Leaf Exclusive Nico Hischier
- Thread starter malsk
- Start date
Bossy22
Verified Trader,
I always thought of myself as a hardcore (although lower budget) collector. Thinking back I haven't broke more than 3 boxes in the last couple of years. I use to do that in a month. I think ud has truly watered down the product so it is either homerun or eat my shorts. I have tried to do some leaf but each time I have made it to a store they are out 
Hope Leaf can change the landscape with these signings. At the worst, hope it makes ud put out a better product. I'm all for the signing! Great job leaf!!!
Hope Leaf can change the landscape with these signings. At the worst, hope it makes ud put out a better product. I'm all for the signing! Great job leaf!!!RGM81
Verified Trader
And that applies to virtually everything. I'm pals with the local Molson rep and last time we were chilling watching hockey we were talking about how around the turn of the century the great "beer wars" happened where Budweiser was buying up tons of local breweries and basically forced Molson and Coors to form partnerships to do same or else they would ultimately been bought up too or faced themselves squeezed out of the market because Bud could just impose their brand restrictions on retailers.
It's all big business everywhere now. The NHL has grown into a multi-billion dollar business under Bettman. That's why owners love him and he doesn't care what fans think of him. He's happy to have people chirp at him and be the face for all the things people don't like. As long as the owners are happy, that's his bottom line. And their bottom line is the bottom line.
All of that stuff has affected the hockey card world too. Upper Deck, Panini, and Topps are global players. They're more than happy to throw huge dollars at pro sports leagues to secure exclusivity with licensing. It's not a coincidence that every pro league in North America has an exclusive in this era. And if you look at message boards for any licensee in any sport, or the official social media pages, it's the same thing for fans everywhere: a lot of griping and negativity. Whatever we are saying about hockey and UD, basketball & football people are saying about Panini and baseball people are saying about Topps.
To what extent do sports leagues care about these types of dealings? I would be curious to know. What does the NHL say about no Eichel autos for its licensee's releases?
I'm just a guy that likes his hockey and his hockey cards. The last couple years have been interesting to see how UD has reoriented its releases to focus so heavily on key rookies. Last year McDavid, this year Matthews. The marketing is almost all about them. There's not even a #CollectCrosby even though the dude has just had another monster year and is two wins away from chasing his third Stanley Cup. And it's like a lottery for people. If you don't get McD or Matthews, it's a terrible break or you don't get your value back because all the emphasis on those two guys means nothing else will do.
UD wants collectors to do "healthy collecting habits" but they're in a lot of ways responsible for a lot of unhealthy things about the hobby today. Both companies currently have relegated set-building to the dustbin. All hits, all the time! I'm just as happy putting together a cool six-card parallel rainbow as many are when they get Toronto in a random case break and they haven't even seen the break opened yet.
Going back to eBay I said earlier, I hope that the Leaf signings bring about change in the way that companies approach the distribution model because right now to me a lot of it feels like pouring the same beer into a bottle and changing the labels because the brands are all owned by a couple larger corporate entities.
neo1370
Verified Trader,
It's the business these days. Congrats to Leaf for cementing themselves in collectors' minds by grabbing exclusives to some young up and comers. Hopefully one day they can get an official NHL license and make some beautiful cards more beautiful with NHL logos
JonX
Verified Trader,
Fleer also had a license in those days
webottew
Verified Trader,
Everyone keeps casting shade on UD and Leaf for the Exclusives, but collectors ignore the third horse in this race; the players! It's not like Leaf/UD have Eichel, McDavid, Patrick etc locked up in basements, signing autos all day. These players are willing participants as well. Perhaps the players don't care about the Hobby. Or perhaps they don't realize the effect on the Hobby when they sign these contracts. Maybe the player is only interested in signing fewer autos and earning more $. None of these possibilities are good for their image either.
UD and Leaf are obviously too far along in their battle for Exclusives to listen to outside sources. Perhaps collectors/fans need to educate the players & agents on their impact to the Hobby. If Leaf truly wants to put an end to Exclusives, they should also embrace the idea of players being more in tune to the Hobby and refuse the contracts. Imagine if players were as passionate as we are about the Hobby that celebrates their careers. When the desirable players begin refusing the offers, then player exclusives will go away.
UD and Leaf are obviously too far along in their battle for Exclusives to listen to outside sources. Perhaps collectors/fans need to educate the players & agents on their impact to the Hobby. If Leaf truly wants to put an end to Exclusives, they should also embrace the idea of players being more in tune to the Hobby and refuse the contracts. Imagine if players were as passionate as we are about the Hobby that celebrates their careers. When the desirable players begin refusing the offers, then player exclusives will go away.
walter5o9
Verified Trader
UD Signed an exclusive with Ben Simmonds....UD doesnt make basketball cards anymore.
