Leaf Exclusive Nico Hischier

[SNobles]

Ask the right question...

Do you stores want more choices for consumers? Do you want competition that drives everyone to be better?

Asking the right question is everything..


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I think I asked the right question. It was directed at the hobby shops that are trying to sell products. I still am waiting for one of them to reply.

I do not believe any of them were asking for you to do anything for them.

I am in the same camp as many others. It is your business and you are well within your right to run it how you see fit. I personally do not think what you are doing will help anyone but yourself but that is just me. We will see how it all plays out.

 

[LeafCeo]

Not the same thing. If I have an opportunity to buy a Shea Weber Kelowna Rockets licensed auto or a Shea Weber Montreal Canadiens licensed auto, the latter will win 10/10 times.

At least he as a CHL option


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[lucscaps]

Don't forget, we are already gave you fully licensed Nico autograph cards in Metal Hockey (and upcoming Heroes and Prospects hockey)... they are fully licensed with logos! At least you have a CHL option


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you missed his point, he said NHL rc's.

I follow the Guelph Storm and may pick up a Ryan Merkley auto in Metal when the time is right but don't confuse that with the fact we are talking NHL rc's.

 

[RGM81]

At least he as a CHL option


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Which I did take advantage of many years ago. LOL

But you know how hockey collectors are--most tend to trend heavily towards the NHL option when both are available. Unless you actually saw the guy play for the hometown team during his junior days, there's not the same connection with the CHL option as there is when he's wearing your favourite NHL sweater. I've been lucky over the years having two guys I collect heavily do both.

 

[FrozenInferno]

I guess it's just me, but why is the auto'ed rookie card such a big deal? Those of you complaining about the SPA or Cup non auto'ed rookie cards sound like trained seals. It appears to me that you're upset because UD has convinced you that autograph has an incredibly high intrinsic value, in some cases, a 1000x what they pay for them.

It's not about dollar figures, how much value one companies' wax provides over another, or any of that stuff. At least none of my arguments have mentioned prices or card values in any way. It's about the fact that collectors can not add those particular cards to their collections because they flat out will not exist.

Don't forget, we are already gave you fully licensed Nico autograph cards in Metal Hockey (and upcoming Heroes and Prospects hockey)... they are fully licensed with logos! Problem solved.


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I've seen Nico's Leaf cards and though I do enjoy licensed Mooseheads stuff (I own several ITG cards of MacKinnon, Drouin, Fucale, Ehlers, etc) the junior level stuff represents a very small part of the overall picture. The bread and butter of a player's hobby presence will be in their NHL cards as that's where they'll spend the next 10-15-20 years. A player only has one chance (season) to get NHL RC autos and for the players under Leaf exclusives, that will not happen.

I haven't ruled out buying a Nico Metal auto though, they are nice cards. I've been holding out for something hard-signed but if it's not likely to happen I'll probably end up picking up a Metal Mooseheads auto at some point.

Okay, I really need to stop typing now Thanks for the continued dialogue.

 

[LeafCeo]

Not the same thing. If I have an opportunity to buy a Shea Weber Kelowna Rockets licensed auto or a Shea Weber Montreal Canadiens licensed auto, the latter will win 10/10 times.

And, NHL made the decision that only one company could meet your needs..

Kinda presumptuous of them, huh?


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[foley2k]

This whole exclusive deal stuff will not go away. It is here to stay.
It is the way the hobby is moving. It is just another way to try and grab as much as the consumer cash as they can, while pissing off the other guy as much as they can, at the same time, flooding the market with autos of exclusive players.
There won't be an agreement that will make both sides happy. It will eventually be, "who can spend the most money to get the top picks". It will be the #1 focus for companies, that will take away from other aspects of products, like design, which I find lacking in most of any product released by UD and Leaf.

rant over, I'm going to go look at what B. Price has on his website.

 

[bprice]

As someone who swam upstream from the 2005-06 season to the 2013-14 season against the tidal wave thrown at me by Upper Deck, I completely understand the issues that Leaf faces to put out compelling products and give collectors an alternative to the current exclusive.

For collectors, it's a hobby but for manufacturers, it's a business.

Brian Gray and Leaf has to do what they believe their customers want. They extended an olive branch with respect to exclusives and Upper Deck responded by signing more key players. If you were Leaf's business partner, would you tell them to sit back and not fight back?

Exclusives are not good for the hobby but Upper Deck enjoys most of them including the NHLPA/NHL exclusive.

Upper Deck took In The Game's NHLPA/NHL license away, they took our Hockey Canada license away and then took our PHPA license by throwing large amounts of money at the licensors. That was business and so are Leaf's new exclusives.

Let's hope Leaf can get its own NHLPA/NHL license and give Upper Deck a run for their money on a level playing field.

