upper Deck hate comes.
No No No.....The other Steve
Pageant Queen ,
Not the same.
#1 The cards will not have a stamp being the same old with a stamp but will be enhanced with an auto then numbered.
#2 UD does not have a stated print run on cards, if they do it is individually numbered, thus a card #/10 will not have 3 extras with autos. If it was originally #/10 the numbering will state that and in turn decrease the stated print run not increase it.
#3 If you read the buyback post you will note that UD was at expo and purchasing cards for this product. Will all cards be purchased on the secondary market? I don't know but I do know that a lot were and not all of them were sitting around in a replacement vault.
I'm with the op on this. Why are 15 year old cards coming out now? Why were these cards not destroyed or repurposed years ago? Sorry but in my opinion these cards do nothing but hurt the values of ITG'S original releases even more so than the multitudes of show stamped versions.
holygoalie
Verified Trader ,
Pretty well sums it up. I thank those who are so put off by Vault that they are not buying it but leaving more for us collectors that do. I will take real game used memorabilia over photo shoot jerseys, old timers games jerseys, wrong jersey on card, upside down autos, every day of the week. Mmmmmm, give me more, lol! Collect what you love and leave what you don't like for the rest of us that do! :goal:
spiral8
Verified Trader
Hmmm...that's an interesting theory.
Allow me to expand on your argument
Several years ago, when ITG first introduced show stamped parallels of GU cards that you'd normally find in packs, people should've said "Hey, I wonder why they're doing this? How many of these cards did they really produce? Why don't these cards have proper serial numbering on them?" Instead, most collectors thought "Cool! Look at this sweet GU card I got for opening some packs at the ITG booth!"
It never really dawned on most of us just how many show stamped cards were created of each GU card in ITG products until we were drowning in them.
I'm sure most of the Vault series of cards are replacement cards and cards that were destined to be show stamp cards but just never got stamped for one reason or another.
My personal belief is that cards like this that are so old that they couldn't reasonably be used as product replcement should have their GU/autos harvested and then be destroyed. However, that's asking the company destroying the cards to leave potential profits on the table, and that's not likely to happen.
At the end of the day NO ONE should be shocked that the Vault series of products has littered (I think that's an appropriate term, because this stuff is garbage) the market place with "leftover" product.
RGM81
Verified Trader
Not quite apples to apples being compared here. A buyback product is not the same as releasing existing stock. As the name implies, UD went to the market (presumably) for the (majority of the) cards that are going to be included in its 2015-16 buyback release; there's a comment in that thread from a member here about one of the UD guys buying up lots at the last Expo. ITG went to their old storage boxes for theirs.
Additionally, comparing a "new" and stamped copy of an original card with a stated print run of 1, 4, or 9 is not quite in the same ballpark as a card from the massive Young Guns card print run being taken out and autographed. What do they figure it is for YG's? 5,000-6,000 or so? Not the same. In some instances the availability of cards has doubled, tripled, or quadrupled depending on how many of Ruby, Emerald, and Sapphire exist.
One area where they may run into some hostility will be with those 2007-08 Artifacts rookie parallels. Quick story on these: Originally, the 2007-08 Artifacts Redeemed Rookies didn't have parallels. Unfortunately some way some how they issued more than 599 redemption cards, 599 of the rookies got redeemed, and there were still unredeemed cards on the market. So they had to do up a series of parallels until the redemption cards expired. It was quite a bit of fun as you submitted your redemption and they'd send a random parallel to you. I don't know how many of each guy made it to market, but those guys hit some serious dollars, even the /50 Golds, which I had two of for Price at varying points.
But even then, collectors go by print run and not "made it to market run" with this stuff. To borrow the ITG argument, if UD printed 25 copies of a Toews Artifacts rookie parallel and only 22 got sent out, shouldn't collectors have a chance to own these great cards? What is UD supposed to do, destroy them? Instead they've done some "value added" work and made them potentially even more desirable since they'll have hard-signed autos and presumably COA's to help authenticate.
But I think that the biggest issue of all people will have will be the price point and the inevitable stinkers that get pulled. Congratulations, for your $65 pack you have an autographed 2014-15 Rob Zepp YG!
Bottom line: not every thread/product discussion has to degenerate into ITG vs Panini vs UD vs Topps vs Leaf in some grand cardboard-making Royal Rumble. Each thing can stand on its own and be criticized by people on the Internet in any number of ways.
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