Simmonds does not have any basketball autograph cards (outside of the extremely hard and rare goodwin from last year). that it. nothing else.
However you can purchase an autograph from UD, with the starting price of $274.99 going all the way up to $999.
So If you want a Ben Simmonds autograph card you chances are extremely rare.
Triple B
Verified Trader,
I was about to say something similar. I haven't had enjoyment in the hobby since the early 90s when we had UD, Topps, Pro Set, Score, Fleer Ultra, etc. There was so much to choose from, so much innovation and above all, a real sense of manufacturers actually trying to please collectors.
Now, we sit here playing the lottery every time we open a pack or box of cards. There are very few COLLECTORS left. People enter breaks for a shot at landing a big card for little investment. Card shops are held at gunpoint to order X amount of crap in order to get X amount of gold. Collectors are forced to wait months or even YEARS for a redemption card to be returned.
On an apples to apples level, I know I would have been PISSED if Leaf had signed Auston Matthews to an exclusive deal. They didn't and I'm glad. I will now sound hypocritical saying that I'm glad they are taking this stand and signing away players that mean the world to UDs bottom line in order to make a point to the NHLPA, NHL and their silly exclusive isn't fair to anyone except the ones with the exclusives.
The hobby isn't healthy at all. People are walking because of the *** kickings they take on box purchases. I always go back to UD telling one of the prominent collectors on this site that "we can't help your addiction" when asked about the cost of completing a set or buying cards in general and think that the exclusive isn't helping anyone's love of the hobby either.
You go, Brian. Fight the power by taking it away from them. Just make sure to not sign any Maple Leafs to exclusives
creasecollector
Verified Trader ,
I get where you're coming from with the Player angle of things, but no 18 year old kid is going to refuse a autograph contract. If two companies are offering an exclusive, the player will take the higher amount, no questions about it. They have no info about the hobby, and why should they? They're professional athletes who have a lot of other stuff to focus on than the effect on a hobby they may not know about, who involve people they will never know. That may seem kinda negative, but it's true. I don't blame the players for not knowing large amounts about the hockey card business or the hobby. Heck, I didn't even know much about any of that sort of stuff when I was 18. And I was a card collector! So I think it's unfair to expect a pro athlete to know the domino effect that an exclusive will have. That's not their job.
If I was an 18-year-old kid, and I had someone offering large sums of money for my autograph, then I wouldn't mind signing. That means easy money for me that I can pocket. Because who knows, the player may suffer a career ending injury and be back at "average Joe" level before they know it. It's rare, but it could happen.
I don't think a player is really at fault here. Yes, they are the ones signing the contract, but the atmosphere outside these things is what's so sour, not their desire to sign a autograph contract.
will-411
Verified Trader,
Interesting that I haven't seen any disagreements with this... only from the point of view that there was a lot of whining and complaining back then from collectors that there were TOO many products, and lots of collectors suggested there should be limits on the number of products each licensee could produce, which would make the business model unviable for the people actually making the cards.
Don't get me wrong - I loved it because there was a lot of choice and wax prices on middling products would drop quickly, and there were lots of ways to 'collect what you like', but there was a lot of shade being thrown around on the state of the hobby then too and the number of licenses!
Cory
will-411
Verified Trader,
These kids all have representatives (advisors/ agents) that have only one interest and that is maximizing the amount their client makes (and by extension, the amount the representative makes). Any agent that talked to a player about doing what was best for the hobby wouldn't have to worry about working much because the agent would have no clients.
I wonder what the NHL/PA thinks about these exclusives though, and if UD complains that the license they've been given isn't as profitable as expected given they're losing out on certain players... they may not protest too much for fear it affects the next round of negotiations...
Cory
oiler8
Verified Trader ,
I would consider myself a collector. I don't build sets, only open 3 - 5 boxes a year, and basically just buy singles of Taylor Hall. As a collector, I have very specific criteria for my collection. I only collect cards with just Taylor Hall on them, only in NHL (Super swatch exception) and only with the Oilers or Devils or All-Star jersey. I know for sure if Leaf were to sign Taylor Hall to an auto exclusive that I would buy (almost) ZERO of them. I absolutely hate airbrushed logo-free jerseys- can't stand it. I think it's the tackiest thing. I understand why it has to be done, but there are some ways around it. I have seen pictures that due to how the player is shooting/passing/moving etc the entire log is blocked out. I've also seen some nice aerial photos (above net) of goalies that shows just the name and number- no logo. Anyways, the point I am making is that if it came to that, my Taylor Hall Auto collection would be focused on NHL/NHLPA licensed products. That would be my choice. I know others would choose differently. It seems that the common thought amongst everyone is that we want more companies licensed. Personally I would love to see UD, Panini, Leaf and Topps all be given a 3-5 year go at it, see if the competition weeded out any of the companies or not.