Just my two cents worth.

Brian Price

 

[TheGriceBoys]

I have been a collector for as long as I can remember. Through the years, I have continued my patronage despite my many gripes: quality control, customer service, transparency, redemptions, sell sheets not representing actual product, etc. I’ve chosen to live with these issues because I really do enjoy the hobby and busting wax. But this just isn't fun for me anymore.

This exclusives fiasco has broken the camel’s back. I do not want to engage in a discussion about who is at fault/more at fault in this debacle. All that matters to me is this fact: Connor McDavid, Jack Eichel, Auston Matthews, Nolan Patrick, Nico Hischier and Joe Veleno are all signed to exclusives. I do not feel the need to describe how this situation is problematic for consumers. Those problems are obvious, and have been covered in detail throughout this thread and others. Even Mr. Gray denounces exclusives.

Mr. Gray, I appreciate your engagement with me through our many differences. And you will likely elaborate on Leaf's position and/or cast blame on UD in this thread, but I’m not looking to assign culpability. I am simply saying that this duopoly on RC Autos has killed my enjoyment of the hobby. Your stated goal is to end exclusives, and I wish you the best of luck. But I have no interest in paying for a front row seat to that fight.

You wanted to generate a consumer uprising against UD's use of exclusives. And in my particular case, your scorched earth policy has been successful, and then some. I want to be a part of this hobby, but until the current landscape changes, and consumers are not adversely impacted by this duopoly, you have both lost my business.

What should be most concerning to Leaf and UD is the ease in which I can walk away. Bowman was great this year, and I’m actually excited to put my hockey budget towards more baseball next year. You see the world as Leaf versus Upper Deck. I see the world as hockey versus everything else. Hockey just lost this round.

Regards,
Justin

I really like this post, the conclusion summarizes where I am at for the most part with hockey cards. I am almost totally out of the hockey category relative to where I was 4-5 years ago. At that time, I was collecting 3-4 player PC's, a team PC, still breaking some wax, and picking up lots of extras I probably didn't need. But hey, I was ENJOYING hockey cards in many different aspects.

I now do non-sport (mainly) and baseball (dabble). Both are much more enjoyable than hockey these days which is worrisome because hockey collectors are typically the most passionate. If you have a guy like me who was hardcore on hockey for over 30 years and I can't even stomach 90% of what is out there to collect or going on, that is indeed a problem.

I think a lot of it is the exclusives; I like to have a choice but the caveat being I want LICENSED choices. I know this isn't Leaf's fault necessarily but the vicious cycle is they don't make licensed cards which makes them aesthetically pleasing to me, and because of that they have to (want to) sign exclusive player deals to level the playing field from a business perspective.

This whole thing is a giant cluster and, as I do and continue to do, I will collect what I like here and there with regard to hockey and try to state my feelings here and there like this thread and hope things CHANGE.

If not, I have plenty of great options of things to collect and it's still FREE to come here and talk shop with some great people and have solid, productive and POSITIVE (for me) banter. That's the best part of the hockey hobby for me right now and really, it ain't that bad if you think about it.

 

[Shanahan1414]

Honestly I kind of want to hear the end game and best case scenario. What is the likelihood of UD dissolving their exclusive with the NHL or the NHL/NHLPA re-negotiating to include Leaf in the market? I feel like most collectors would agree that with a license, Leaf would pretty much dominate the market. Any chance of that happening anytime soon? If it doesn't happen any time soon, will Upper Deck be able to legally dissolve their exclusives? Seeing as exclusives are somewhat of a bragging right to them is this possible?

Thanks, Andrew

 

[LeafCeo]

I think I asked the right question. It was directed at the hobby shops that are trying to sell products. I still am waiting for one of them to reply.



I do not believe any of them were asking for you to do anything for them.



I am in the same camp as many others. It is your business and you are well within your right to run it how you see fit. I personally do not think what you are doing will help anyone but yourself but that is just me. We will see how it all plays out.

You miss the point... if they have choices they are MOST happy...

It's like asking a starving person if he would rather his sweater be blue or green.

Yes, it's a legit question, but not the most important question


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[LeafCeo]

Which I did take advantage of many years ago. LOL



But you know how hockey collectors are--most tend to trend heavily towards the NHL option when both are available. Unless you actually saw the guy play for the hometown team during his junior days, there's not the same connection with the CHL option as there is when he's wearing your favourite NHL sweater. I've been lucky over the years having two guys I collect heavily do both.

That's fair... of the NHL award one or two more licenses that will be perfect!


