Leaf Exclusive Nico Hischier

LeafCeo said:
Make no mistake, there will be some sticker content and some on card, but the number of stickers that were used on Eichel was too many in my opinion versus on card...

Please remember, these guys are not always available in season to sign on card... stickers are a necessary evil..

They just shouldn't unnecessarily become a crutch...

Brian


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Oh absolutely, Brian! I totally understand that stickers are a necessary evil in the current climate. Especially on releases that you prepare in season. But after seeing the breakdown of just how little on-card rookie content you had for Jack, I'm glad you can see that needs to change for your other exclusives moving forward.
 
Oilersareback said:
Mr President,

It seems you're only signing these exclusives to keep them away from Upper Deck. It appears like you put no effort into the design of attractiveness of your product. Come on man, sticker autos? They've been out of date for 15 years.
So long as you're going to be the only one producing cards of Eichel, Hischer, etc. why don't you at least do a proper job of it?

We're easy to please here
1. on card auto
2. "event" worn patch (have the player put on a jersey while they're signing the cards
3. rookie cards serial numbered to /99 for the top product.
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Honestly, I hate event worn jersey/patch cards - to me these are just another way of saying manufactured patch. Id rather there not be a jersey per box and have the real deal. If there was a real jersey/Patch (NHL) Hischier/Nolan autograph /99 out of a high end leaf product. Now Im intrigued....
 
yeah, c'mon... enough of this player-worn garbage:

xcqgn.jpg


when are we going to start holding these companies to a higher standard?!?!?
 
cremona71 said:
Player worn stuff exists because time does not allow game worn to be included at the beginning of the season.
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It exists because garbage companies like Panini put out 400 products a year based purely around selling to group breakers.

I wish this hobby would move away from game used and sticker autos in general. Vintage game used is one thing. Players used to only wear one or two jerseys per season. Now you can design an entire product line around event worn or "prospect game" worn cards with sticker autos.

Companies should also be held to the standard of getting redemptions filled.
 
walter5o9 said:
Honestly, I hate event worn jersey/patch cards - to me these are just another way of saying manufactured patch. Id rather there not be a jersey per box and have the real deal. If there was a real jersey/Patch (NHL) Hischier/Nolan autograph /99 out of a high end leaf product. Now Im intrigued....
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If the jersey cards on current swatches 2005 and up were real you wouldn't be able to afford the box price.
 
SNobles said:
I must say it is getting old when I am constantly told what I am posting is wrong or not the most important question.

Would I like to have a choice? Yes. I loved when multiple companies had a license to produce hockey cards. Panini cards are some of my favorites from recent years and Pacific made some amazing cards back in the 2000's.

I am not a UD supporter by any means and I do not agree with their exclusives either. However, they are not coming on here (good or bad) and telling me they did it for me. They did it for themselves and their business.

I give you full marks for doing something to better your business but it has not and is not helping the collector. You speak of people having a choice, you have taken that away from so many collectors who wanted NHL/NHLPA licensed autographed cards of your exclusive signers. Yes, UD did the same with their exclusive signers but (at least at this time) they are the only ones that can have the team names and logos on them.

Further to your point about trying to end exclusives and reaching out to UD via email, why would they even consider responding to you when you are willing to post these emails on the open forum like this?

I would love to see the NHLPA go back to multiple licensed companies but until that happens, exclusives autograph players for non-licensed companies will never help the collectors, the shop owners trying to sell products or the hobby in general in my opinion.
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I only posted so that you guys could see behind the curtain what is really happening...


Collectors deserve to know "the truth"...

I hope you know I don't discredit your opinion, however I think (in this case) you were asking a leading question which didn't fully the issues..

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.. I am a business and do act in Leaf's interest, but that interest and collector's long term interests don't have to be mutually exclusive.

BG


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oilersareback said:
ya man, not having the first 2 picks is going to be like an NHL lockout year. Nobody is going to be buying UD product.
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As I said earlier in this thread, if they are even half-brain smart 2012-13 will be the model for them, and they made some products that were really incredible using veteran content.
 