I loved the early 2000's as well with the different companies, different choices. I actually loved all the parallels that Pacific put out - made for some nice cards, especially the Copper parallels with the Oilers- looked so nice.
Leaf- nothing against you, but please DON'T sign Taylor Hall to an exclusive.
NHLPA- License more card companies.
Exclusives SUCK.
My 2 cents, I'm a little tired, sorry if it didn't flow well.
I loved the early 2000's as well with the different companies, different choices. I actually loved all the parallels that Pacific put out - made for some nice cards, especially the Copper parallels with the Oilers- looked so nice.
Leaf- nothing against you, but please DON'T sign Taylor Hall to an exclusive.
NHLPA- License more card companies.
Exclusives SUCK.
My 2 cents, I'm a little tired, sorry if it didn't flow well.
Oh well - I made do without Eichel NHL autos in 15-16 products. I'm pretty much done with 16-17 except for finishing my UD Updates out of SPA. I may try a box here or there, but I don't feel the need to go after the high end stuff to chase autos. I'll get what I want, autos I want, memorabilia I want. When it piques my interest - I'll pick it up.
Life goes on - I'll find something else to go after - I've made a few dents in my baseball auto PC from the time I was done with SPA 15-16. I'm sure I'll find something else by this time next year...
Life goes on - I'll find something else to go after - I've made a few dents in my baseball auto PC from the time I was done with SPA 15-16. I'm sure I'll find something else by this time next year...
RocketRichard
Verified Trader
It's reasons like this why I don't collect anymore. I still lurk, and watch the hobby as it still brings me enjoyment, I still have my collection I have accumulated over 20 years of collecting, I just can't be suckered any longer to spend my hard earned money supporting these companies that really couldn't care less about the collector.
I understand why Leaf is doing it, to try and prove a point. And honestly I can't blame them. But the only one who gets punished in this situation is the collectors. The only way this garbage is going to stop is if we all band together and vote with our wallets. Stop buying and changes will be made. This hobby needs change and needs it fast.
Truth be told, I would love to see more companies get licenses. It's good for the collectors, but I personally do not want to see Leaf get a license. Not when this is the kind of product they put out.
I find that insulting to expect people to open their wallets and spend their hard earned money on an effort like this. I'm not sure what jersey that picture is, is it a kings PRACTICE jersey? Dr Price used to take care of the obscure player collectors. I miss his presence in the hobby.
I understand why Leaf is doing it, to try and prove a point. And honestly I can't blame them. But the only one who gets punished in this situation is the collectors. The only way this garbage is going to stop is if we all band together and vote with our wallets. Stop buying and changes will be made. This hobby needs change and needs it fast.
Truth be told, I would love to see more companies get licenses. It's good for the collectors, but I personally do not want to see Leaf get a license. Not when this is the kind of product they put out.
I find that insulting to expect people to open their wallets and spend their hard earned money on an effort like this. I'm not sure what jersey that picture is, is it a kings PRACTICE jersey? Dr Price used to take care of the obscure player collectors. I miss his presence in the hobby.
LeafGregg
Leaf Trading Cards
It's reasons like this why I don't collect anymore. I still lurk, and watch the hobby as it still brings me enjoyment, I still have my collection I have accumulated over 20 years of collecting, I just can't be suckered any longer to spend my hard earned money supporting these companies that really couldn't care less about the collector.
I understand why Leaf is doing it, to try and prove a point. And honestly I can't blame them. But the only one who gets punished in this situation is the collectors. The only way this garbage is going to stop is if we all band together and vote with our wallets. Stop buying and changes will be made. This hobby needs change and needs it fast.
Truth be told, I would love to see more companies get licenses. It's good for the collectors, but I personally do not want to see Leaf get a license. Not when this is the kind of product they put out.
I find that insulting to expect people to open their wallets and spend their hard earned money on an effort like this. I'm not sure what jersey that picture is, is it a kings PRACTICE jersey? Dr Price used to take care of the obscure player collectors. I miss his presence in the hobby.