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[Sugar Ray cz]

All these exclusive deals which Upper Deck makes in the past and its about to make , becomes from their fear , what are they afraid of ? If You make quality products there is no reason to worry even if you have more competition then one company with license , those dilettants compete with one company whitout license for NHL cards and still doing this ? Why ?
They started with exclusive deals long time ago , they are so afraid of competition and not sure about them selfs that they need to doing this in times when they have monopol on NHL cards ?
This is really crazy , their own fear lead to this situation in my opinion , the battle will continue this way but I think You can only blame Upper Deck for that no body does more for this current situation then this company .

 

[LeafCeo]

Honestly I kind of want to hear the end game and best case scenario. What is the likelihood of UD dissolving their exclusive with the NHL or the NHL/NHLPA re-negotiating to include Leaf in the market? I feel like most collectors would agree that with a license, Leaf would pretty much dominate the market. Any chance of that happening anytime soon? If it doesn't happen any time soon, will Upper Deck be able to legally dissolve their exclusives? Seeing as exclusives are somewhat of a bragging right to them is this possible?

Thanks, Andrew

I don't know if either of us can dissolve existing deals, but we can supply each other autographs and STOP DOING DEALS!


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[notoriousrob101]

I'll give you an A for effort, yet if you really want to increase your market share why not sign some current stars to exclusives? At this point you may never get a licence, anyways. May as well go all in instead of side stepping with rookies who are going to teams that don't have a large collector base.

 

[LeafCeo]

As someone who swam upstream from the 2005-06 season to the 2013-14 season against the tidal wave thrown at me by Upper Deck, I completely understand the issues that Leaf faces to put out compelling products and give collectors an alternative to the current exclusive.

For collectors, it's a hobby but for manufacturers, it's a business.

Brian Gray and Leaf has to do what they believe their customers want. They extended an olive branch with respect to exclusives and Upper Deck responded by signing more key players. If you were Leaf's business partner, would you tell them to sit back and not fight back?

Exclusives are not good for the hobby but Upper Deck enjoys most of them including the NHLPA/NHL exclusive.

Upper Deck took In The Game's NHLPA/NHL license away, they took our Hockey Canada license away and then took our PHPA license by throwing large amounts of money at the licensors. That was business and so are Leaf's new exclusives.

Let's hope Leaf can get its own NHLPA/NHL license and give Upper Deck a run for their money on a level playing field.

Just my two cents worth.

Brian Price

Dr P,

No one is a greater authority on the topic and I respect where you come from with your experience.
Thanks for he support

BG


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[Craig2]

I think it's interesting that so many people have issue with the blurred-out sweaters that Leaf has to use for players, but at the same time spend hundreds or thousands on Cup rookies that feature completely manufactured patches...I'm not a fan of either one, but I find it funny that one is more acceptable than the other even though both are what I consider distortions.

As for the bigger argument here, it doesn't affect me much because I don't tend to chase many rookies beyond Ultimate Collection each year but I do sympathize with those who would like to see their player/team savior in their team's jersey. I don't blame Leaf one bit for doing what they're doing, but I can see how it might negatively affect the hobby in the short term to have dueling exclusives.

Leaf just needs to keep making ITG Used...my favorite cards the past two years, and I'm not even a vintage collector.

 

[Sugar Ray cz]

I'll give you an A for effort, yet if you really want to increase your market share why not sign some current stars to exclusives? At this point you may never get a licence, anyways. May as well go all in instead of side stepping with rookies who are going to teams that don't have a large collector base.

I agree with You Leaf should foucus on current NHL stars which are not signed cards for Upper Deck anyway and they dont care about them . For example Alexander Steen those types of players , not those free cool and in stars and overhyped rookies ,leave them to UD but fill the hole they left I hope there is many adult collectors whose looking for these players and mixed them up with your legends like LaFontaine , Modano , Hasek etc.
Panini doing the same thing they produced autograph cards of legends and current players which UD never makes .

 

[frankiefives]

Exclusives suck, period. Competition in any market is always best for the consumer. While I won't sit here and throw blame at one particular company I will say that this is all quite childish. And although each of you is doing what they feel is best for their business, it mostly pisses all of us off.

What I do like about this is it has forced UD to find more innovative ways to offer value in their breaks. Do we really need 100 different autos of every rookie? I don't think so. I'd much rather see cool sets, inserts and parallels accompanied with lower wax prices than be told I may have a 1 in 100 chance of hitting a superstar auto that keeps dropping in value year after year. Legends like Gretzky, Orr, Roy sell for peanuts now because the market has been flooded for ages. It's time for this hobby to go back to its roots.

Enjoy the top 2 picks in the draft Leaf. I really couldn't care less who has the exclusive. I do know that many people are unhappy after hearing this news though.


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[odjickfan]

I miss the days of liscenced UD, Pacific, ITG and Topps. Early 2000s are my favorite years of card collecting.