RGM81 said:
As I said earlier in this thread, if they are even half-brain smart 2012-13 will be the model for them, and they made some products that were really incredible using veteran content.
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This is what they should do but can they afford to do it? They have been lowering veteran content for several years and relied on rookies. But was that a conscious choice or did they have to because they couldn't afford it and it is just luck in that Mcdavid and Matthews carried products? We will have a better understanding this year if they still skimp on veteran content.
 
If Topps ever lands a limited Hockey licence, it would make a ton of sense to make Leaf a big offer to acquire them. Between having a few key RC locked up over the next couple of years and all the vintage stuff it would really help them with a relaunch. I'm not suggesting Leaf is trying to sell, but if I owned Leaf I would listen. Who knows, perhaps a bidding war between UD and Topps .

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As a Devils fan, this is a complete and utter disaster.

Not being able to chase quality autographed cards of NJ's #1 pick, be it Patrick or Hischier is definitely a low blow.

We were essentially deprived of Jack Eichel's rookie year cards, and it is funny to see that an Eichel YG, even after the over-saturation from extra ePack stock, still outsells most Leaf Eichel autographs.

I am not familiar with all of the ins and outs of the business, but why Leaf would hold the hobby hostage with the Eichel exclusive and then use sticker autographs on almost every card makes zero sense.

One can admire the "good fight" that Leaf is putting up against the monopoly that UD holds, but I don't think perception is reality. We see a lot of enthusiasm around leaf releases in threads, but nobody appears to be backing that up where it counts.

In many cases, there is better design work being done by dedicated collectors, and Leaf, like ITG before them, has done little to adapt, clinging to the same vintage content and tired formats that a pocket of collectors enjoy.

If you want to "bring down UD", and are upset with the state of the hobby, then stick it to them. Pay attention to what collectors are looking for. Find something unique that you can offer, even without a license. People need to be enticed to say "I am going to buy Leaf instead of UD", and nothing that has been done to date seems to have worked.

I believe that UD had the perfect response to Leaf's Eichel exclusive with his YG and Canvas YG's. The photos they used created two absolutely iconic cards that every collector should own, and the fact that these unsigned, licensed cards outsell low numbered, unlicensed signed cards should sound huge alarm bells.

If UD needs to be held to a higher standard as the big bad wolf of the industry, then so does the company that now holds exclusives with not only Eichel, but the top two picks of this year's draft, regardless of whether they are named Matthews, McDavid or Patrick and Hischier.

There is a huge opportunity here for Leaf, and it is time to do it right, or not at all.
 
I think we all can agree that exclusives are terrible for the hobby, there is no doubt in anyone's mind.

That being said however, everyone seems to be painting Leaf as the "bad guy" in this situation, but they are really only playing the game by the rules Upper Deck has already set. UD has had exclusives on many star players for years and years, not to mention their exclusives for hot rookies like McDavid and Matthews. And guess why they did it? To ensure their company thrives over their competition. How is that any different than Leaf signing the 2 top rookie prospects for next year?

I'd love to see Leaf able to put out autographed cards of Orr or Gretzky combined with the high quality memorabilia they are known for. But it's not going to happen. The best forward and best defenseman ever are signed to exclusives with UD. When was the last time an Orr auto/memorabilia card was even made, over a decade ago?

Exclusives don't help the hobby, period, no one will disagree. Leaf is fighting a tough battle being unlicensed but do what they can. Most complain about airbrushing or jersey photos, but it's all they are LEGALLY able to do. Now they adopt an "exclusive" tactic that UD quite frankly perfected years ago and they are trashed for it? Just seems a bit hypocritical to me to bash them for it and not UD too, even though it does hurt the collector. If Leaf doesn't take drastic steps like this would they even be around as an option for collectors in years to come? Just my opinion, but UD is just as guilty, if not more so given how long they have had exclusives.
 