To each their own. I do find it funny that you would point out a product that is among the hottest of the year as garbage. I wish we could have images of every player, unfortunately, not possible. You didn't enjoy the set, understood. Please don't speak for the many that did. People did speak with their wallets and spoke clearly, they wanted more. I find it insulting that you dare to condemn them for what they like. You don't want Leaf to get a license, so obviously you don't support our brand. Understood. Many would love to see Leaf get a license. Have a good day. Wait, when was the last time UD used Dan Cloutier? I am trying to get him for next years garbage Masked Men release, image and all
Rorschach
New Member, Must Send First
In a head to head battle, Leaf wouldn't dominate anything against UD.
To me the companies that have an exclusive but don't make the best cards that they could are Topps and Panini.
UD is the one company that innovates in a vacuum. And they're the one company that has stopped the escalation of cards getting rarer and rarer in order to be collectible.
Look at Topps, their best rookie card in the last ten years is the 2011 Mike Trout Topps Update that goes for around $150. It has a low print run and is not part of any factory set. It has a similar magnitude print run compared to Young Guns. Then look at Connor McDavid, Auston Matthews all the way to Sidney Crosby in hockey. The Young Guns that are worth $100+ is like a dozen different players.
This is because UD has kept the license and keeps making the cards in the same fashion for the last decade and it extends to other true RCs: /999 SPA FWA, the /99 Ice Premiers, Cup RPAs and Ultimate RC. When there was competition in the 90s, there were products that had RCs in the single digits (like in Titanium) which completely boxed out 99.999% of the collectors from owning one.
It's true that UD is a big company and doesn't go on message boards to talk to you but that's because they're doing their jobs; they innovate even in a vacuum of competition.
So my reaction is this: I will boycott all Leaf products and encourage others to do the same, including my LCS (from year to year I have bought a lot of Leaf non-hockey product). If Leaf wants to first land a NHL license and then sign players to exclusives, then that's fine because they can make their own cards with the player in NHL uniform. They way they are doing this now, whatever their reason, only hurts us collectors. So as a collector I will retaliate in kind.
The ends don't justify the means.
In the meantime all this will do is give UD a legitimate reason to sell even more high margin, low cost Young Guns. The Young Guns sub-brand motivates collectors to buy more UD base brand than all of Leaf products combined. Now UD, who will look like victims in this case to the majority of casual hockey collectors, maybe can make yet another RC that doesn't need an auto on it (like they did with Ice Premiers.).
I wonder how the NHL feels about this incident...
LeafGregg
Leaf Trading Cards
Apparently, Someone has never checked values of Bowman Chrome Baseball Superfractors?
Someone clearly wants a UDRAK.
There is not much that is accurate in this post. Sorry. UD does not innovate in a vacuum and their lack of participation has nothing to do with how busy they are.
Having worked their for 10 years I promise you that isn't the case. They don't come on here because they are told it isn't worth it as these boards represent a very minute portion of the collector base. They are told to stay away. Period. Nothing to be gained from interacting.
UD doesn't have to innovate when their isn't competition. They have slowly removed content year after year, slowly lowered the use of legends because they can!
Not here to get into any debates about UD, just setting some facts straight.
This is simply about Leaf competing on as even a playing field as we can.
LeafCeo
Upstanding Member , Leaf Trading Cards
Wow.... now this is a post that is refreshing...
I love your analysis and totally agree that UD "should" refocus on veteran content and quality products not so rookie focused.
My big takeaway is your Peter Parker analogy...
I TOTALLY agree and we will work hard to bring more hard signed!
Brian
LeafCeo
Upstanding Member , Leaf Trading Cards
Much of what you say is true....
In fact, I think UD does a very good job at many things....
However, playing in a legal and fair manner competitively (US legal stuff, which will become apparent in the coming months) and providing strong value for the customer are NOT things they excel at.
We WANT collectors to enjoy our competitors products.... A strong, fair competitive market is good for everyone. GIVE COLLECTORS CHOICES!!!!
We want you to buy whatever you like.... Leaf, UD , whatever....
BG
p.s.- we will miss you as a customer, but we cannot control knee jerk reactions and cannot roll over and play dead to the detriment of our business (AND INDUSTRY)
brian045
New Member, Must Send First
I agree with Richard, make some special memorabilia cards, buttons, laces, tags, jumbo patches etc. that with the auto will excite collectors and make the pull feel more special. Even as a HOF collector I'd be pumped to pull something super unique of those 2 players!