MGiuseffi1969 said:
If Topps ever lands a limited Hockey licence, it would make a ton of sense to make Leaf a big offer to acquire them. Between having a few key RC locked up over the next couple of years and all the vintage stuff it would really help them with a relaunch. I'm not suggesting Leaf is trying to sell, but if I owned Leaf I would listen. Who knows, perhaps a bidding war between UD and Topps .

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I'm with you pal. I know you and I are LONG time baseball fans, collectors, and HUGE proponents of Topps. Great input Mike! (and the Mets own NYC now, Yankees stink! ;) )
 
NJDEVILS30 said:
Not being able to chase quality autographed cards of NJ's #1 pick, be it Patrick or Hischier is definitely a low blow.
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This didn't really hit me until I put myself in your shoes.

The ONLY reason I am back in the hobby after several years of taking all my disposable income and putting it towards comics is because the Leafs drafted a couple franchise players like Matthews and Marner. My excitement level was/is through the roof.

I didn't even LOOK at a card for probably 3-4 years.

If I came back, and saw that I wasn't going to be able to grab licensed Matthews cards I would have stayed away entirely (and been ridiculously disappointed).

Sorry Devils/Flyers fans, I feel ya.
 
LeafCeo said:
I figured I'd pipe in with a few facts, just in case anyone even cares about the facts:

1> I approached Jason Masherah (President of UD), Mike Phillips (VP Hobby Sales) and Chris Carlin (you know Chris) in Hawaii last year. I told them I was done signing exclusives if they would stop. Despite their continued contention that I am out of line for doing exclusives and they are not, I steadfastly stayed the course...

IF YOU DON'T DO ANY MORE EXCLUSIVES, WE WONT EITHER AND COLLECTORS WILL WIN.

2> Upper Deck immediately proceeded to sign Auston Matthews. We did not sign anyone, despite our gut instinct to sign Laine and Marner, we did not sign anyone. We tried to stay the course... NO EXCLUSIVES!

3> Then, Upper Deck signs PATRICK ROY exclusive. This is the same Patrick Roy that has been a key figure in "In the Game" products since day one. Still, Leaf has not signed ANY EXCLUSIVES....

4> Upper Deck went after our CHL license. We had an opportunity to match, but we do not have long term confidence in that category, so we let it go....

THIS IS UD GOING AFTER THREE EXCLUSIVE DEALS, WHILE WE WAITED A FULL YEAR AND DIDNT SIGN A SINGLE EXCLUSIVE DEAL (Nolan Patrick was already locked up right around the time of Eichel, just in case you are thinking we did sign Patrick)...

We did "the right thing" and sat on the sideline and tried to have a non exclusive atmosphere... During the last 24 months, I have reached out to Upper Deck at least 10 times... I have offered a sit down to stop the madness.

Upper Deck does not care and will not care until the consumer makes them care.

They have much bigger issues at the moment. $97 million in unpaid taxes (which an article released based on court documents yesterday actually estimate could really be $160 million or more)....

I still believe UD will eventually realize that this is not helping the consumer and will sit down....

But, make no mistake, NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNLESS IT IS FORCED TO CHANGE.

I am confident and certain that the exclusives HAVE TO STOP. I am ready and willing to sit down right now. Heck, I would offer to have the meeting in front of a ballroom full of collectors at the Fall Expo (lol)....

I don't expect everyone to like this..... BUT, competition will pay off long term for all collectors whether you buy UD, Leaf or Both.... regardless, Leaf pushing UD to do and be better is a positive thing! (and for that matter, UD pushing us makes us better also!!!)...

Hopefully, this makes some sense.... I never hide on stuff like this.

Brian Gray
CEO, Leaf

P.S.- I am happy to answer any questions you may have in this thread as well, since I'm here.... (and we encourage our competition to join the forum and answer your questions candidly and honestly as well....)
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A business man trying to survive in a sea of sharks...it's called capitalism...and I think you're doing a good job trying to find your spot in this hobby, Brian. And I also like how you are accessible... like another Brian is. I've never heard anyone from Upper Deck address collectors on forums like the way you do. :hi5:

So should Brian just give up and fold the company because Upper Deck has a monopoly on a license? "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Sorry...had to reference a great line in the movie "Animal House". Brian is trying to keep his business going and if "some" collectors don't like it, well, that's their prerogative. Haters will hate. It seems he has reached out to Upper Deck, but they don't want anything to do with him. So he signs some exclusives himself? Good for him! A bit hypocritical to me to bash Leaf for doing exactly what Upper Deck is doing. :loseit:

I like to give all card companies a shot and have been purchasing cards according to my tastes. Upper Deck for my Wild players, Gaborik, and Gretzky....Leaf and President's Choice for vintage player game-used and Gaborik. I like all the card companies (and it shows when I post my Show and Tells). If the cards are nice, I'll buy the ones I like. I am not a Licensed RC collector, so the exclusive thing doesn't bother me. Every collector is different and will collect what they like. Just be happy there are choices out there and not a total card monopoly. Competition makes all parties better. If you don't get better, you will definitely not survive.

End of rant. I'll buy what I want...and so should everyone else.

Thanks! :beer:

--Curt
 
You cannot say that exclusives are bad, then go out and sign players to exclusives.

No matter how you try to spin it, or what you feel are valid reasons for doing it, it doesn't matter, it merely makes you hypocritical at best.
 
collectors don't win at all. brian gray is just a businessman and does whats best for his business...... hes not new to signing exclusives, hes been doing it way back in his days of razor....... its business ..hes competing for mine and yours dollar , that's what the bottom line comes down too
besides the hockey players that you know of hes done it with baseball
and the power of the internet gave this

15 0f the top 17 prospects of their time

1. Tim Beckham, Tampa Bay Rays

2. Pedro Alvarez, Pittsburgh Pirates

3. Eric Hosmer, Kansas City Royals

4. Brian Matusz, Baltimore Orioles

6. Kyle Skipworth, Florida Marlins

7. Yonder Alonso, Cincinnati Reds

9. Aaron Crow, Washington Nationals

10. Jason Castro, Houston Astros

11. Justin Smoak, Texas Rangers

12. Jemile Weeks, Oakland A’s

13. Brett Wallace, St. Louis Cardinals

14. Aaron Hicks, Minnesota Twins

15. Ethan Martin, Los Angeles Dodgers

16. Brett Lawrie , Milwaukee Brewers

17. David Cooper, Toronto Blue Jays



cant blame a businessman trying to get your dollar and you can bet that brian and his leaf gang will be out buying licensed upperdeck cards and putiing a leaf stickered auto of the player at a cost to the collector........ see business man


personally I limit myself to series 1 , 2 ,spa and cup but now it looks like just series 1 and 2 and that's it... Its time to take a break from this hobby and wait the exclusive out

I tried leaf before and its a decent product but to me it looks the same year in year out but when I sold my itg leaf product on ebay 80 percent sold to HI members

I can see now that next year this time we will have another thread about another autograph exclusives

hey brian or upperdeck head to Windsor and bring paperwork so you can get an autograph exclusives with the next up and coming stars of tomorrow at the memorial cup, heck theres even nhl veterans there that you can get to an exclusive with as well
 
I spend quite a few USD $$$$ on hockey each year...and have done so for more years than I would care to admit. It all goes to UD now. Leaf has absolutely no value to me as a collector...I was at the EXPO a few weeks ago and most dealers and most collectors only want to see UD stuff.
 
TanguayFan said:
You cannot say that exclusives are bad, then go out and sign players to exclusives.

No matter how you try to spin it, or what you feel are valid reasons for doing it, it doesn't matter, it merely makes you hypocritical at best.
Click to expand...

Seriously. This is "do as I say, not as I do" at its' finest and I hope you guys at Leaf are fully aware of the bad taste in our mouths that a lot of us are getting
 

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